Iowa Basketball: The Cold Reality

JonDMiller said:
Difficult to answer. Would Todd have had more success this year with Kelly, Peterson, Palmer and Davis on the team? I think yes...a lot more in fact. I don't think I'd be where I am right now were those guy still around.
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+1

If Kelly was the only player that left last year. This team would still better with Peterson, Palmer and Davis. In fact Peterson and Davis would be huge for this team.

Aside from Kelly, Lickliter pushed the other 3 players out the door. That is sad. He is doing the exact samething with Brommer right now.
 
Thank you Jon, for saying what needed to be said. Keep fighting the good fight. Change will not come unless noise continues to be made.
 
I just listened and as a lover of Hawkeye basketball it made me sick to my stomach. I am tired of losing but even more tired about the complaining about losing. Jon might be 100% right, I don't know. But I hate this whole situation.
 
Jon, you say it's been since 2001 with an NCAA Tourney win, while that's true, you'd be VERY remiss to not talk about the 2005-06 season under Alford. That 3 seeded NCAA team did bring a lot of fans into Carver. Iowa had a HUGE home-game winning streak, Carver was packed. What was the factor? Winning. Winning heals everything.

I'm not a soothsayer, but if I'm good at reading people at all, I think Fuller stays. 40-60% chance to stay is a little low IMO. Is there a chance he leaves? Absolutely, but I think you are letting some birdies peep in your ear a little bit too much about Aaron.

I was not happy when Iowa hired Lickliter, it took me a while to warm up to him. Here's what I wrote: STORMINSPANK'S HAWKEYE RAMBLINGS: LICKLITER HIRED: Hawk fans, get ready for some S-L-O-W basketball I was worried a bit. I did warm after doing some due diligence in researching.

And now, as it stand with Lickliter, I think he stays. It's not a $$ thing with Lickliter, it's continuity. If main players leave, then fine, let him loose. But with this class coming in, and if Fuller, Gatens, and Payne are still around, I see Lickliter staying.

I do find it interesting you brought up stuff that I talked about in this thread: http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/basketball/6669-storminspank.html - we obviously see the same thing in regards to AAU stuff, recruiting issues, etc... What I disagree with is that Lick needs to go right now. It's sort of the thoughts about me not wanting Alford to go after the 2006 season.

Deace talking about Iowa burying ISU - who cares? Is ISU really that big of threat to Iowa? No. Who cares about ISU? Getting a 2 year headstart on ISU? Who cares?

Put me in the box who believes in Unicorns and Flying Horses (even though I think they are the same thing), as I'm not related to Todd and I don't get paid.

I'm not a rah-rah Lickliter guy, but I don't think he needs to go now.
 
When the number one representative of Hawkeye Nation thinks that the coach needs to go, you better pay attention.

Jon is going out on a limb here, but knows more than he is letting on.
 
We should care about ISU. We want ISU basketball to be bad, just like we want ISU football to be bad. The worse they are, the easier it is for us to recruit the few blue chippers that come from this state. Steve's point is spot on, that we now have a chance with a new coach to bring excitement back to our program, which is something Mac won't be able to do at ISU. Therefore, making it easier for us to recruit the in-state talent.

Also, I would agree with you on the continuity part, except for the fact that the first 3 years of the Lick era and all the transfers have been the furthest thing from continuity within our program.

By the way, do you dispute the part of Jon's podcast where he states Lick does not have good relationships with his players? If not, then how can you think Lick can provide continuity with our program? That seems like a recipe for more transfers, whether this year or in future years.
 
Here's my question: Did Lick forget how to coach when he moved to Iowa City from Indy? I was very impressed with the effort of his teams...4/6 seasons at Butler with 20+ wins and 5/6 seasons w/ winning records...Not going well at Iowa, no doubt, but what happened?
 
ChosenChildren said:
When the number one representative of Hawkeye Nation thinks that the coach needs to go, you better pay attention.

Jon is going out on a limb here, but knows more than he is letting on.
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Not that I would have first hand knowledge of Jon's thoughts, but I think you are reading FAR too much into it.

But, I hope you are right :)
 
I know for an absolute fact that Lickliter has a very good relationship with(at least some)players. I can't speak to every player, however. I saw how players reacted when their coach was in the hospital. Don't tell me there is no love there.

I don't know if Lickliter is the right coach for Iowa, and I certainly have my doubts, but to say he has to go because of poor player relationships is way beyond wrong in my book.

If players leave he has to go. But boy I would like to see what he could do with a full squad and the better talent he will have available next year.
 
Hooper said:
I know for an absolute fact that Lickliter has a very good relationship with(at least some)players. I can't speak to every player, however. I saw how players reacted when their coach was in the hospital. Don't tell me there is no love there.

I don't know if Lickliter is the right coach for Iowa, and I certainly have my doubts, but to say he has to go because of poor player relationships is way beyond wrong in my book.

If players leave he has to go. But boy I would like to see what he could do with a full squad and the better talent he will have available next year.
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Next year's talent is no better than what is arriving in the B10+ 1 next year and probably a step down, IMHO. And Jon's statement that Lick has a poor relationship with the players confirms -- or at least doesn't call into question -- what we are seeing night after night on telecasts of Iowa games or in MSM coverage afterwards.
 
ChosenChildren said:
When the number one representative of Hawkeye Nation thinks that the coach needs to go, you better pay attention.

Jon is going out on a limb here, but knows more than he is letting on.
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What he has said is that he waits until the end of the season to make judgments. It's the end of the season.

He's not going out on a limb. 2/3's of the posters on HN have been saying Lichliter needs to go.

The ol' proverb of "lead, follow, or get out of the way" based on 3 years of data . . . he's decided to put his voice toward at the lead dog.
 
storminspank said:
I'm not a soothsayer, but if I'm good at reading people at all, I think Fuller stays. 40-60% chance to stay is a little low IMO.
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I'm genuinely curious: From what exposure are you reading Fuller, and what did he do or say in that exposure that causes you to read him in any particular way?

You may well be right about him. I've never met him, never interviewed him. Only heard him say he isn't leaving, and what (if anything) that answer is worth has already been discussed at length.

I will say this, though: I saw something in the second half of the Minnesota game that really caught my eye and I had written a lengthy post about it that day that I just trashed because objectively it was far too thin to base any judgment on. However, here's what it was: For a good part of the second half Fuller had a look on his face that I would describe as tormented, and not just passively unhappy. When I first saw it I wondered if he was physically injured and trying to play through it. Maybe he was, but if so his play in no way reflected it. If you have the tape a good time to see that look is when he got fouled going to the hoop and shot two FT's, missing the first and making the second, about midway through the second half. The camera followed him in close-up as he walked from under the basket all the way out beyond the three point line, and back to the FT stripe. He looked like he was battling a demon.

Of all the unhappy looks I've seen on our players' faces in all the losses this season, that look appeared more to me as one that said "I want this to end" than any other I've seen. Yes, we were losing by 30 and any competitor would hate that, standing alone. But this look seemed to be something more than that.

So, I will not be surprised if it turns out there's something to the Fuller rumors after all.

Now, I challenge anyone to express an opinion on this subject based on flimsier evidence than that. :p On the other hand, at least it's not hearsay...
 
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FreddyBrown said:
I'm genuinely curious: From what exposure are you reading Fuller, and what did he do or say in that exposure that causes you to read him in any particular way?

You may well be right about him. I've never met him, never interviewed him. Only heard him say he isn't leaving, and what (if anything) that answer is worth has already been discussed at length.

I will say this, though: I saw something in the second half of the Minnesota game that really caught my eye and I had written a lengthy post about it that day that I just trashed because objectively it was far too thin to base any judgment on. However, here's what it was: For a good part of the second half Fuller had a look on his face that I would describe as tormented, and not just passively unhappy. When I first saw it I wondered if he was physically injured and trying to play through it. Maybe he was, but if so his play in no way reflected it. If you have the tape a good time to see that look is when he got fouled going to the hoop and shot two FT's, missing the first and making the second, about midway through the second half. The camera followed him in close-up as he walked from under the basket all the way out beyond the three point line, and back to the FT stripe. He looked like he was battling a demon.

Of all the unhappy looks I've seen on our players' faces in all the losses this season, that look appeared more to me as one that said "I want this to end" than any other I've seen. Yes, we were losing by 30 and any competitor would hate that, standing alone. But this look seemed to be something more than that.

So, I will not be surprised if it turns out there's something to the Fuller rumors after all.

Now, I challenge anyone to express an opinion on this subject based on flimsier evidence than that. :p On the other hand, at least it's not hearsay...
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Dude, with Iowa's performance that day to not be emotionally expressive would be a clear warning of lack of commitment to the program. Having the look that he wanted it to be over could mean he doesn't want to play for Iowa any more, but it could just as well mean he doesn't want to see Iowa every play like that again. Whether or not it's in the best interest for him to leave, some people are loyal to their previous commitments, by next week we should know if he is still on board.
 
Watching Hoosiers on WGN America. Turned it on when voting on the coach staying or going. Too bad we don't have Jimmy Chitwood! He can walk in and change the vote! :)

Almost time for the picket fence!
 
Very good show this morning Jon. I am 35 and remember Jeff Moe being my favorite player. Now I don't even pay attention to the recruits coming in because I'm not sure they will be at Iowa for 4 years. I guess we will find out a lot tomorrow if it looks like a team that shows up to play or wants the season to be done.
 
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