Soon to be triple jabbed.
Is the Iowa vax rate off limits or something?
- Thread starter SwirlinLingerie
- Start date
Fryowa
Administrator
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/iowa/
But (some of you), by all means keep believing that Iowans are dying at a rate of hundreds per day and overrunning hospitals with their covid cases.
Fryowa
Administrator
Rolling 7 day average deaths have been at 0 since August 12.
But we should keep wearing masks indefinitely because if we don't it's going to skyrocket to levels not seen since the bubonic plague, right? Ya never know...there might be a chance 6 years from now, so.......
Yep. Better just keep 6 feet away from everyone, wear a mask, and make high fives and handshakes illegal. And cancel people on Twitter and Instagram. But not the people who weigh 435 lbs ordering two McDoubles with money the government gave them for being too fat to work. That'd be fat shaming and welfare shaming. And by god there's nothing they can do about being that fat!
Oh, and can someone please post the number of vaccinated adults as well as children (vaccinated or not) in the state of Iowa who've died from covid since the vaccine was available? And then post the same demographic's numbers from heart disease, type-2 diabetes, and car accidents?
But we should keep wearing masks indefinitely because if we don't it's going to skyrocket to levels not seen since the bubonic plague, right? Ya never know...there might be a chance 6 years from now, so.......
Yep. Better just keep 6 feet away from everyone, wear a mask, and make high fives and handshakes illegal. And cancel people on Twitter and Instagram. But not the people who weigh 435 lbs ordering two McDoubles with money the government gave them for being too fat to work. That'd be fat shaming and welfare shaming. And by god there's nothing they can do about being that fat!
Oh, and can someone please post the number of vaccinated adults as well as children (vaccinated or not) in the state of Iowa who've died from covid since the vaccine was available? And then post the same demographic's numbers from heart disease, type-2 diabetes, and car accidents?
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
What about vaxed fans spreading covid not knowing?
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
You can't say for sure which side completely true.
Fryowa
Administrator
That was exactly his point.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
That's one of the biggest sticking points in this whole pandemic. Some experts think a vaccinated person can't spread covid (which would be awesome).
Other experts think they can.
There is feedback from both camps here. And I don't think either side can say with much confidence if they are correct.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that's the real bitch of an airborne virus. It takes a lot of experiments, data collection and time to figure things out, and even then, bince you can't really look at the air with an electron microscope to observe what is happening it's pretty damned hard to duplicate findings.
Did anyone here have a dad or brother who could clear a room with a tear-inducing fart?
Fryowa
Administrator
If we ever had an HN meetup you can bet your aunt Sally I’d be crop dusting you guys any chance I got. Especially @HuckFinn because he lost his sense of humor instead of smell when he got the ‘rona. #longcovid #fartin’thecurve
Even a double mask ain’t gonna stop me after a session of egg salad sammiches and HyVee country style potato salad.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
After gorging on a decent Chinese Buffet at any Dragon's Tail or Lotus Blossom type establishment I could definitely clear a room.
Note: Enjoy Chinese buffets, but be glad you don't have to work in their kitchen, or deliver packages to the rear of the building where the kitchen or dumpster is. UGH!!!!
oregonhawkeye
Well-Known Member
Hey all. Hope you're staying safe and getting vaccinated. We're having a terrible COVID surge where I live with full ICUs and it's projected to get worse through September. It's really a shame there's so much disinformation about the disease and the vaccine. And now we're seeing young people dying. Maybe that'll change some people's minds.
Fryowa
Administrator
There’s plenty of disinformation on both sides. Left and right. Ask yourself an honest question…is what you think of as “disinformation” because it fits your opinion, or is it based on statistics when compared to other existing risks we take daily?
The justice warrior mob likes to call it whataboutism because it’s an easy way to deflect without having to consider the other side’s viewpoint. You can just call the other guy’s view whataboutism and then cancel them online and on Twitter and move on to the next one. It’s the liberal arts version of, “because I said so.” Life is nothing more than a big “whataboutism.” You compare and try to balance risk and outcomes in every single decision you make in life. But the justice job doesn’t want you to do that. They want you to toe the line of fear and one sidedness with the rest of them or you’re gonna get canceled.
Use your brain to do the math and look at statistical risk that doesn’t come from Twitter, Facebook, or a news show. If you don’t like the risk by all means mask up, avoid people, and stay home with your kids as much as possible. No shame in it if it’s what makes you feel comfortable. None.
If you do that math and see that your odds of dying from covid after vaccination are tens of thousands of times less than dying in a car crash or killing someone else in a car crash on your way to work, then feel comfortable living your life.
Two choices, make the one that’s right for you and leave the other side alone in peace. This thing is absolutely not going away, not ever. Never ever ever until whatever catastrophic thing happens to eradicate humans from the earth (it ain’t covid). If you want to live in a bunker watching Fox or MSNBC and Twitter and yelling at people who want to breathe without a mask and hug people and stand next to people about how they’re baby killers, then you do you.
But listen up, statistics prove that those people are way more baby killers when they drive to the super market than I am by not wearing a mask as a vaccinated individual.
There are 40,000 deaths a year in car accidents and 4.4 million injuries from car accidents serious enough to require hospitalization. We could end every single one of them today by turning of our cars. Done… No more deaths or injuries. Period.
But we don’t. Because we balance risk with how we need to function as a society. We know that roughly 40,000 people are going to die unnecessarily because we use vehicles in this country when we don’t need to. Take those numbers and compare them to covid deaths in kids and vaccinated adults since the vaccine became available, and you can see the folly of your argument. The news wants you to 1) live in fear, and 2) be mad at me as a baby killer because fear and anger drive more website clicks.
You are putting thousands of people at tens of thousands of times more risk doing your other daily activities than I could ever dream of by not wearing a mask. You are just as much a baby killer as me but you’ll dismiss that idea just as fast as I dismiss wearing a mask because it doesn’t fit your narrative. You won’t answer my question about driving cars because it would cramp your lifestyle if you had to walk everywhere. But you could still function and survive, no?
No need to hope for me to be staying safe. Your and my versions of being safe are vastly different. One is based on fear and irrationality, and one is based on statistics and risk in relation to other daily risks. Go Hawks.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Took many reasons for not being vaxxed. The lazy and those afraid of shots will move the needle. Myself I'm 5 10 165 with great BP and blood sugar levels. I keep vit d and zinc up. Why would I get the vax.
There will be data later about risk of shots. Yesterday it was announced higher heat enlargement occurrence from Moderna than earlier released. LA count had hospitalizations from fully vaxed to 13 percent.
Local major hospital announced 2 days ago they were not near capacity and next day said they were near full. So much misinfo.
We need to focus on obesity which is the real issue. Most recent info releases say little about how obese victims are. I doubt that needle has changed much. Younger yes but non obese...not much.
Why aren't we focusing on natural immunity? Anecdotally I was majorly exposed and didn't get it. Also there is so much info out there about Ivermectin why gets iignored. Why?
oregonhawkeye
Well-Known Member
Thanks both for your thoughtful replies.
Fry I get what you're saying about keeping perspective about death rates and risk. It's completely true that we have to make compromises about safety and living life all the time. Where we don't see eye to eye apparently is about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines and masking. I'm a doctor and get my information from the same sources I've relied on during my training and career. I like to think that my information is the best science the world has to offer. And we know unequivocally that people who mask and get vaccinated are less likely to die of COVID or take up an ICU bed. There are no risks in masking and the risks of the vaccine are essentially negligible. So why not do it? It's not the same as having to stop driving to protect yourself and others, there's no actual sacrifice.
Currently about 1000 people die daily of COVID, far more than from car accidents. And almost 100% preventable without giving up ones keys.
Gold, I hope you know that ivermectin is as unproven as hydroxychloroquine (doesn't work for COVID) was last year. Thinking that ivermectin is being intentionally ignored sounds like conspiracy theory to me. And obesity is indeed a risk factor but not "the issue". Plenty of normal BMI folks are dying from COVID.
Our ICUs are full. Perhaps the ones close to you are in better shape. It's a regional phenomenon for sure. Medical providers here and in many areas are truly struggling trying to help COVID patients almost all of whom are unvaccinated.
Lastly please understand that being vaccinated protects those who don't have the fortune that you seem to enjoy in your current good health.
Fry I get what you're saying about keeping perspective about death rates and risk. It's completely true that we have to make compromises about safety and living life all the time. Where we don't see eye to eye apparently is about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines and masking. I'm a doctor and get my information from the same sources I've relied on during my training and career. I like to think that my information is the best science the world has to offer. And we know unequivocally that people who mask and get vaccinated are less likely to die of COVID or take up an ICU bed. There are no risks in masking and the risks of the vaccine are essentially negligible. So why not do it? It's not the same as having to stop driving to protect yourself and others, there's no actual sacrifice.
Currently about 1000 people die daily of COVID, far more than from car accidents. And almost 100% preventable without giving up ones keys.
Gold, I hope you know that ivermectin is as unproven as hydroxychloroquine (doesn't work for COVID) was last year. Thinking that ivermectin is being intentionally ignored sounds like conspiracy theory to me. And obesity is indeed a risk factor but not "the issue". Plenty of normal BMI folks are dying from COVID.
Our ICUs are full. Perhaps the ones close to you are in better shape. It's a regional phenomenon for sure. Medical providers here and in many areas are truly struggling trying to help COVID patients almost all of whom are unvaccinated.
Lastly please understand that being vaccinated protects those who don't have the fortune that you seem to enjoy in your current good health.
Fryowa
Administrator
I’m vaccinated. I think it’s safe and I think it’s a good thing. I’ve said so many times here.
This is where you are skewing the facts of the situation—just like the media—to strike fear into people and to make them vastly overestimate their own risk. Because you feel strongly about it, you are are leaving out some of the most important parts of the story. That’s irresponsible and wrong. It just flat out is.
Answer this for me…out of the thousand per day, how many are vaccinated and how many are children?
The deaths are essentially all unvaccinated adults and almost all have underlying health problems that they brought on themselves from obesity. That’s fact. And you choose not to admit it because you want to scare people into elevating their perceived risk so they buy into your agenda.
If an adult chooses to remain unvaccinated and they die from covid that’s on them. This sounds cold but it was their choice and they’re paying the consequences of their lifestyle that led to obesity, COPD, diabetes, and whatever else put them there. Because you and I both know that’s what almost everyone has when they’re dying from this thing.
I use the car accident scenario because the risk of dying in kids and vaccinated adults is in fact so small as to be statistical noise (but you won’t talk about that). It’s almost nothing, and I argue that because of that, I’m not willing to wear a mask, avoid human contact, have another season of avoiding football games, locking down again (we all know this is what’s coming next), etc. Why should I disrupt my life for someone who made choices on their own by being fat, smoking, and/or choosing not to vaccinate? If there was a valid reason, I would. Before the vaccine was available I did. I wore a mask and tried to distance. But that time of great risk is over unless people choose to put themselves in the risk group. That’s not my problem.
And yes, doc, when you drive to your hospital/clinic every day, you are risking your life, and others’ lives tens of thousands of times more than a child or unvaccinated adult. Now you might be able to justify that because you treat people as a doctor, but what about me? Why don’t we mandate cars being illegal? It would instantly save 40,000 people a year. Why don’t we mandate against cheeseburgers, sugar, and cigarettes? Because those are what’s killing people with covid in 99% of the cases. We don’t mandate against those things, because people aren’t afraid of them. They’re afraid of covid unnecessarily (if they’re healthy or vaccinated) because the media likes to drive fear and uncertainty. It gives them ratings and website clicks. And when sheep buy into it then you have mask mandates and lockdowns again.
And I’m sorry, sir—you are as guilty as anyone about stoking the fire.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Those 2 products are not unproven. You put too much trust in a system. There are a lot of medications docs that can and do use it. You also need to know how badly understaffed and trained staff were incorrectly using vents.
I know the risks and accept them. You chose to ignore side effects and how later research can and does disprove rhetoric. Roundup is a huge well known example.
If someone dies of covid coming from me it will be almost a certainty to come from their choices.
My sister told me yesterday how worried she is about me. She is 40 pounds overweight and smokes. And she is worried about me?
My guess is someday the fact that we have a sizeable unvaccinated population will be considered a good thing in herd immunity.
I understand that my risk is low from the vax. But I am where I am because I'm different. My 4 sibs are all overweight an 2 of them morbidly. My parents were morbidly overweight and died young.
My family of birth diets was horrible. I'm not changing course at present. My younger brother has had had a heart attack and bypass surgery.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
That is not knowable at this point with a high degree of certainty. Pharma testing takes time. Anyone who makes a conclusory statement that it is "safe" or "dangerous" is just talking out of their ass because no one knows. Hence, the MSM's massive attempts to characterize anyone with a "I'mma hold off for a bit" opinion as a conspiracy theorist who thinks Bill Gates is putting a 5G tracker in the vaccine.
Fryowa
Administrator
And this is complete BS. I'm sorry, but it is.
Quality of life is more than just existing, or existing in fear of being sick.
Wearing a mask, staying away from people, living in fear that if you talk to someone standing too close you'll die, and all kinds of other things are not living and enjoying life. Not being able to go to large gatherings, not being able to sit in the same room with someone for a meeting because you have to do it via computer now, not being able to read and see someone's facial expressions because you're both scared to death that if you take your mask off you'll keel over...that's not living.
Human interaction and the need for human interaction is what makes us human. We are a social species and we as a whole don't do well with out it. We need distractions and escapes like concerts and sports, and being able to hug people or stand within 6 feet of people without the fear of dying from something that's statistically not likely to even be worse than a common cold.
Your retort may be, "Well we just need to vaccinate and wear masks until the situation becomes manageable..."
That's horseshit too. And I suspect as a doctor you know it is.
Remember back to when this thing started, doc...
Remember at first it was "Two weeks to flatten the curve." Then it was two months, then it was, "Once we have the vaccine this will be over," and then it was the Delta variant, and now it's breakthrough cases..." Your goalposts are on racing wheels, man.
This thing is not going away and you know it. Even if it could be eradicated (which it can't), in a real world you will never get the populace to comply. You know all those news stories you heard about people having birthday parties or weddings or church group or whatever and then a bunch of people getting infected? Yeah that sucks, but the whole reason those happen is because humans aren't wired to live with cloth over their faces and staying home and working from a laptop with no human interaction, and never having a chance to do anything in a social setting. You will never stop people from gathering. I don't know how much simpler I can say it. And you will never get everyone to vaccinate.
If we had it your way there would never be a gathering over a few hundred people spaced out, and we'd Zoom into every meeting, and we'd all have masks on anytime we came within 60' of another human, and on and on and on and on. That's not living...that's existing. Under your scenario there is never a condition in which this thing goes away to a "manageable" level. It's a respiratory virus that's carried by animals and which mutates very quickly. There is no eradication. For the millionth time, it's not fucking polio or measles. As soon as 99% of the populace got vaccinated this thing will have mutated enough to make that vaccine ineffective and now you're back to screaming at people about masks again and waiting in their bunker huddled down until the next vaccine comes out...ad...fucking...nauseum.
You know what's going to stop this thing? The same deal that happened with the Spanish Flu. Eventually it mutated enough and there was enough herd immunity that the strain weakened to the point where it was just another one that wasn't more dangerous than any of the others. And no matter how much you want it to be the case, human beings aren't going to mask and avoid for the rest of their lives. It's not happening. And I'm glad for that.
oregonhawkeye
Well-Known Member
COVID may never go away.
I'm not suggesting you or anyone else give up living in society or sacrifice civil liberties. Just that they get the stinking shot. You have Fry. I wish only that you'd start to support this line of reasoning (and drop the invective).
Vaccines are extremely safe and as of now highly effective at preventing death. My only real agenda here is to encourage people to get them to protect themselves and vulnerable others. When it mutates we'll likely need a new shot, like flu, which has never gone away. So we get that shot when it's needed.
I'm not suggesting you or anyone else give up living in society or sacrifice civil liberties. Just that they get the stinking shot. You have Fry. I wish only that you'd start to support this line of reasoning (and drop the invective).
Vaccines are extremely safe and as of now highly effective at preventing death. My only real agenda here is to encourage people to get them to protect themselves and vulnerable others. When it mutates we'll likely need a new shot, like flu, which has never gone away. So we get that shot when it's needed.
Fryowa
Administrator
If someone chooses not to vaccinate themselves that is their problem. I should not have to modify my life because someone is cavalier with their own health. Please give me a good reason why.
Why should I have to wear a mask, stay 6' away from people indoors, and avoid gatherings? Those are the personal "civil liberties" that the mask&avoid crowd want us to sacrifice. You want me to do things (and not do things, like gather in large groups, etc...) to save people who choose not to help themselves. And you know what? The goal posts will continue to move because this thing is here to stay.
You want my kid to wear a mask for the next nine months and stay away from other kids, and not do basically anything that relates to being a kid when he has quite literally an almost zero chance of being harmed by covid. He rides a moped to school and football practice and he's a million times more likely to die doing that than die from covid. What's your response to that? Should I make him walk? Or should I balance risk, educate him, and trust that his odds of injury are low? You still haven't answered my question about our other daily, far greater risks that we still take purely out of convenience. You just dismiss it and say, "Yep, we do have to balance risk, but..." But what? Tell me where your line is drawn...It's relevant...
The shot has been freely available for a long time now to anyone who wants it. It's no longer my responsibility to make sure those people don't get sick. What do you not understand about that?
When you have an unvaccinated patient come in half dead from covid, should not your response be, “You should have protected yourself by getting vaccinated and taking better care of your health in the first place,” rather than, “Everyone else needs to wear masks, avoid human contact, and stop living normal life for your sake?”
You also still haven't given me an answer on my question. How many vaccinated people have gotten seriously ill or died of covid? The state of Minnesota has said that in the past 4 months 99.8% of all hospitalizations are in unvaccinated adults. That number obviously has to translate nationally to within a very small margin of error. The number of kids and vaccinated adults getting sick or dying is effectively zero. Therefore, an unvaccinated individual has made that choice at their own peril either from ignorance, or like @HawkGold because they feel they are healthy enough that they're not at risk. When they make that choice it absolves me from any responsibility. And I'm going to speak for him and say he understands that and is fine with it.
Is it sad when unvaccinated people get sick and die? Yes, it is. Is it everyone else's concern to modify their own lives because of it? Nope.
