trj
Well-Known Member
Yeah, he may have stepped down, but he was helped by a little push on the back by Bowlsby.
Jon Miller's Instant Reaction of ISU
- Thread starter Xerxes
- Start date
Yeah, he may have stepped down, but he was helped by a little push on the back by Bowlsby.
I like your post and I respect your passion. But in hindsight, I don't think anyone really thought Iowa would win the West (maybe people on this board did, which is what you said, so that's totally fair). And maybe somebody picked us as an outsider for the playoff with our easy schedule. But really? Did anyone really think Iowa could find a way into the 4 team playoff?
I've thought about the game and this team a lot since the game yesterday, as we all have. Ultimately, I think that football is really a simple game and amidst all kinds of analysis and emotional reactions, Iowa's performance can be broken down in a less depressing way.
For Iowa to be as good as we all want, they need a great tailback. Regardless of how we think the OL is playing, this Iowa regime will give us anywhere from a solid to a great offensive line. And for an Iowa offensive scheme that never has and never will throw the football with any proficiency, we need a great running back or set of backs (2) to carry the offense. Shonn Greene could certainly do it. Albert Young was really pretty darn good. Fred Russell and Jermelle Lewis had some great years (on great teams). I honestly think Leshun Daniels could be that type of guy. But call it AIRBHG or whatever, call it recruiting, call it depth chart decisions, but we don't have that guy. If we're going to be a predictable power offense we better have a beast carrying the rock. Mark Weisman isn't that guy, not to bash him though, because he's not that bad and he plays hard.
Look around the country and you see some impressive looking back carrying the ball. Iowa doesn't have it. We could of had Melvin Gordon, Greg Garmon, or Mika'il McCall. But we don't. And say whatever you want about passing tactics, play calling... none of us really know what the coaches are thinking or how they're game planning so that's not going to lead anywhere.
Under ferentz and his OCs, when we can't run the ball, our offense isn't going anywhere (in fairness, that's true for a ton of teams at most levels of football). And right now we can't run the ball. I think that if the hawks had an elite RB, we'd all be praising Rudock and our play action game, how good the OL looked...
Seth53
Well-Known Member
Seriously, I'll add one more tidbit which speaks volumes on the state of the Iowa program.
I had to listen to the game....
When Koehn made the 44 yd FG, the reaction from Dolph/EddyP was all-telling.
First, they were all excited "Iowa made a FG" ,and secondly, they were giving it the Bronx cheer.
You could almost hear the back slapping and see the glad-handing.
This being from our two biggest homers. Says a lot to me.
I had to listen to the game....
When Koehn made the 44 yd FG, the reaction from Dolph/EddyP was all-telling.
First, they were all excited "Iowa made a FG" ,and secondly, they were giving it the Bronx cheer.
You could almost hear the back slapping and see the glad-handing.
This being from our two biggest homers. Says a lot to me.
Here's another little tidbit that speaks volumes to the state of the program. Sam Richardson said that the gameplan was to get the ball to the outside to get away from Iowa's strength. They felt they had a speed advantage on Iowa. Without their best playmaker, they went into a game thinking they had the speed advantage over Iowa. When that's the case, your program needs wholesale changes.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Many outside of of this board were picking Iowa, and if not 1st, then in a tight race with either Wisconsin or Nebraska. It wasn't just homer Iowa fans thinking this. I still say we have the talent to do so, it is a matter if the coaches can actually put them in a position to win games.
Year / avg. rushing yds per attempt / avg. yds per reception
2004 2.0 12.1
2005 4.8 12.6
2006 4.3 12.6
2007 3.5 11.5
2008 4.8 12.6
2009 3.3 13.6
2010 4.3 13.5
2011 3.9 12.7
_______________ G. Davis arrival
2012 3.7 10.1
2013 4.2 12.0
2014 3.6 9.0
I think I'll go with the Davis offensive schemes and play calling as the major culprit. If you buy the fact the teams are loading up against the run (explains the rushing yd avg drop off?) then the passing game should offer up opportunities but that is not happening thus my second choice for limiting our success would then fall on Rudock. I don't believe our talent on the offensive side had digressed. It's much the same group with more experience......likely improved at the WR position.
2004 2.0 12.1
2005 4.8 12.6
2006 4.3 12.6
2007 3.5 11.5
2008 4.8 12.6
2009 3.3 13.6
2010 4.3 13.5
2011 3.9 12.7
_______________ G. Davis arrival
2012 3.7 10.1
2013 4.2 12.0
2014 3.6 9.0
I think I'll go with the Davis offensive schemes and play calling as the major culprit. If you buy the fact the teams are loading up against the run (explains the rushing yd avg drop off?) then the passing game should offer up opportunities but that is not happening thus my second choice for limiting our success would then fall on Rudock. I don't believe our talent on the offensive side had digressed. It's much the same group with more experience......likely improved at the WR position.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
The talent got thin Hayden's last two years, no doubt. But the "cupboard being bare" is an exaggeration. "A program that was irrelevant.." is just plain ridiculous. Everything Hayden built over 20 years didn't just disappear.
Is it possible that, with KF's propensity for control that CJ and Daniels are on the bench and Powell et. al. aren't getting touches because they are unbroken mustangs that don't bend absolutely to the coach's will?
Maybe CJ checks to high reward plays that are not what Kirk prescribes as options. Maybe he throws too many TD pass attempts in oractice and Kirk thinks he's too flashy. Maybe Daniels and Canzeri celebrate too much afyer big plays. Maybe Kirk thinks that exuberance shows disrespect for his workmanlike attitude.
Maybe CJ checks to high reward plays that are not what Kirk prescribes as options. Maybe he throws too many TD pass attempts in oractice and Kirk thinks he's too flashy. Maybe Daniels and Canzeri celebrate too much afyer big plays. Maybe Kirk thinks that exuberance shows disrespect for his workmanlike attitude.
DJI9424
Well-Known Member
We need an intervention - KF lost touch with the reality of college football years ago (about the same time his contract was extended for 10 years). He is doing a disservice to his team by continuing to employ the same failed offensive scheme year after year.
But in his mind nothing needs to change; as long as we adhere to a military-like code of honor, all is right with the state of Iowa football. Sure, there will be setbacks and occasional outright failure but that's no reason to change because exciting, entertaining, and competitive football is not the goal; rather, his goal is honor, code, loyalty and nobody is allowed to buck the chain of command. General KF has given his team their orders and that's all there is to it, further discussion is not requested and will not be tolerated. Anyone doing so will be quickly banished from the field of play. And if doing so causes the team to lose more battles than they should, then so be it because it is more important to teach the team about honor, code, and loyalty than to have success on the field.
But in his mind nothing needs to change; as long as we adhere to a military-like code of honor, all is right with the state of Iowa football. Sure, there will be setbacks and occasional outright failure but that's no reason to change because exciting, entertaining, and competitive football is not the goal; rather, his goal is honor, code, loyalty and nobody is allowed to buck the chain of command. General KF has given his team their orders and that's all there is to it, further discussion is not requested and will not be tolerated. Anyone doing so will be quickly banished from the field of play. And if doing so causes the team to lose more battles than they should, then so be it because it is more important to teach the team about honor, code, and loyalty than to have success on the field.
TychoBrahe
Well-Known Member
About Hayden: after 1991, Iowa was not nearly as good as in the prior decade. 1995-1997 were a product of a sudden riches of talent--Dwight, Banks, Shaw, others--but the program was in a slow decline. Hayden admitted that he was going to retire before those years, but seeing Timmy D and company, he just had to coach them. But in 1998-1999, and I was at those games, Iowa was terrible. Not just bad, but terrible. In 1999, when KF took over, we were by a mile the worst team in the Big 10. We had players who would not start on MAC teams.
When KF got rolling, it was through things that were newer at the time--zone blocking schemes, disciplined NFL-style offenses, conditioning by Chris Doyle--and those things, along with superior asst coaches like Joe Philbin, made us a power for about 5 years. But then everyone caught up. And now, since we STILL run kind of the same schemes, we've fallen behind. I watched the USC-BC game last night, and watching BC I thought, 'They're simply playing a different game than we are!'
And they WERE. A faster, better game on offense. Unpredictable. Misdirection. Different formations. And USC--and you can't tell me BC has better athletes than USC--simply could not stop them. I'll tell you one thing--what BC was running was NOT an NFL-style offense. We are outdated, and we can't count on superior execution to win games any longer. We need to look MORE like BC and less like the Baltimore Ravens.
When KF got rolling, it was through things that were newer at the time--zone blocking schemes, disciplined NFL-style offenses, conditioning by Chris Doyle--and those things, along with superior asst coaches like Joe Philbin, made us a power for about 5 years. But then everyone caught up. And now, since we STILL run kind of the same schemes, we've fallen behind. I watched the USC-BC game last night, and watching BC I thought, 'They're simply playing a different game than we are!'
And they WERE. A faster, better game on offense. Unpredictable. Misdirection. Different formations. And USC--and you can't tell me BC has better athletes than USC--simply could not stop them. I'll tell you one thing--what BC was running was NOT an NFL-style offense. We are outdated, and we can't count on superior execution to win games any longer. We need to look MORE like BC and less like the Baltimore Ravens.
NCHawker
Well-Known Member
If history is any guide, we can stand scream from the mountain tops and KF isn't gong to change. He'll just say, when asked why this or that, that he did what he did because he thinks it gives them the best chance to win.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
I agree with much that's been said, but still feel the culprit is our "offensive" scheme.
But for those who think KF doesn't think changes are needed, my guess? We'll see plenty this week.
I'm pretty sure we'll see a QB change. Ditto at RB, with carries being re-distributed.
I also think our biggest problems on D aren't "scheme" as much as "youth". Saying that, We may see minor personnel changes or different groupings.
Now...if the above happens and nothing changes (in terms of "success"), what then?
But for those who think KF doesn't think changes are needed, my guess? We'll see plenty this week.
I'm pretty sure we'll see a QB change. Ditto at RB, with carries being re-distributed.
I also think our biggest problems on D aren't "scheme" as much as "youth". Saying that, We may see minor personnel changes or different groupings.
Now...if the above happens and nothing changes (in terms of "success"), what then?
TychoBrahe
Well-Known Member
Miller talks about CJ maybe not being a good practice QB. I remember the same talk in 2008 when it came to JC vs Stanzi. JC was the all-world practice guy, the guy who had a 'better handle on the offense' as KF famously said after the Pitt loss that year. But we all know how that season turned out. Stanzi was a 'gamer', and he was the guy who won 3 bowl games for us, and played (well, was on a team) in the NFL. I think most of us just want to see if Beatherd is the same kind of 'gamer'. And KF had his chance later in the game yesterday. But he opted for the better practice QB. Of course, you don't win games in practice.
(And please, everyone, resist the obvious Allen Iverson reference. Actually, I think it's probably time for a riff on Jim Mora here: "I just hope we win another GAME!")
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
What happens if we see numerous changes (including QB) and things DON'T improve? That's my worry. Actually, my BIGGEST worry is that maybe...just MAYbe..our OL isn't as good as we hear from guys on BTN, practice reports, etc.
This past week I said Iowa football has been what we saw yesterday for the past 5 or 6 years under KF and nobody should be surprised. I also stated while the Hawks are boring to watch I still look forward to the following Saturday and can't wait to watch them play their next game.
Well, yesterday changed that for me.
Sadly I was laughing so hard at the end of yesterdays game I almost fell off the chair I was sitting in. Next Saturday doesn't mean anything to me and that's the first time I can remember feeling this way.
Part of that could be because I've been living outside of Iowa for 25 years now. While I've been watching on TV or listening on radio to Hawkeye sports since about 1975, I'm not as invested living out of state. I live in St. Louis now and all I hear about is the University of Missouri. I've slowly been coming around to being a fan. Our kids have grown up with Mizzou and I'll just say it as it is. THE MIZZOU FOOTBALL TEAM IS FUN TO WATCH WIN OR LOSE.
With what I said above, it wasn't always this way under Gary Pinkel. He, like KF, is or should I say was a conservative type of offensive coach. He saw the writing on the wall though and started recruiting faster more explosive athletes. And he hired offensive coordinators that matched a faster more exciting game. The result is, win or lose, a more up tempo and fun style of football. And in most cases Mizzou is doing very well.
The look on KF's face when he was given the TO and the ISU kicker missed the kick was priceless. KF tried to get cute and call the TO at the very, very last split second. It cost him a chance for OT which likely wouldn't have turned out good for Iowa anyway.
Jon's podcast was right on yesterday. He as well as Rob Howe said the offense is broken. I'm not saying I know what they were really trying to say but let's face it. The 1970's called and told KF they want their offensive style back because he's making the it look bad.
If KF wants to be remembered like Hayden Fry, it'd be wise of him to very seriously look at retiring at years end. He's not going to change this late in his life and Barta has no guts to call him on it. So Kirk, man up and do the right thing!
Goodbye for the rest of the fall and will be looking forward to Iowa basketball. Love Fran and the type of basketball he brought to Iowa.
Well, yesterday changed that for me.
Sadly I was laughing so hard at the end of yesterdays game I almost fell off the chair I was sitting in. Next Saturday doesn't mean anything to me and that's the first time I can remember feeling this way.
Part of that could be because I've been living outside of Iowa for 25 years now. While I've been watching on TV or listening on radio to Hawkeye sports since about 1975, I'm not as invested living out of state. I live in St. Louis now and all I hear about is the University of Missouri. I've slowly been coming around to being a fan. Our kids have grown up with Mizzou and I'll just say it as it is. THE MIZZOU FOOTBALL TEAM IS FUN TO WATCH WIN OR LOSE.
With what I said above, it wasn't always this way under Gary Pinkel. He, like KF, is or should I say was a conservative type of offensive coach. He saw the writing on the wall though and started recruiting faster more explosive athletes. And he hired offensive coordinators that matched a faster more exciting game. The result is, win or lose, a more up tempo and fun style of football. And in most cases Mizzou is doing very well.
The look on KF's face when he was given the TO and the ISU kicker missed the kick was priceless. KF tried to get cute and call the TO at the very, very last split second. It cost him a chance for OT which likely wouldn't have turned out good for Iowa anyway.
Jon's podcast was right on yesterday. He as well as Rob Howe said the offense is broken. I'm not saying I know what they were really trying to say but let's face it. The 1970's called and told KF they want their offensive style back because he's making the it look bad.
If KF wants to be remembered like Hayden Fry, it'd be wise of him to very seriously look at retiring at years end. He's not going to change this late in his life and Barta has no guts to call him on it. So Kirk, man up and do the right thing!
Goodbye for the rest of the fall and will be looking forward to Iowa basketball. Love Fran and the type of basketball he brought to Iowa.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
Bob, if CJ is not an improvement over JR (meaning, is able to throw deep to open up the box to help our running game and minimize his mistakes; there will be some) then at least we'll know. We go back to JR and KF and GD need to figure a way to open up running lanes; perhaps sh*tcanning the prostyle and going spread. I think JR could thrive in a spread offense. But one thing is as certain as death and taxes, and that is if we do NOT see what CJ can do for an entire game, then we won't ever know!
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
My worry isn't necessarily JUST QB. I think the OL is not exactly stellar. We CAN'T run to the right, despite the fact we continue to try it. Left isn't much better. Middle is fine when it's 3rd and 1. Usually.
I coulnd't "see" the whole field on TV. Was JR really missing that many open receivers? It sure looked like most ISU sacks were "coverage" vs. "pressure". But again, I can only see what ESPN and a big screen allow.
TychoBrahe
Well-Known Member
I'd also say that if our OL isn't as good as we think, that a change in QB or scheme is indeed what we need. I saw Rudock run the option yesterday for a key 1st down. Will we ever see it again? Will we ever see the jet-fly sweep again?
Isn't CJ the more mobile QB? If the OL sucks, wouldn't we want the mobile gunslinger in there, as opposed to the NFL-style pocket passer? If the OL is bad, why are we trying to run the ball with predictable plays? Don't you mask a talent gap by going to more misdirection schemes and less predictability?
If the OL is subpar, we are definitely not running the kind of offense we need to.
Isn't CJ the more mobile QB? If the OL sucks, wouldn't we want the mobile gunslinger in there, as opposed to the NFL-style pocket passer? If the OL is bad, why are we trying to run the ball with predictable plays? Don't you mask a talent gap by going to more misdirection schemes and less predictability?
If the OL is subpar, we are definitely not running the kind of offense we need to.
STILLBUSTER
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the truth I (and many others) have been speaking for 6 - 8 years!
As I've recounted numerous times, the beginning of the end of my KirkFer fan club membership began at Pitt, 2008. From the upper deck of Heinz Field, I watched his idiocy forfeit the game in the 2nd half. I knew, then and there, his coaching ability -- not x's & o's -- his coaching, was suspect. He's done NOTHING since that time to change my mind, only reinforce it, with every inexplicable strategy and every risk-averse decision and every square-peg / round hole personnel decision and every mis-managed stretch of every game, ultimately resulting in 1 or 2 inexcusable losses year after year.
I've been questioning my season ticket renewal since the 2010 nightmare but always broke down and begrudgingly bought in "for one more season to see how it goes". Not to mention, my wife liked going and, knowing what lemmings Iowa fans are, I didn't want to forfeit my place come the day this regime is gone and I could look forward to competitive, entertaining, play-to-win football. Yesterday, as we left Kinnick, I told her enough is enough and that I REALLY don't want to return until he, or that G.D. "offensive" coordinator, no longer walk the sidelines. It's simply no fun; actually it is quite miserable watching such terribly underachieving, uninspired, unentertaining football.
We have a big group coming in for Homecoming but several don't have tickets. We'll recommend they don't bother and plan to give ours away to someone who's not an Iowa fan but has always wanted to attend a "big-time" college football game. We can all go watch the game together somewhere on the ped mall and have a far better time. I plan to hit "the marketplace" to sell the other 3 games. The few hundred dollars will help pay for the trip to see the bball team play at Madison Square Garden. At least that's something related to Iowa sports I'm actually excited to see because, while I'm reserved in expecting wins, I'm confident it will be a competitive, competent performance that is coached with the intent to win.
GO HAWKS! Bench Jake Rudock and Damon Bullock. Fire that G.d. Gerg D. KirkFer ... please retire.
As I've recounted numerous times, the beginning of the end of my KirkFer fan club membership began at Pitt, 2008. From the upper deck of Heinz Field, I watched his idiocy forfeit the game in the 2nd half. I knew, then and there, his coaching ability -- not x's & o's -- his coaching, was suspect. He's done NOTHING since that time to change my mind, only reinforce it, with every inexplicable strategy and every risk-averse decision and every square-peg / round hole personnel decision and every mis-managed stretch of every game, ultimately resulting in 1 or 2 inexcusable losses year after year.
I've been questioning my season ticket renewal since the 2010 nightmare but always broke down and begrudgingly bought in "for one more season to see how it goes". Not to mention, my wife liked going and, knowing what lemmings Iowa fans are, I didn't want to forfeit my place come the day this regime is gone and I could look forward to competitive, entertaining, play-to-win football. Yesterday, as we left Kinnick, I told her enough is enough and that I REALLY don't want to return until he, or that G.D. "offensive" coordinator, no longer walk the sidelines. It's simply no fun; actually it is quite miserable watching such terribly underachieving, uninspired, unentertaining football.
We have a big group coming in for Homecoming but several don't have tickets. We'll recommend they don't bother and plan to give ours away to someone who's not an Iowa fan but has always wanted to attend a "big-time" college football game. We can all go watch the game together somewhere on the ped mall and have a far better time. I plan to hit "the marketplace" to sell the other 3 games. The few hundred dollars will help pay for the trip to see the bball team play at Madison Square Garden. At least that's something related to Iowa sports I'm actually excited to see because, while I'm reserved in expecting wins, I'm confident it will be a competitive, competent performance that is coached with the intent to win.
GO HAWKS! Bench Jake Rudock and Damon Bullock. Fire that G.d. Gerg D. KirkFer ... please retire.
