Joe Wieskamp

lightning1 said:
And no, I have not seen Garza in person. The farthest east I got was Akron, OH for AAU.
And I might very well be wrong about Garza. I wasn't impressed with Maish's videos but after seeing him in person, I changed my mind. I think he could be a Devyn Marble type.
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You are correct, evaluating a 2 min highlight vs in person just isn't a good comparison. As you said you mind was changed watching Dailey in persons.

I guess my issue has always been that you admit you change your mind when seeing someone in person, yet you think you know more about Garza from a highlight video over P5 coaches who have been scouting him for a long time. You make no allowance at all that you simply don't have the information that the other coaches have and you act like there isn't a chance this kid could be good, and they are all wrong and you are right with roughly 1/100th of the information they have to properly evaluate the kid.
 
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deanvogs said:
You are correct, evaluating a 2 min highlight vs in person just isn't a good comparison. As you said you mind was changed watching Dailey in persons.

I guess my issue has always been that you admit you change your mind when seeing someone in person, yet you think you know more about Garza from a highlight video over P5 coaches who have been scouting him for a long time. You make no allowance at all that you simply don't have the information that the other coaches have and you act like there isn't a chance this kid could be good, and they are all wrong and you are right with roughly 1/100th of the information they have to properly evaluate the kid.
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I'm not afraid to express my opinion. And I do that with the knowledge that I have as good a chance as being right as any college coach or recruiting service. Im not scared to put my brutally honest opinion out there.
As far as Maish goes, my first impression might prove true. He's a lot more smooth in person than what showed on his recruiting videos. That's only a small portion of what goes into it. Mental toughness, aggressiveness and BB IQ are all part of it. That remains to be seen.
 
I also make my evaluations and opinions with the goal of winning a BIG title in mind. That's what every BIG coach should be recruiting for.
Would Garza be a great recruit for North Dakota? Yes! And if I was a fan of that program, that would be my opinion.
 
I thought 4 stars meant you can contribute right away. I guess you can make a case that Jok contributed right away, but to the point of proving the recruiting services wrong? Jok didnt look like a 4 star player until his junior year really.
 
PCHawk said:
I thought 4 stars meant you can contribute right away. I guess you can make a case that Jok contributed right away, but to the point of proving the recruiting services wrong? Jok didnt look like a 4 star player until his junior year really.
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I don't know how the services equate their star ratings to expected playing time. It usually has more to do with depth in front of an incoming FR. We were not in a position where we had to start him right away. If Jok was a FR like Marble was, after Lickliter, do you have any doubt that he starts? I don't.
 
lightning1 said:
I don't know how the services equate their star ratings to expected playing time. It usually has more to do with depth in front of an incoming FR. We were not in a position where we had to start him right away. If Jok was a FR like Marble was, after Lickliter, do you have any doubt that he starts? I don't.
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No doubt he does. I read an article one that talked about how the rankings work. I agree it's pretty dumb when how much a guy plays has a lot to do with who's in front of him.
 
I can't say I totally disagree with Lightning here.

I said it in another thread and I think it fell on deaf ears. Big men especially the center types are probably the most likely position to be busts compared to their recruiting rankings/ offer lists.

And go check rivals or some other recruiting service in the 50-150 range (4 Star) for basketball recruits for the last few years. These guys are in no way can't miss prospects. My guess is you will not know more names then you know.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I can't say I totally disagree with Lightning here.

I said it in another thread and I think it fell on deaf ears. Big men especially the center types are probably the most likely position to be busts compared to their recruiting rankings/ offer lists.

And go check rivals or some other recruiting service in the 50-150 range (4 Star) for basketball recruits for the last few years. These guys are in no way can't miss prospects. My guess is you will not know more names then you know.
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I would say the C position has cost more NBA executives sleepless nights, not to mention their jobs! Lots of draft busts at that position.
 
lightning1 said:
I

I'm not afraid to express my opinion. And I do that with the knowledge that I have as good a chance as being right as any college coach or recruiting service. Im not scared to put my brutally honest opinion out there.
As far as Maish goes, my first impression might prove true. He's a lot more smooth in person than what showed on his recruiting videos. That's only a small portion of what goes into it. Mental toughness, aggressiveness and BB IQ are all part of it. That remains to be seen.
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I do have to give you props for not being afraid to state your opinion, that's for sure. They might be wrong a lot of times but at least you're not shy in expressing them.

Garza can shoot, he's a wide-body. His athleticism doesn't jump off the table at you that'st true, but I think Fran, Rick Pitino and other big-time coaches know what they're doing.
 
Tierney said:
Marble and White were both pretty limited shooting when they came to Iowa. I heard plenty of comments of the experts saying Marble was pretty limited. Jok was injured or recovering from injury. I think White did grow a couple of inches after committing to Iowa. They all deserved their three star rankings when they came to Iowa. That's not to say they weren't good players. There are lots of three star recruits that are great players, or undervalued for a variety of reasons. I see Garza as a Woodbury type player that can shoot. That sounds pretty good to me. Woodbury is a good athlete for being seven foot.
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What all of the "experts" didn't mention is that Marble was young for his grade. He currently is only 23 years old (will turn 24 in late September). When he graduated from Iowa he had turned 21 just before the basketball season started. A lot of the reason Marble was "limited" was due to his age and the fact that he was still growing in high school. Before a young man turns 20, a lot can happen physically. Marble is a perfect example.
 
Knight78 said:
What all of the "experts" didn't mention is that Marble was young for his grade. He currently is only 23 years old (will turn 24 in late September). When he graduated from Iowa he had turned 21 just before the basketball season started. A lot of the reason Marble was "limited" was due to his age and the fact that he was still growing in high school. Before a young man turns 20, a lot can happen physically. Marble is a perfect example.
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I'm sure Marble was undervalued because of how young he was, but you never know for sure how a year of added maturity will effect a player. There have been a lot of players that were highly valued in tenth grade that weren't that highly considered as junior or seniors. If Marble hadn't committed to Lickliter, it will never be known if Fran would of tried to recruit him or not. He definitely turned out to be a good player for Iowa.
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
I do have to give you props for not being afraid to state your opinion, that's for sure. They might be wrong a lot of times but at least you're not shy in expressing them.

Garza can shoot, he's a wide-body. His athleticism doesn't jump off the table at you that'st true, but I think Fran, Rick Pitino and other big-time coaches know what they're doing.
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Yeah. They never miss on a recruit. They have never given a scholarship to a player that didn't pan out. Nothing but doule/double averages from all 13 ships, all the time.
 
lightning1 said:
Yeah. They never miss on a recruit. They have never given a scholarship to a player that didn't pan out. Nothing but doule/double averages from all 13 ships, all the time.
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I think the point is Lightning, people are going to believe Pitino, Fran, Brey, Collins, Miles, Stallings, and Thompson III evaluations over anonymous internet poster evaluations. Not only that, but all of those coaches has scouted and watched him in person whereas you have seen a couple highlight videos. No offense, but those guys are all trying to win their conference, and make deep runs in the NCAA. They all feel that Garza will make their team better, and is worth one of 13 scholarship spots that they have.

So yeah, it is a fact that all of those guys have been wrong before.....It is also a fact that all of those guys have forgotten more about D1 basketball than all of us posting in this thread combined will know about D1 college basketball.
 
deanvogs said:
I think the point is Lightning, people are going to believe Pitino, Fran, Brey, Collins, Miles, Stallings, and Thompson III evaluations over anonymous internet poster evaluations. Not only that, but all of those coaches has scouted and watched him in person whereas you have seen a couple highlight videos. No offense, but those guys are all trying to win their conference, and make deep runs in the NCAA. They all feel that Garza will make their team better, and is worth one of 13 scholarship spots that they have.

So yeah, it is a fact that all of those guys have been wrong before.....It is also a fact that all of those guys have forgotten more about D1 basketball than all of us posting in this thread combined will know about D1 college basketball.
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Well maybe if those coaches weren't so forgetful they would know to not offer players with flat feet.
 
I'll bet anyone here $500 hard cash that Garza never makes a 1st team All Conf team in a P5 conf. Any takers? I assume that the trust in Pitino and company's talent evaluation skills are such that people will be lining up to take my money. Who's first?
 
lightning1 said:
I'll bet anyone here $500 hard cash that Garza never makes a 1st team All Conf team in a P5 conf. Any takers? I assume that the trust in Pitino and company's talent evaluation skills are such that people will be lining up to take my money. Who's first?
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Here we go again. That isn't what you have been saying about Garza. You have been calling him "just a body", in other words a guy who doesn't even contribute. You say he is an "ok or decent" mid major prospect.

Nobody here is saying he is some 1st team All B1G player. Does this mean that you think every player who never makes 1st team All B1G is "just a body" and shouldn't be recruited. That is the point, you have RIPPED the kid multiple times insinuating he isn't worth a scholarship.

Oh, and I'm still waiting on you taking my bet that Iowa finishes 8th place or better in the B1G. I'm also waiting for an explanation how a team "lucks" it's way to wins from you.
 
lightning1 said:
Yeah. They never miss on a recruit. They have never given a scholarship to a player that didn't pan out. Nothing but doule/double averages from all 13 ships, all the time.
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It's all about the law of averages. Sure they all miss on a few, but when big-time coaches offer a four star player, many more times than not he pans out.
 
deanvogs said:
Here we go again. That isn't what you have been saying about Garza. You have been calling him "just a body", in other words a guy who doesn't even contribute. You say he is an "ok or decent" mid major prospect.

Nobody here is saying he is some 1st team All B1G player. Does this mean that you think every player who never makes 1st team All B1G is "just a body" and shouldn't be recruited. That is the point, you have RIPPED the kid multiple times insinuating he isn't worth a scholarship.

Oh, and I'm still waiting on you taking my bet that Iowa finishes 8th place or better in the B1G. I'm also waiting for an explanation how a team "lucks" it's way to wins from you.
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If he's a can't miss, 4* prospect and Pitino wants him.....surely he's destined for at least 1 1st team all conf spot. Since you like to change bets, I'll give you another option. I'll bet you he never averages 13 ppg and 7 rbs per game in a P5 conf. I fully expect Tyler Cook to accomplish that at Iowa. They are both 4* recruits. Take your pick.
1st team all conf or 13/7 in a season. Must be P5 conf. $500 cash.
I'm not discussing it any further with you. Pick one or pass on both.
Past conversations have NOTHING to do with the offer of this bet. I'm willing to put my money up against these college coaches. A true difference maker should get to 1 of those 2 bench marks over a 4 year career. Otherwise they are just another body.
 
lightning1 said:
If he's a can't miss, 4* prospect and Pitino wants him.....surely he's destined for at least 1 1st team all conf spot. Since you like to change bets, I'll give you another option. I'll bet you he never averages 13 ppg and 7 rbs per game in a P5 conf. I fully expect Tyler Cook to accomplish that at Iowa. They are both 4* recruits. Take your pick.
1st team all conf or 13/7 in a season. Must be P5 conf. $500 cash.
I'm not discussing it any further with you. Pick one or pass on both.
Past conversations have NOTHING to do with the offer of this bet. I'm willing to put my money up against these college coaches. A true difference maker should get to 1 of those 2 bench marks over a 4 year career. Otherwise they are just another body.
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So your argument is Iowa should only recruit guaranteed future all conference players? Izzo doesn't even do that.
 
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