I have new respect for how difficult Rob/Jon's job is.

[lightning1]

Look...

Football ticket revenue in 2017 was $24.1million

Basketball ticket revenue was $3.7 million.

These are numbers from the athletics operating budget, published by the BOR. They're not made up guesses by me.

You told us that if Kinnick Stadium were 15% emptier and CHA were half empty it'd put the athletic department upside down.

Using your numbers that'd decrease revenue by $5.5 million (I'm not spelling the math out but feel free to correct me), and that's assuming Kinninck and CHA are full every game right now which they most definitely are not. If you think a decrease in revenue of $5.5 million is going to impact the AD in any meaningful way you are fucking high. In addition, revenue from the Big Ten in 2018 jumps from $36 million to over $50 million. As far as your statement on donations, the BOR has already budgeted a 6.9% decrease in 2018 for the reason you mentioned, and 2018 is still balanced to the dollar. There's no "in the red" that's going to happen to Iowa sports from ticket sales or donations any time soon.

I get your sentiment and I think Barta should be run out of town on the Hawkeye Express, but use facts, man. It would sure look bad if the stadiums were empty and Barta would face heat for it, but it isn't going to affect operations in any way.

I wasn't able to find recent data and didn't think to look to the BOR. But the basketball ticket revenue number is misleading, as it does not take into consideration concessions, parking or mandatory donations for premium seating. Correct? Same with football tickets? How do we get ALL of the numbers?

 

[lightning1]

I'll also add to my above post that the BOR and President (Barta's bosses) don't give two shits how much the athletic department makes or spends as long as it breaks even and isn't involved in any scandals. Any decrease in revenue will be met by a matching decrease in expenses.

It's not like the hospital or law school will have to start limiting electricity or fixing broken toilets instead of ordering new ones because sports money has no (direct financial) bearing on the U and it's not paid for with taxes. The athletic department is small, small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

How do you decrease expenses when the budget is planned for the next fiscal year? They don't release season ticket renewals early enough to know what to count on. Do they? You said so yourself. 2018 is already budgeted to the dollar. There is no way to decide who is going to purchase season tickets for next basketball season, is there?

 

[RobHowe]

You can't ignore the fact that there has been multiple times someone on this team has turned it over and then just slumped their shoulders or pouted instead of getting back on defense.

Not ignoring it. It happens. I wouldn't say it's the norm, though. I think, for the most part, this team plays hard.

 

[earlkoppelman]

This was pretty much the reaction I had to the answers on the mailbag podcast yesterday. The administration sees sports as a golden goose/cash cow that they're not willing to kill but is otherwise unwanted. They'll put on a good outer front to appease the rubes and keep them buying tickets and maybe they'll get lucky and win a few games every once in a while, but otherwise their goals are to make money and to not embarrass the school or get in the way of anything else.

Now if you want to spend money on what is essentially a nice distraction to the inanity of daily life, I can't blame you. You're responsible for what you do with your money and if you want Iowa sports on the same level that some people want to go see the next Star Wars movie, then knock yourself out. But if you think that you're going to get a sports mountaintop experience in the next few years or that the department wants to win as much as the fans do, you're fooling yourself. They want to sell tickets to fanatics. That's it.

You SAY what I think.....Power and Money are only GOAL. STILL suggest to them "WATCH" Treasure of Sierra Madre and take NOTES...A regular BIC not a flashly GOLD OK?

 

[Fryowa]

But the basketball ticket revenue number is misleading, as it does not take into consideration concessions, parking or mandatory donations for premium seating. Correct? Same with football tickets? How do we get ALL of the numbers?

Actually the number I gave for ticket revenue is all basketball (and football for that figure) income. Virtually all of it is ticket sales but it includes other small things. Ticket revenue is actually slightly lower than what I posted.

Premium seat donations are a separate line item on the budget and were also decreased for 2018. I don't know exactly how seat fees are treated for tax deductability, but the figure was decreased in the budget nonetheless.

If you want all of the numbers just check out the budget. Every dollar in and out (budgeted) is right there. 2018 has just over $117M in revenue and the same in expenses. Contrary to what some believe, there's no public money involved, and there isn't a "savings account" with a balance that's going to be overdrawn if tickets aren't sold. No government shutdown due to half full stadiums. Obviously if there were some monstrous decrease in revenue then some areas would have smaller individual budgets, but I think people greatly underestimate the amount of money involved here with Big Ten and broadcasting income. A few million dollars is a drop in a lake.

 

[Fryowa]

How do you decrease expenses when the budget is planned for the next fiscal year?They don't release season ticket renewals early enough to know what to count on. Do they? You said so yourself.

People with a whole lot more experience than you or me at budgeting billions of dollars, who are provided decision-making information from people a whole lot closer to the athletic department than you or me have a pretty good handle on it. In the past, actual vs. budgeted money is measured in fractions of a percent. I'd say that's pretty close and pretty reliable.

2018 is already budgeted to the dollar. There is no way to decide who is going to purchase season tickets for next basketball season, is there?

There's plenty of prior history, at both good and bad times in Hawkeye basketball (or football) to make those decisions on. Do you have some information the rest of us aren't privy to?

I know you'd like to see Carver empty and Barta get fired, but if you had to bet your children's lives on it do you think it will happen?

Aside from that, like I mentioned before...even if you cut basketball ticket sales in half, the AD will still function as normal (financially). The Big Ten money's still coming in, donors still gonna donate, and broadcasting/marketing dollars are still in the mail. All of that stuff absolutely dwarfs ticket sales and it's not going away. In fact, it will grow.

 

[Hawk5656]

Not ignoring it. It happens. I wouldn't say it's the norm, though. I think, for the most part, this team plays hard.

Honestly I think this team is the laziest team Fran has coached here.

 

[lightning1]

Actually the number I gave for ticket revenue is all basketball (and football for that figure) income. Virtually all of it is ticket sales but it includes other small things. Ticket revenue is actually slightly lower than what I posted.

Premium seat donations are a separate line item on the budget and were also decreased for 2018. I don't know exactly how seat fees are treated for tax deductability, but the figure was decreased in the budget nonetheless.

If you want all of the numbers just check out the budget. Every dollar in and out (budgeted) is right there. 2018 has just over $117M in revenue and the same in expenses. Contrary to what some believe, there's no public money involved, and there isn't a "savings account" with a balance that's going to be overdrawn if tickets aren't sold. No government shutdown due to half full stadiums. Obviously if there were some monstrous decrease in revenue then some areas would have smaller individual budgets, but I think people greatly underestimate the amount of money involved here with Big Ten and broadcasting income. A few million dollars is a drop in a lake.

OK. So, you're saying that IF basketball ticket sales fall an additional 2000 less than they budgeted for, the AD will cut costs somewhere else to make up that shortfall?
Also, that 3.7 million figure for Mens basketball ticket sales, (total for the entire season) does not add up.
let's just use a total sold attendance number of 12,000 per game @ $15 per ticket (which we both know doesn't come close to the prices for the bottom 15 rows on both sides of the court)
12,000 tickets @ 15 home games for $15 per ticket = $2,700,000
That doesn't include the minimum donation, parking or concessions.
large drink = $5
Large popcorn = $7
parking = $10
lets say that there is 1 parking fee for 1/3 of the people. = $600,000 for the season
1 large drink and 1 large popcorn for 1/3 of the people = $720,000 for the season
2,700,000 + 600,000 + $720,000 = $4 mil +. If you want to take a guess at the premium seat prices and minimum donations, I'd suggest you can double it to around $8 mil per season.
That doesn't include minimum donations or higher ticket prices for premium seating or any other concession item. I know when I took my family of 4, it was 4 large drinks, 2 large popcorns and 2 ice creams. I was good for a $50 bill on top of my tickets, every home game! I'm guessing I am more the norm than the exception in the concessions sales.
Where are you finding the yearly budget numbers for the AD? Link?

 

[lightning1]

People with a whole lot more experience than you or me at budgeting billions of dollars, who are provided decision-making information from people a whole lot closer to the athletic department than you or me have a pretty good handle on it. In the past, actual vs. budgeted money is measured in fractions of a percent. I'd say that's pretty close and pretty reliable.



There's plenty of prior history, at both good and bad times in Hawkeye basketball (or football) to make those decisions on. Do you have some information the rest of us aren't privy to?

I know you'd like to see Carver empty and Barta get fired, but if you had to bet your children's lives on it do you think it will happen?

Aside from that, like I mentioned before...even if you cut basketball ticket sales in half, the AD will still function as normal (financially). The Big Ten money's still coming in, donors still gonna donate, and broadcasting/marketing dollars are still in the mail. All of that stuff absolutely dwarfs ticket sales and it's not going away. In fact, it will grow.

I can agree with everything but the "it's not going away" comment. With people cutting the cord in record numbers and the likes of ESPN going broke due to huge TV contracts, do you really expect that number to keep going up? Or even staying the same?

 

[Fryowa]

Where are you finding the yearly budget numbers for the AD? Link?

Here ya go. Knock yerself out.

We can argue numbers all you want, but the fact is that ticket sales, popcorn, and hot dogs aren’t the major money generator. Not by a looooooong shot. Back in the 80s? Yep. In today’s world of huge network and conference contracts? No way.

 

[Fryowa]

OK. So, you're saying that IF basketball ticket sales fall an additional 2000 less than they budgeted for, the AD will cut costs somewhere else to make up that shortfall?

You’re confusing the budget with the actual income statement and balance sheet.

The point of this whole bunch of hooey is that...

1) Ticket sales aren’t going to drop through the floor, and

2) Even if they did it’s small potatoes. Conference money has been way, way more than sport-generated income for several years and that money is going to be there for the foreseeable future and will keep going up.

I don’t know what you consider cord cutting to be, but diehard sports fans who “cut the cord” are going to internet services like Sling and PSVue where they still pay for and watch sports networks. It’s just not on dish or cable. This year the B1G payout increased by over $15 million dollars for Christ’s sake. The increase alone is 5 times what the basketball team pulls in, think about that. Some more empty seats won’t do shit.

 

[Seth53]

I'll add....I agree that empty seats (with subsequent food sales, etc) don't really matter in this day and age of stratospheric TV and league contracts. It's a monetary spit in the ocean.

However, what the empty seats do represent IMO is apathy of potential donors. If they're not going because of the product on the field/court, there is probably a corresponding decrease in donations to the school.

And that worries the suits at any school.

 

[lightning1]

Here ya go. Knock yerself out.

We can argue numbers all you want, but the fact is that ticket sales, popcorn, and hot dogs aren’t the major money generator. Not by a looooooong shot. Back in the 80s? Yep. In today’s world of huge network and conference contracts? No way.

What is that chart telling us? Which line is actual costs and which line is actual revenue? Thanks.

 

[CJHawkeye]

Not ignoring it. It happens. I wouldn't say it's the norm, though. I think, for the most part, this team plays hard.

For next year, I'd prefer to think they're not. If this is maximum effort forget it. Burn it down.

 

[lightning1]

You’re confusing the budget with the actual income statement and balance sheet.

The point of this whole bunch of hooey is that...

1) Ticket sales aren’t going to drop through the floor, and

2) Even if they did it’s small potatoes. Conference money has been way, way more than sport-generated income for several years and that money is going to be there for the foreseeable future and will keep going up.

I don’t know what you consider cord cutting to be, but diehard sports fans who “cut the cord” are going to internet services like Sling and PSVue where they still pay for and watch sports networks. It’s just not on dish or cable. This year the B1G payout increased by over $15 million dollars for Christ’s sake. The increase alone is 5 times what the basketball team pulls in, think about that. Some more empty seats won’t do shit.

It's not hooey. I've seen past actual income and balance sheets. The margin of profitability has always been about 3 or 4%. There is 15 or 20 million more in the pot, thanks to the current projections from BIG network profit sharing. So, that might make fan support obsolete. Until I see the actual balance sheet, I won't know. Do you have that balance sheet from 2016?

 

[CJHawkeye]

Fan support at games is not about money. At some point it becomes embarrassing to the administration, even one that doesn't care about winning.

 

[homes]

Not ignoring it. It happens. I wouldn't say it's the norm, though. I think, for the most part, this team plays hard.

Accepting this as true, then isn't the logical conclusion that they're either 1) poorly coached or 2) not talented enough to compete at the top of the BT, or both?

 

[CJHawkeye]

Accepting this as true, then isn't the logical conclusion that they're either 1) poorly coached or 2) not talented enough to compete at the top of the BT, or both?

This is the kind of stuff that infuriates me about the Iowa sports media. We can't simultaneously:

1. Have a good coach
2. Have B1G caliber players
3. Have players that are playing hard
4. Be 11th or 12th in the conference

It is not possible for all of those things to be true. So why do we have to constantly read stories and listen to post game pressers that make it clear the media is not willing to force this conversation?

 

[RobHowe]

Accepting this as true, then isn't the logical conclusion that they're either 1) poorly coached or 2) not talented enough to compete at the top of the BT, or both?

In a previous post in this thread, I said that I don't think the struggles are a lack of effort, for the most part, but more it just not being a good team. There are some talented pieces but, overall, their are too many deficiencies, most notably on the defensive end. I added that ultimately, that's on the coaches. They recruit the players and teach them.

Is this team playing with 100 percent max effort all the time? No. And that's hard to do when you're getting sand kicked in your face continuously. But it's my opinion that poor effort isn't the main reason this team is losing. I don't think it's lazy. I don't think it's good enough for a variety of reasons.

 

[lightning1]

This is the kind of stuff that infuriates me about the Iowa sports media. We can't simultaneously:

1. Have a good coach
2. Have B1G caliber players
3. Have players that are playing hard
4. Be 11th or 12th in the conference

It is not possible for all of those things to be true. So why do we have to constantly read stories and listen to post game pressers that make it clear the media is not willing to force this conversation?

We're little ol' Iowa. We can't do any better.