Iowa Basketball: The Cold Reality

[storminspank]

We should care about ISU. We want ISU basketball to be bad, just like we want ISU football to be bad. The worse they are, the easier it is for us to recruit the few blue chippers that come from this state. Steve's point is spot on, that we now have a chance with a new coach to bring excitement back to our program, which is something Mac won't be able to do at ISU. Therefore, making it easier for us to recruit the in-state talent.

Also, I would agree with you on the continuity part, except for the fact that the first 3 years of the Lick era and all the transfers have been the furthest thing from continuity within our program.

By the way, do you dispute the part of Jon's podcast where he states Lick does not have good relationships with his players? If not, then how can you think Lick can provide continuity with our program? That seems like a recipe for more transfers, whether this year or in future years.

RE: ISU.... How many players has Iowa lost to ISU heads up in a recruiting battle. By that, I mean how many players have gone to Iowa State over a strong Iowa offer? By contrast, how many have gone to Iowa over Iowa State regardless of which coach is at Iowa? Iowa doesn't need a head start whatsoever. I will give Deace credit, though, he stuck it to me earlier in the season about Iowa being the doormat of the Big Ten - he was right in that regard. I just don't see ISU beating Iowa for recruits at a large clip.

As far as player relations, I think Coach Lickliter does a better job with some players than he does with others.

 

[storminspank]

I'm genuinely curious: From what exposure are you reading Fuller, and what did he do or say in that exposure that causes you to read him in any particular way?

I am not going to claim I know Aaron on a personal level, I do not. I have had opportunities to talk to him, listen to him, interact, etc... He seems very much a genuine person. Like I said, I could be 100% wrong, as could anyone saying he is going to leave. I just call them as I see them. Again, I'm not a fortune-teller, but if Lickliter is back next year I would expect Aaron to be back, as well.

 

[loesshillshawk]

Jon, you say it's been since 2001 with an NCAA Tourney win, while that's true, you'd be VERY remiss to not talk about the 2005-06 season under Alford. That 3 seeded NCAA team did bring a lot of fans into Carver. Iowa had a HUGE home-game winning streak, Carver was packed. What was the factor? Winning. Winning heals everything.

I'm not a soothsayer, but if I'm good at reading people at all, I think Fuller stays. 40-60% chance to stay is a little low IMO. Is there a chance he leaves? Absolutely, but I think you are letting some birdies peep in your ear a little bit too much about Aaron.

I was not happy when Iowa hired Lickliter, it took me a while to warm up to him. Here's what I wrote: STORMINSPANK'S HAWKEYE RAMBLINGS: LICKLITER HIRED: Hawk fans, get ready for some S-L-O-W basketball I was worried a bit. I did warm after doing some due diligence in researching.

And now, as it stand with Lickliter, I think he stays. It's not a $$ thing with Lickliter, it's continuity. If main players leave, then fine, let him loose. But with this class coming in, and if Fuller, Gatens, and Payne are still around, I see Lickliter staying.

I do find it interesting you brought up stuff that I talked about in this thread: http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/basketball/6669-storminspank.html - we obviously see the same thing in regards to AAU stuff, recruiting issues, etc... What I disagree with is that Lick needs to go right now. It's sort of the thoughts about me not wanting Alford to go after the 2006 season.

Deace talking about Iowa burying ISU - who cares? Is ISU really that big of threat to Iowa? No. Who cares about ISU? Getting a 2 year headstart on ISU? Who cares?

Put me in the box who believes in Unicorns and Flying Horses (even though I think they are the same thing), as I'm not related to Todd and I don't get paid.

I'm not a rah-rah Lickliter guy, but I don't think he needs to go now.

Pie in the sky...diligence tells me when researching Lick what happened for 3 years when he ran out of Matta guys???? LOSING< LOSING< LOSING. He is in over his head....if he were to make staff changes I might buy in. He won't and what assistant wants to come in knowing your gone in a year.

 

[loesshillshawk]

RE: ISU.... How many players has Iowa lost to ISU heads up in a recruiting battle. By that, I mean how many players have gone to Iowa State over a strong Iowa offer? By contrast, how many have gone to Iowa over Iowa State regardless of which coach is at Iowa? Iowa doesn't need a head start whatsoever. I will give Deace credit, though, he stuck it to me earlier in the season about Iowa being the doormat of the Big Ten - he was right in that regard. I just don't see ISU beating Iowa for recruits at a large clip.

As far as player relations, I think Coach Lickliter does a better job with some players than he does with others.

Come on compare ISU talent right now to ours....

 

[cockyhawkfan]

Thanks. That was a good listen. I think the strongest point you made was the opportunity to make a move prior to Iowa State. With the upgrades to our facilities that we are working on I think our pool of candidates has potential to be strong. I think it would be a bad business decision on Barta's behalf to gamble with the possibility of both in-state schools potentially looking for head basketball coaches in the same year.

 

[storminspank]

Pie in the sky...diligence tells me when researching Lick what happened for 3 years when he ran out of Matta guys???? LOSING< LOSING< LOSING. He is in over his head....if he were to make staff changes I might buy in. He won't and what assistant wants to come in knowing your gone in a year.

So 06-07 was with 6th year Matta players??? Or did somehow continue recruiting for Butler while he was at Ohio State when the Bulldogs got a 5 seed in the NCAA tourney, won 29 games, played National Champion Florida closer than any other team in the tourney that year? The same year that team (filled with LICKLITER RECRUITS) beat Purdue, Indiana, Gonzaga, Notre Dame, Tennessee, Maryland, et al (all Top 50 RPI teams).

It's ok to rip on Lickliter for things he does or doesn't do. But to say he couldn't win with his own recruits is a flat out lie.

I'm not convinced Lickliter's system will work at Iowa, but you have to admit that Lick has proven he can win with his guys.

 

[NewEraKinnick]

It may be decades before Iowa sees the NCAAs again.

 

[loesshillshawk]

So 06-07 was with 6th year Matta players??? Or did somehow continue recruiting for Butler while he was at Ohio State when the Bulldogs got a 5 seed in the NCAA tourney, won 29 games, played National Champion Florida closer than any other team in the tourney that year? The same year that team (filled with LICKLITER RECRUITS) beat Purdue, Indiana, Gonzaga, Notre Dame, Tennessee, Maryland, et al (all Top 50 RPI teams).

It's ok to rip on Lickliter for things he does or doesn't do. But to say he couldn't win with his own recruits is a flat out lie.

I'm not convinced Lickliter's system will work at Iowa, but you have to admit that Lick has proven he can win with his guys.

Stormin I worked a camp with a D1 coach...he said Licks recruiting was done by Brad Stevens from 2002-07....and he was getting recruits all by himself and Lick was just along for the ride. This guy told me Lick is not a recruiter and he had a few choice words about the system...

 

[HeneryHawk]

Lickliter had 4 years worth of Matta recruits, and undoubtedly, had recruiting ties established by him to mine for the years following, plus he started off with some experienced assistant coaches to help him out. He hasnt ever built a program, he wasnt ever the lead recruiter, he worked off of success that others built, and thats a BIG difference from what he walked into in IOWA CITY. His management skills, based on results, are horrid, add in the turnover, and its obvious that he isnt CLOSE to being a people person. Actually, he seems so little invested in the program, its bizarre. He hasnt(and doesnt get) been out and sell the program, he cant build relationships with the players(they leave for a reason, and if they believe in him, believe that they matter to the coach, they dont leave), and he doesnt seem to do the extra to get extra from the kids. It like I noticed last year, and again this year, his practices are the most bizarre, unpleasant ones I have ever watched, he didnt relate to the kids personally AT ALL, I have never seen that at any practice anywhere ever.

 

[NightmanCometh]

It may be decades before Iowa sees the NCAAs again.

That is a ridiculous statement.

 

[storminspank]

Stormin I worked a camp with a D1 coach...he said Licks recruiting was done by Brad Stevens from 2002-07....and he was getting recruits all by himself and Lick was just along for the ride. This guy told me Lick is not a recruiter and he had a few choice words about the system...

Your D1 source would be correct. That's why Iowa needs to go out and hire a recruiter in the off-season. It just needs to be done. I like all of the assistant coaches, but Lickliter needs to break ties with one of his Butler guys. I'd expect it'd have to be Joel. Again, nothing against him, he's a fiery guy, a lot of BB knowledge, hates losing... but Lickliter already has two other guys that can teach. He needs someone to recruit.

 

[FreddyBrown]

I'm not convinced Lickliter's system will work at Iowa, but you have to admit that Lick has proven he can win with his guys.

One of my concerns with Lick is that the range of players who can be "his guys" might be more narrow than any coach I've ever followed closely--and that significantly narrows the margin for error in recruiting, for a guy who is seriously challenged as a recruiter to begin with.

That's one of the reasons I don't believe it will work here.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

I enjoyed listening to Jon talk about the state of this program today. However after thinking about it more, I think the timing of this discussion today was bit odd.

Why now, Jon? Why, 1 day before most likely the final game of the season? It couldn't wait until Friday. I just find that interesting.

 

[JHHawk]

Your D1 source would be correct. That's why Iowa needs to go out and hire a recruiter in the off-season. It just needs to be done. I like all of the assistant coaches, but Lickliter needs to break ties with one of his Butler guys. I'd expect it'd have to be Joel. Again, nothing against him, he's a fiery guy, a lot of BB knowledge, hates losing... but Lickliter already has two other guys that can teach. He needs someone to recruit.

Spank, what is the biggest challenge facing Iowa bb year after year?
Clearly,being in the smallest population state in the conference, a state that produces the least div 1 players in the conference makes talent procurement our biggest issue. Now, please tell me why we would knowingly handicapp ourselves in that area by having a head coach that you concede is not proficient in recruiting? Iowa needs a whole staff of good recruiters,with a head coach who can close the deal in the living room,not just an additional assistant...assistants make contact,start the relationships,but head coaches have to be very involved in that process all along and be able to close the deal.

Look, I have always been a big continuity guy also,which was why I also was not pleased when SA bailed on Iowa...but that staff had made the adjustment and were tracking good recruits...I just do not think a band-aid can fix the gushing wound on this staff...ie..licks relunctance or inability to bring talent to the team.

I simply do not think that lick's coaching acumen is so exceptional that we can hang our hat on it...watch the tournys this weekend around the country..we need a special staff to get our level of talent back where it needs to be. A super-recruiter head coach.

 

[ChosenChildren]

You find the timing interesting because Barta is thinking about terminating Coach Lickliter.

Where there is smoke there is fire.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

You find the timing interesting because Barta is thinking about terminating Coach Lickliter.

Where there is smoke there is fire.

How do you know that Barta is thinking about terminating Coach Lickliter. Barta has been on record saying he has no thought of letting Lickliter go after the season. I know Mr. Miller has contacts but I doubt this was what that rant was about him knowing that to be a fact.

 

[storminspank]

How do you know that Barta is thinking about terminating Coach Lickliter. Barta has been on record saying he has no thought of letting Lickliter go after the season. I know Mr. Miller has contacts but I doubt this was what that rant was about him knowing that to be a fact.

You are correct.