I am sorry if this sounds mean spirited....

[Playmaker]

Good lord....I am SORRY for posting links to recruits....what I am not sorry is calling out Ferments for lazy recruiting when he is making a salary that is way out of line for results. His brand of football is why our leading receivers are always TE's and backs.

Vogs - Great coaches do not have 10x more losses as a double digit favorite than any other BigTen coach. I wish that I still had those stats that Hlas published a few years ago...they were jaw dropping.

Knight - Those players you mention are light years better in talent than the current bunch, but they still got beat to the corners on offense and defense the whole game long against SC in the Orange Bowl. Happens almost every time we end up in a big time bowl.

It is hilarious how many of you are like Pawk feel that Rob needs your help....if my post had come on the heels of the Michigan St. game, nothing would have been said....that is how hot and cold Iowa fans run. One last time, I did not personally attempt to rip the two recruits....it was Ferments recruiting practices. I am sorry if it is next to impossible to separate the two.

 

[Adam]

Jeesh cry me a river. Iowa fans are the only people in the world that think Iowa should be competing for the B1G year in and year out. Such is fandom. Truth is we are about as good and as consistent as our birthright allows. The only way we get better is if Payton Manning decides to come coach here or we cheat our asses off. We don't have the brand necessary to pull in top 10 recruiting classes except for rare blue moons. Yet our fans continually sob on their pillow about unfulfilled expectations. Vegas pegged us for 6 wins this year. That should be your expectation. College athletics is specifically about the "story" kids. It is supposed to represent the good things about sports. So if all you care about is winning every football game then I am done with you. To me being a Hawkeye means actually caring about the institution and the young men that enrich their lives here and the remarkable journeys they take. I for one will not have my last few games watching Wadley and Jewel be tainted by the pity cloud some of you let hang over your head. BTW both of the aforementioned are "story" kids.

 

[DMLadyhawk]

Jeesh cry me a river. Iowa fans are the only people in the world that think Iowa should be competing for the B1G year in and year out. Such is fandom. Truth is we are about as good and as consistent as our birthright allows. The only way we get better is if Payton Manning decides to come coach here or we cheat our asses off. We don't have the brand necessary to pull in top 10 recruiting classes except for rare blue moons. Yet our fans continually sob on their pillow about unfulfilled expectations. Vegas pegged us for 6 wins this year. That should be your expectation. College athletics is specifically about the "story" kids. It is supposed to represent the good things about sports. So if all you care about is winning every football game then I am done with you. To me being a Hawkeye means actually caring about the institution and the young men that enrich their lives here and the remarkable journeys they take. I for one will not have my last few games watching Wadley and Jewel be tainted by the pity cloud some of you let hang over your head. BTW both of the aforementioned are "story" kids.

Mic drop

 

[HomerChampless]

Just remember we're Iowa, we can't expect better than an offense that ranks near the bottom of the entire nation. We just can't get the type of players to score points here.

I still say if we have an offense that ranks right in the middle of the nation we win 8-9-10 games a year with our schedule. This is with the "feel good story" recruits we get.

And even better, we're more fun to watch. If we're going to settle for 7-8 wins a season, can we at least have a team that's fun to watch?

This is a hilarious thread. So many football geniuses on this board.

The main difference between Iowa's football program and perennial B1G West rep Wisky's football program is defense. Wisky perennially has a dominant defense and Iowa does not. The goal of Wisky's defense is to get off the field and the goal of Iowa's defense is to bend but not break and stay on the field for great stretches of the game.

Iowa's offense, even during the Greg Davis years, was much more potent than Wisky's offense is. Wisky and Iowa run the same type of run-first offense although Wisky showcases their player's athleticism on offense and defense more so than Iowa.

Wisky and Iowa recruit the same type of athletic players.

The difference is the defense. Not the offense.

 

[deanvogs]

Vogs - Great coaches do not have 10x more losses as a double digit favorite than any other BigTen coach. I wish that I still had those stats that Hlas published a few years ago...they were jaw dropping.

You say KF is a lazy recruiter. The statistics say you are an idiot for such an assertion. How can a lazy recruiter have more or nearly as many wins over the last 16 years as Michigan, Penn St., Nebraska and Michigan St.? You say KF is a lazy recruiter, if that is the case how has KF put nearly as many player or more players in the NFL than Nebraska, Michigan, Penn St. and Michigan St. over the last 16 years?

 

[hawkdrummer1]

This is a hilarious thread...

Indeed.

The OP's use of the term "mean-spirited" was the first chuckle.

 

[Playmaker]

Vogs - He isn't getting paid close to 5 million to put players in the NFL....he is getting paid to win big at Iowa. Big is not 7-5 and a smoke and mirrors season once out of every 6 or 7.

 

[deanvogs]

Vogs - He isn't getting paid close to 5 million to put players in the NFL....he is getting paid to win big at Iowa. Big is not 7-5 and a smoke and mirrors season once out of every 6 or 7.

You are really bad at math. KF has 6 top 20 finishes, and he has coached 18 full years at Iowa. That means he has a "smoke and mirror" season at Iowa every 3 years. 6-7 years, where the *uck did you learn to do math?

Jim Harbaugh is getting 9 million a year and he has won 24 games since hitting the Michigan campus. Ferentz has 24 wins as well in that exact same time period and is 1-0 vs Harbaugh head to head.

Over the last 10 years Ferentz has averaged 8 wins a year. Over the last 16 years Ferentz has averaged 8.2 wins per year. On that track record alone, and that fact Ferentz has matched Harbaugh's record, he is actually UNDER paid. Yep, I went there.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

This is a hilarious thread. So many football geniuses on this board.

The main difference between Iowa's football program and perennial B1G West rep Wisky's football program is defense. Wisky perennially has a dominant defense and Iowa does not. The goal of Wisky's defense is to get off the field and the goal of Iowa's defense is to bend but not break and stay on the field for great stretches of the game.

Iowa's offense, even during the Greg Davis years, was much more potent than Wisky's offense is. Wisky and Iowa run the same type of run-first offense although Wisky showcases their player's athleticism on offense and defense more so than Iowa.

Wisky and Iowa recruit the same type of athletic players.

The difference is the defense. Not the offense.

I'd love to see scoring defense comparison over last 10-15 years.

I think you're wrong.

 

[HomerChampless]

I'd love to see scoring defense comparison over last 10-15 years.

I think you're wrong.

Scoring defense against most but to a lesser degree than 10 years ago B1G offenses is no great feat benefitting Wisky's D as well. This year's Michigan offense reminds me of an Iowa or Wisconsin grind-it-out running offense.

What is Iowa's scoring D against their upcoming opponent? I do know Iowa's D always has a problem keeping the scoring low against Northwestern. What's Wisky's scoring D against Northwestern? I think last season's game between the two was won with less than 10 points.

Iowa's D plays each game like the opponent's offense is so much better. Each play attempts to keep the ball carrier in from of them. Backpedaling. Taking time off the clock that Iowa's offense can't use. BTW, one instance where Wisky should've used the Iowa style of prevent defense is in the championship game against Pedo State. Every time PSU passed, Wisky DBs failed to cover the pass.

Finally, an Iowa defense that doesn't use the athleticism of its players will have a hard time recruiting quality athletes who would rather go somewhere else to show their athleticism to the world and possibly have a pro career.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Scoring defense against most but to a lesser degree than 10 years ago B1G offenses is no great feat benefitting Wisky's D as well. This year's Michigan offense reminds me of an Iowa or Wisconsin grind-it-out running offense.

What is Iowa's scoring D against their upcoming opponent? I do know Iowa's D always has a problem keeping the scoring low against Northwestern. What's Wisky's scoring D against Northwestern? I think last season's game between the two was won with less than 10 points.

Iowa's D plays each game like the opponent's offense is so much better. Each play attempts to keep the ball carrier in from of them. Backpedaling. Taking time off the clock that Iowa's offense can't use. BTW, one instance where Wisky should've used the Iowa style of prevent defense is in the championship game against Pedo State. Every time PSU passed, Wisky DBs failed to cover the pass.

Finally, an Iowa defense that doesn't use the athleticism of its players will have a hard time recruiting quality athletes who would rather go somewhere else to show their athleticism to the world and possibly have a pro career.

Yeah, still don't think defense is the issue. And the numbers, stats back that up.

 

[Playmaker]

Vogs - All I know is Ferments is overrated and most certainly overpaid for the effort he puts into recruiting,,,,you can not expect to reach the next level by continually having to play your A game with a bunch of 2 Stars.

 

[deanvogs]

Vogs - All I know is Ferments is overrated and most certainly overpaid for the effort he puts into recruiting,,,,you can not expect to reach the next level by continually having to play your A game with a bunch of 2 Stars.

I would contend that even the teams that do recruit at a very high level STILL don't punch through to the "next level". and have better than KF results. See the results over the last 16 years that I keep quoting. Nebraska recruits at a top 20-25 level, and they have nearly the same amount of wins as Iowa over 16 years. Heck Michigan recruits at an elite level, and they have been stuck at Iowa's level for the last 16 years as well. Tennessee has recruited at an elite level under Butch Jones. Since Jones stepped on campus in 2013, Iowa has 39 wins and Tennessee has 33 wins. Lets see what Jones had to work with while at Tennessee, here are the recruiting class from 3 years before he hit campus til now, these are National rankings from 247 starting in 2010: (#7, #14, #19, #25, #7, #4, #14, #17, Currently sit at #6 for this year).

It isn't easy getting to the "next level". I would argue that to be in that "next Level" that Ferentz has to be OSU good or Wisconsin good, because KF has nearly as many or more wins that every BigTen school except those two over the last 10 and 16 years. One really isn't possible, we will never, ever recruit like a OSU or Tennessee for that matter. What Wisconsin has done is simply amazing, and I do have Wisconsin envy for sure.

Do I wish we recruited better? Sure I do, it makes fans feel great getting those high 3* and 4* kids. Do I wish we all of a sudden only got the 4* Reggie Spearmans and Greg Garmons of the world, and missed out on 2* Jewell and Wadley? No, I don't.

 

[vork22]

I would contend that even the teams that do recruit at a very high level STILL don't punch through to the "next level". and have better than KF results. See the results over the last 16 years that I keep quoting. Nebraska recruits at a top 20-25 level, and they have nearly the same amount of wins as Iowa over 16 years. Heck Michigan recruits at an elite level, and they have been stuck at Iowa's level for the last 16 years as well. Tennessee has recruited at an elite level under Butch Jones. Since Jones stepped on campus in 2013, Iowa has 39 wins and Tennessee has 33 wins. Lets see what Jones had to work with while at Tennessee, here are the recruiting class from 3 years before he hit campus til now, these are National rankings from 247 starting in 2010: (#7, #14, #19, #25, #7, #4, #14, #17, Currently sit at #6 for this year).

It isn't easy getting to the "next level". I would argue that to be in that "next Level" that Ferentz has to be OSU good or Wisconsin good, because KF has nearly as many or more wins that every BigTen school except those two over the last 10 and 16 years. One really isn't possible, we will never, ever recruit like a OSU or Tennessee for that matter. What Wisconsin has done is simply amazing, and I do have Wisconsin envy for sure.

Do I wish we recruited better? Sure I do, it makes fans feel great getting those high 3* and 4* kids. Do I wish we all of a sudden only got the 4* Reggie Spearmans and Greg Garmons of the world, and missed out on 2* Jewell and Wadley? No, I don't.

The problem with the Michigan Harbaugh argument is they play in the East. If Michigan is in the West they probably would be in the championship almost every year. Put Iowa in the East and we are Indiana.

 

[uihawk82]

Just what exactly is this "next level"? How do you define it?

The next level is expecting to be undefeated deep into the season, every season, and realizing those expectations on a regular basis. The hawks did this in 2002, 2009 and 2015 which isnt bad but the next level would be 8-0 many and most years.

Wisconsin is there many times now, MSU was there but crashed last year and Notre Dame exposed them this year.

OSU is there, Michigan if they keep winning this year might be back, PSU is back to doing this.

That is the next level which means not having to reload each year and re-develop.

 

[HomerChampless]

Yeah, still don't think defense is the issue. And the numbers, stats back that up.

Meh...Northwestern loves to get their offensive players into space. Iowa's D allows players to get into space. Wisconsin, on the other hand, attacks the other's offense...attacks Northwestern's offense.

For example, I looked up the scores of the two games in the 2016 season between Northwestern, Iowa and Wisconsin: Wisconsin 21 Northwestern 7. Northwestern 38 Iowa 31. Of the two, which D had a better scored upon statistic against Northwestern in 2016? Of the two, which D always has a better scored upon statistic against Northwestern?

Look, I'm not saying the bend-but-don't-break, prevent style of defense should never be used. I'm saying the BBDB style of defense should be used when the offense has an advantage against Iowa's defense and surely never for the entire game.

To wrap this all up, the reason why Wisky's program is perennially better than Iowa's program the past two decades or so even though most other facets of the two programs are equal is because of the defenses. Wisky has a dominant defense and Iowa has not. Wisky's goal on defense is to get off the field and Iowa's goal on defense is to bend but not break and take great amounts of time off the game clock.

 

[uihawk82]

Sometimes perception is not reality. A couple of years ago I remember some commenting on this board about a guy named McCarron ... basically a "slow walk-on receiver" from Dubuque. Well, he ends up running a 4.36 40 at the NFL combine. He's now collecting a check every week from the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots.

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/new...een-practice-former-texans-wr-mccarron-signed

My son did not believe me when I said after 2014 that MVandeberg would be a good receiver as he had some good catches the last part of 2014 and in the taxslayer bowl. I also told my son McCarron could be a good slot receiver but I never knew about his track past and speed plus he just worked his butt off.

I hope McCarron is the next big Patiots slot receiver.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Meh...Northwestern loves to get their offensive players into space. Iowa's D allows players to get into space. Wisconsin, on the other hand, attacks the other's offense...attacks Northwestern's offense.

For example, I looked up the scores of the two games in the 2016 season between Northwestern, Iowa and Wisconsin: Wisconsin 21 Northwestern 7. Northwestern 38 Iowa 31. Of the two, which D had a better scored upon statistic against Northwestern in 2016? Of the two, which D always has a better scored upon statistic against Northwestern?

Look, I'm not saying the bend-but-don't-break, prevent style of defense should never be used. I'm saying the BBDB style of defense should be used when the offense has an advantage against Iowa's defense and surely never for the entire game.

To wrap this all up, the reason why Wisky's program is perennially better than Iowa's program the past two decades or so even though most other facets of the two programs are equal is because of the defenses. Wisky has a dominant defense and Iowa has not. Wisky's goal on defense is to get off the field and Iowa's goal on defense is to bend but not break and take great amounts of time off the game clock.

I'm simply stating a little better offense, more sustained drives, more points, less 3--6 and outs is much more critical (longer fields for opponent, more rest for defense). I believe our scoring defense over the last 20 years is in the top 30 nationally, while the total offense is 70+. Now, think about how many games gave been lost by 7 or less points in that time. Bring the offense up just a little...say top 50...maybe another 1, 2, or more wins per year.

While I'd be fine with a little more pressure at times, and bbdb defense can be frustrating at times...defense is not a weakness. It's just not.

 

[deanvogs]

Actually that isn't true at all. Elite teams lose, elite teams play close games. Lets look at Clemson last year, and obvious elite team that won a National Championship.

2016 Clemson

Clemson beat Troy by 6 points last year.
Clemson lost to Pitt who was 8-5 last year, and wasn't even a top 25 team

2016 Clemson played 3 top 25 teams during the year and Championship game, 2015 Iowa played 3 top 25 teams during the year (and Championship game)

Clemson beats #21 Louisville 42-36
Clemson beats #8 Florida St. 37-34
Clemson beats #15 Va Tech in the ACC Championship game 42-35

2015 Iowa

Iowa beats #23 Northwestern 40-10
Iowa beats #21 Wisconsin 10-6
Iowa loses to #6 MSU 13-16

This myth that teams are playing top 25 teams every week is just that a myth. Most teams will play 2-4 top 25 teams a year. Clemson didn't go through some meat grinder to make the Playoffs last year. Iowa didn't lose to an 8-5 team. Iowa only lost to a top 6 team in a very, very close game that could have gone either way. It happens, even elite teams lose close games. Heck an Elite Clemson team lost to an average 8-5 Pitt team.

Was Iowa "Elite" in 2015? IDK, but they were very, very good at the minimum.

So this post was certainly relevant. The next time someone says we only went 12-0 “becasue of the easy schedule”, then I give you Clemson exhibit 2016 (Loss to Pitt) and exhibit 2017 (Loss to Syracuse).

It is damn near impossible to go undefeated during the regular season no matter how elite a team is or how easy their schedule is. It is 110% impossible to win 12 regular season games if you aren’t at the very least a very, very good team, even with a manageable schedule. Clemson has 3 very impressive wins this season, and then they spit the bit vs a team they are way, way better than.

 

[trj]

You are really bad at math. KF has 6 top 20 finishes, and he has coached 18 full years at Iowa. That means he has a "smoke and mirror" season at Iowa every 3 years. 6-7 years, where the *uck did you learn to do math?

Jim Harbaugh is getting 9 million a year and he has won 24 games since hitting the Michigan campus. Ferentz has 24 wins as well in that exact same time period and is 1-0 vs Harbaugh head to head.

Over the last 10 years Ferentz has averaged 8 wins a year. Over the last 16 years Ferentz has averaged 8.2 wins per year. On that track record alone, and that fact Ferentz has matched Harbaugh's record, he is actually UNDER paid. Yep, I went there.

He learned math the same place I did......Public school. And damn it I am proud of it.