Joe Wieskamp

[SteveGarvey1]

This is the kind of comment that begins that spiral. I happen to think Garza's game is garbage and am on record as saying as much. If you were being funny, I can accept that and I will consider future comments accordingly. Fair enough?

Sure thing. But I do think the Garza/flat feet was so thoroughly discussed previously that it wasn't going to spiral into the abyss at this point.

I do think that saying Garza's game is garbage might have a chance to spiral somewhere though.

 

[deanvogs]

This is the kind of comment that begins that spiral. I happen to think Garza's game is garbage and am on record as saying as much. If you were being funny, I can accept that and I will consider future comments accordingly. Fair enough?

Why should any thread spiral out of control simply because posters don't agree with your opinion?

 

[MisterLucky]

Garza has almost 30 offers including some pretty decent programs. Are they all wrong about him?

 

[deanvogs]

Garza has almost 30 offers including some pretty decent programs. Are they all wrong about him?

I guess so? Either way the point being if you disagree with Lightning, he feels that the thread should "spiral out of control".

I personally am with you. I think if a kid earns that many offers he is probably a player. Doesn't mean that those players can't end up being awful, but I would say the percentages of those players being totally horrible are pretty low.

 

[meaning]

Why should any thread spiral out of control simply because posters don't agree with your opinion?

Posters, recruiting services, coaches of other schools ... They all must be wrong. Spiral away.

 

[lightning1]

Garza has almost 30 offers including some pretty decent programs. Are they all wrong about him?

That depends on what they want him for. He looks like a decent mid major PF/C to me. Which is fine. I don't want that if I'm looking to ascend to the upper echelon of a P5 conference. He'll do fine until he runs into a Tyler Cook type of player. He can't carry Cook's jock strap, IMO. Sue me if I'm not content with below average.
Woodbury had an offer from Roy Williams @ UNC. Woodbury wasnt an effective player until his SR season at Iowa and even then it was strictly on the defensive end. Was Roy Williams wrong?
You guys don't seem to understand how college coaches view PF/C's.They need bodies in the post and are more than willing to reach on guys, just like their NBA counterparts do. The majority of the 6'10+ players are projects and they know that. He looks really good to some coaches because he made a big jump this last year. He cut his weight and put In the work to get better and I applaud him for that. But I think we are seeing closer to the ceiling than most here want to accept.

 

[lightning1]

Posters, recruiting services, coaches of other schools ... They all must be wrong. Spiral away.

Recruiting services are not very good. Let's not forget that Peter Jok, Devyn Marble, Aaron White were all 3* recruits by almost every recruiting service. Anyone with half a basketball brain could see the error in those rankings after watching a few games their FR seasons! And there was a loooong list of college coaches that would fight each other in the parking lot, to go back in time and offer all 3 of those guys coming out of high school. Need I go on?

 

[Tierney]

Marble and White were both pretty limited shooting when they came to Iowa. I heard plenty of comments of the experts saying Marble was pretty limited. Jok was injured or recovering from injury. I think White did grow a couple of inches after committing to Iowa. They all deserved their three star rankings when they came to Iowa. That's not to say they weren't good players. There are lots of three star recruits that are great players, or undervalued for a variety of reasons. I see Garza as a Woodbury type player that can shoot. That sounds pretty good to me. Woodbury is a good athlete for being seven foot.

 

[lightning1]

Let's not forget that Conner McCaffrey has been list by every recruiting service as a SF. It wasn't until this year that they changed him to SG. Is there anyone here that believes Conner is coming to Iowa to play SF or even SG?

 

[lightning1]

Marble and White were both pretty limited shooting when they came to Iowa. I heard plenty of comments of the experts saying Marble was pretty limited. Jok was injured or recovering from injury. I think White did grow a couple of inches after committing to Iowa. They all deserved their three star rankings when they came to Iowa. That's not to say they weren't good players. There are lots of three star recruits that are great players, or undervalued for a variety of reasons. I see Garza as a Woodbury type player that can shoot. That sounds pretty good to me. Woodbury is a good athlete for being seven foot.

Those are excuses by recruiting services and coaches that were WRONG. If I could see how good they were gonna be after a few games.....why couldn't they? And I'm not the only person on this board that gushed about all 3 of them in the first part of their FR season.
They were wrong. Plain and simple.
Garza is only going to be a good shooter until he is being guarded by 6'9+ guys every night in the BIG. Then he'll have to put the ball on the floor and create his shot. Which he can't do.

 

[PCHawk]

Those are excuses by recruiting services and coaches that were WRONG. If I could see how good they were gonna be after a few games.....why couldn't they? And I'm not the only person on this board that gushed about all 3 of them in the first part of their FR season.
They were wrong. Plain and simple.
Garza is only going to be a good shooter until he is being guarded by 6'9+ guys every night in the BIG. Then he'll have to put the ball on the floor and create his shot. Which he can't do.

I think they were wrong on White. But Marble developed throughout his college career at a higher rate than most and Jok was hurt so he doesn't really count. If your point is that recruiting services aren't 100% accurate I agree with you tho.

 

[deanvogs]

That depends on what they want him for. He looks like a decent mid major PF/C to me. Which is fine. I don't want that if I'm looking to ascend to the upper echelon of a P5 conference. He'll do fine until he runs into a Tyler Cook type of player. He can't carry Cook's jock strap, IMO. Sue me if I'm not content with below average.
Woodbury had an offer from Roy Williams @ UNC. Woodbury wasnt an effective player until his SR season at Iowa and even then it was strictly on the defensive end. Was Roy Williams wrong?
You guys don't seem to understand how college coaches view PF/C's.They need bodies in the post and are more than willing to reach on guys, just like their NBA counterparts do. The majority of the 6'10+ players are projects and they know that. He looks really good to some coaches because he made a big jump this last year. He cut his weight and put In the work to get better and I applaud him for that. But I think we are seeing closer to the ceiling than most here want to accept.

What is your analysis of Garza based on? I can only assume that you saw him play as a So. and then saw his improvement to this year by your post. How many AAU games did you watch him at, or did you watch is HS games? I'm just curious because you seemed to come to the conclusion the kid has hit his ceiling.

I'm pretty sure that Fran ain't offering Garza as a "body". We either have zero or 1 scholarship at best. Fran was willing to take either Williams, Garza or Nundge, and now has also offered another kid as well. You don't take "bodies" the spring/summer when you don't even have roster room.

 

[lightning1]

I think they were wrong on White. But Marble developed throughout his college career at a higher rate than most and Jok was hurt so he doesn't really count. If your point is that recruiting services aren't 100% accurate I agree with you tho.

By the end of Jok's SR season, he was playing well enough to warrant a much higher rating. It's not the recruiting services I on to rate players based on possible injuries that may or may not become a future problem.
Devyn Marble continued to develop because he has a very high basketball IQ, much like Aaron White.
There is a horrible trend in recruiting services that put little value in players with good mid-range offensive games. It's either 3 pt shooters or athletes that can attack a basket and dunk the ball. That's the reason why Marble and Jok got overlooked. IMO. And history is repeating itself again in Iowa recruiting right now.

 

[lightning1]

What is your analysis of Garza based on? I can only assume that you saw him play as a So. and then saw his improvement to this year by your post. How many AAU games did you watch him at, or did you watch is HS games? I'm just curious because you seemed to come to the conclusion the kid has hit his ceiling.

I'm pretty sure that Fran ain't offering Garza as a "body". We either have zero or 1 scholarship at best. Fran was willing to take either Williams, Garza or Nundge, and now has also offered another kid as well. You don't take "bodies" the spring/summer when you don't even have roster room.

I can see his athletic limitations.
And coaches do take bodies or projects, as I should have said, when the projects they have are not working out. But I can't say why Fran offered him. You'd have to ask Fran. Different coaches have different reasons.

 

[deanvogs]

I can see his athletic limitations.
And coaches do take bodies or projects, as I should have said, when the projects they have are not working out. But I can't say why Fran offered him. You'd have to ask Fran. Different coaches have different reasons.

So you saw his athletic abilities before or after he slimmed down and got his P5 offers? Did you see him at AAU or HS. If he has hit is ceiling, what exactly is that? I mean are we talking a Woody type who plays good D, rebounds and is tough, or are we talking Brommer?

 

[lightning1]

And no, I have not seen Garza in person. The farthest east I got was Akron, OH for AAU.
And I might very well be wrong about Garza. I wasn't impressed with Maish's videos but after seeing him in person, I changed my mind. I think he could be a Devyn Marble type.

 

[lightning1]

So you saw his athletic abilities before or after he slimmed down and got his P5 offers? Did you see him at AAU or HS. If he has hit is ceiling, what exactly is that? I mean are we talking a Woody type who plays good D, rebounds and is tough, or are we talking Brommer?

I've seen his most recent videos, after he slimmed down.
I believe his ceiling is average mid-major PF.
My opinion of Woodbury is this. For his first 3 years he was a net loss for the team when he was on the floor. I think Olesani's development was stunted as a result.
Im not sure what kind of defensive effort we can expect out of Garza. They don't often show that kind of stuff on videos.
If we get 1 good defensive season out of Garza, like we did Woodbury, I consider that a poor result and I wouldn't waste a scholarship on that.

 

[lightning1]

In a P5 conference, I don't see Garza ever averaging 13ppg and 7 revs.
I expect Tyler Cook will do that his FR season.

 

[Tierney]

Those are excuses by recruiting services and coaches that were WRONG. If I could see how good they were gonna be after a few games.....why couldn't they? And I'm not the only person on this board that gushed about all 3 of them in the first part of their FR season.
They were wrong. Plain and simple.
Garza is only going to be a good shooter until he is being guarded by 6'9+ guys every night in the BIG. Then he'll have to put the ball on the floor and create his shot. Which he can't do.

I doubt Iowa would of recruited Marble out of high school if it wasn't for his dad. These players can mature a lot in a year, and he developed a lot under the Iowa coaching staff. White grew a couple of inches right before coming to Iowa and he was pretty limited in his shooting. Jok was recovering from the type of injury that hindered his natural basketball abilities. I can see why they were rated three stars out of high school. Its pretty amazing how much the Iowa coaching staff utilized both Marble, and Whites natural abilities.

 

[lightning1]

I doubt Iowa would of recruited Marble out of high school if it wasn't for his dad. These players can mature a lot in a year, and he developed a lot under the Iowa coaching staff. White grew a couple of inches right before coming to Iowa and he was pretty limited in his shooting. Jok was recovering from the type of injury that hindered his natural basketball abilities. I can see why they were rated three stars out of high school. Its pretty amazing how much the Iowa coaching staff utilized both Marble, and Whites natural abilities.

Can you provide a link to White growing 2" right before he got to Iowa? I don't recall that. And I think Aaron White was a 2* recruit by some services.
My point still stands. Jok played his JR and SR high school years without injury and he put up good numbers doing it. The services were wrong. I knew they were wrong. Why are you making excuses for them? If a player misses his SR season of high school, I could give them the benefit of the doubt here. But that's not the case with Jok, so I don't buy what you're selling here.