Interesting Yet Disturbing Post from OSU Board

Section136 said:
Really? Wasnt SMU pretty much "pay for play" type of stuff.

Also, OSU was tats/cash for memoribilia.

USC and Reggie Bush had nothing to do with recruiting, IIRC.
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Ok, add paying players illegal benefits but I think you can wrap that into recruiting as well. Point still stands.

You're arguing for what you want to see happen. I'm arguing what history shows will happen. Some of you are setting yourselves up to being ****** off in a few years.
 
Clark said:
Ok, add paying players illegal benefits but I think you can wrap that into recruiting as well. Point still stands.

You're arguing for what you want to see happen. I'm arguing what history shows will happen. Some of you are setting themselves up to being ****** off in a few years.
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As boat said, history hasnt really seen anything like this ever.

What else do you want to add to your list?
 
silvanthalas said:
Beyond what others have already mentioned, can you say with a straight face that the Baylor & Bliss sanctions were only due to recruiting violations and such? That the murder of one of the players and subsequent cover-up had nothing to do with it?

But as I've said, after the NCAA decided to fire blanks at OSU, I expect next to nothing from them, regardless.
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Oh, I'm sure it had almost everything to do with those murders. Even with MURDER, the NCAA needed something as trivial as recruiting violations to punish Baylor. By the way, have you noticed how well Baylor's basketball program is doing?
 
Section136 said:
As boat said, history hasnt really seen anything like this ever.

What else do you want to add to your list?
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Nothing. Dexter explained it better than I did anyway. The NCAA doesn't handle anything other than cheating. I think you're going to be bitterly disappointed in a few years.
 
Section136 said:
Really? Wasnt SMU pretty much "pay for play" type of stuff.

Also, OSU was tats/cash for memoribilia.

USC and Reggie Bush had nothing to do with recruiting, IIRC.
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Ok, recruiting and taking improper benefits which is against the NCAA rules. NCAA rules are all about cheating in recruiting or violating amateur status, i.e. getting payed to play, selling gear for money, getting a house for your mom.

NCAA does not have laws against crimes, otherwise they could have punished Iowa among other schools for their athletes getting arrested. If NCAA were to do anything PSU could almost certainly take them to court and win.
 
Clark said:
Oh, I'm sure it had almost everything to do with those murders. Even with MURDER, the NCAA needed something as trivial as recruiting violations to punish Baylor. By the way, have you noticed how well Baylor's basketball program is doing?
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I don't think the two are even close to the same level. Everything with Baylor ssemed to point to one guy, Bliss. Him and the school were punished for his lone actions. The murder was not a result of his actions, only the incident that shined the light on the other wrongdoings.

This is the absolute definition of lack of institutional control as it appears that it involved almost every aspect of the institution.

If what was said by the PSU poster ends up being even 25% true (I have a harder time believing that nobody knew about it than I do that everybody knew about it), then this will get a lot worse for PSU before it gets better.
 
theboat said:
I don't think the two are even close to the same level. Everything with Baylor ssemed to point to one guy, Bliss. The school was punished for his lone actions.

This is the absolute definition of lack of institutional control as it appears that it involved almost every aspect of the institution.

If what was said by the PSU poster ends up being even 25% true (I have a harder time believing that nobody knew about it than I do that everybody knew about it), then this will get a lot worse for PSU before it gets better.
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I agree with tehboat!

Mark it down: 1:07PM, June 26th, 2012. (Happens to be my anniversary today, so I shall never forget.) :D
 
silvanthalas said:
Beyond what others have already mentioned, can you say with a straight face that the Baylor & Bliss sanctions were only due to recruiting violations and such? That the murder of one of the players and subsequent cover-up had nothing to do with it?

But as I've said, after the NCAA decided to fire blanks at OSU, I expect next to nothing from them, regardless.
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The sanctions had nothing to do with the murder. Bliss was paying kids to play at Baylor, numerious recruiting violations, and was hiding the fact that kids were testing positive for drugs. Then on top of that he lied to NCAA about potential violations and tried to get others to lie about it as well. That is a as big of a violation you could find. That stuff was uncovered because of investigation after the murder. If they uncover that PSU was cheating and breaking NCAA rules then they will get punished. But if there are no NCAA violations, they have no way to punish PSU.
 
theboat said:
I don't think the two are even close to the same level. Everything with Baylor ssemed to point to one guy, Bliss. Him and the school were punished for his lone actions. The murder was not a result of his actions, only the incident that shined the light on the other wrongdoings.

This is the absolute definition of lack of institutional control as it appears that it involved almost every aspect of the institution.

If what was said by the PSU poster ends up being even 25% true (I have a harder time believing that nobody knew about it than I do that everybody knew about it), then this will get a lot worse for PSU before it gets better.
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But it really has nothing to do with the on the field product. If a professor was sleeping with students for grades that would be lack on institutional control, do you think the NCAA would punish the PSU athletic department for that? The NCAA is there (supposedly) to maintain an equal playing field. Again, I'd be more surprised if they did get NCAA sanctions that if they didn't, and I think I'd agree with that decision.
 
Scorpio79 said:
I agree with tehboat!

Mark it down: 1:07PM, June 26th, 2012. (Happens to be my anniversary today, so I shall never forget.) :D
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I think this is just the first time you are willing to admit it. ;)


Happy Anniversary too!!.
(another year that you haven't run out of chloroform. :))
 
Sorry,but I think if the NCAA tried to levy the death penalty on PSU,PSU would have a solid case in court. NCAA regulations address making sure schools do not have gain competitive advantage thru rule-breaking.

In NCAA parlance ''lack of institional control'' refers to creating an environment where NCAA rules are not enforced,not to an environment where state laws are broken.
That is the legal authorities job.
 
Once again Dexter says it better than me. Maybe I'll hire him to do my posting for me :)


This is going to sound crass and I apologize for that in advance, not sure how else to word it: Show me in the NCAA rulebook where it says a coach can't knowingly harbor a child molester.
 
The NCAA may not have any teeth when it comes to PSU, but the B1G will definitely have a say in what happens to Penn State once it's all said and done. Their attorneys have been involved in it from the get go and if what has been thrown around here regarding higher ups (school president, athletic director, etc) knowing and covering up, then I wouldn't be surprised at all if the B1G brings down the hammer. Without looking at the specifics of the by-laws and whatnot of membership responsibility, I've got to believe there's something in there that the B1G could use.

Will be interesting to see how it all turns out.
 
DexterMorgan said:
But it really has nothing to do with the on the field product. If a professor was sleeping with students for grades that would be lack on institutional control, do you think the NCAA would punish the PSU athletic department for that? The NCAA is there (supposedly) to maintain an equal playing field. Again, I'd be more surprised if they did get NCAA sanctions that if they didn't, and I think I'd agree with that decision.
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The incident itself does nothing for on the field product, but the cover-up definitely does.

If a coach covers up a crime for a player so that the player doesn't have to miss time it would have an effect on the product on the field don't you think?

Same thing as if the institution covers up a crime for a coach.
 
Clark said:
People need to give up the notion that PSU is going to be destroyed by this. They've got a top 15 recruiting class the year after it happened.
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I don't want PSU destroyed. This is one Hawk fan who thinks the league, including Iowa is stronger with a PSU that is scandal-free. That said, Joe-Pa's legacy needs to re-examined, if he is more involved.

I want to know why there are even athletic directors at these institutions. OSU's AD provides cover against violations-he should just get paid from the boosters and bypass the institution all together. PSU's former AD covers up child abuse. Are they necessary? Barta was less useful than Ferentz during the rhabdo problems...in fact, I think he stalled and did not address it until KF got to town. Does UNI need an AD as they cut sports? Overpaid middle management who do not appear to have their salaries cut even while sports are slashed at places like UNI and ISU. And don't get me started on Asst. ADs. I still have no idea what Fred Mims does/has done for 20-ish yrs.
 
theboat said:
The incident itself does nothing for on the field product, but the cover-up definitely does.

If a coach covers up a crime for a player so that the player doesn't have to miss time it would have an effect on the product on the field don't you think?

Same thing as if the institution covers up a crime for a coach.
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Yeah, I mentioned earlier I thought they could possibly go after them that way, I still don't see it though.
 
SpiderRico said:
The NCAA may not have any teeth when it comes to PSU, but the B1G will definitely have a say in what happens to Penn State once it's all said and done. Their attorneys have been involved in it from the get go and if what has been thrown around here regarding higher ups (school president, athletic director, etc) knowing and covering up, then I wouldn't be surprised at all if the B1G brings down the hammer. Without looking at the specifics of the by-laws and whatnot of membership responsibility, I've got to believe there's something in there that the B1G could use.

Will be interesting to see how it all turns out.
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Could certainly see the Big Ten doing something as I'm sure there's something in there about tarnishing the brand.
 
kirby said:
I don't want PSU destroyed. This is one Hawk fan who thinks the league, including Iowa is stronger with a PSU that is scandal-free. That said, Joe-Pa's legacy needs to re-examined, if he is more involved.

I want to know why there are even athletic directors at these institutions. OSU's AD just provides cover against violations-he should just get paid from the boosters and bypass the institution all together. PSU's former AD covers up child abuse. Are they necessary? Barta was less useful than Ferentz during the rhabdo problems...in fact, I think he stalled and did not address it until KF got to town. Does UNI need an AD as they cut sports? Overpaid middle management who do not appear to have their salaries cut even while sports are slashed at places like UNI and ISU. And don't get me started on Asst. ADs. I still have no idea what Fred Mims does/has done for 20-ish yrs.
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Slight thread derailment here but the AD's first and primary responsibility is to raise money.
 
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