Howe: Hawkeyes Should Be Allowed to Peacefully Protest During Anthem

[Robowe]

The Libertarian in me says let the players do whatever the hell they want. I also understand Kirk's previous position and in many regards I agree we need to keep politics the hell out of sports because it could (probably will) become divisive. So I'm torn on this one.

On a related but separate note I don't get the symbolism of "kneeling". To me kneeling is a subservient gesture. Like kneeling to the king or some great being. Not to mention a knee to the neck is what this dumb ass cop did. I think a better way is the arms in arms approach. It also reminds me of the swarm. To be less divisive as a team member I would suggest they do it before or after the anthem. In my opinion timing is everything and it would actually be more effective ... but that's their choice.

Here is some of the story on how sitting evolved to kneeling for Kaepernick.


"He actually showed us the text messages that his buddies were sending, how they said they were pissed about what he did, but they still understood why he was doing it," Reid said. "Which led to the decision for him to not sit but to take a knee, to show respect to the people that felt hurt by that action."

Boyer agreed taking a knee was more respectful and suggested Kaepernick join his teammates during the anthem rather than isolating himself as he'd done in previous games.

"I told him, 'It’s a good step, and it shows progress on your part and sensitivity and that you care about other people and how this affects them, their reaction,'" Boyer said. "It’s still definitely a symbol. People take a knee to pray. In the military, we take a knee all the time. It’s one of the things we do. When we’re exhausted on patrol, they say take a knee and face out. So we take a knee like that. We’ll take a knee as the classic symbol of respect in front of a brother’s grave site, a soldier on a knee."

 

[RobHowe]

 

[CP87]

Problem is Rob, the people who don't understand that (or won't accept it) are going to be very vocal.

Our team had a similar situation in 2017, and we decided as a team to allow guys to kneel if they chose and back them 100%. The pushback from the community and BVU alumni was great enough that the president (who fully supported the message) prohibited it after a single attempt. The school lost something like $100,000 in donations overnight.

Iowa is a larger, more diverse, and probably more inclusive university than BVU (not that it's bad, but it's full of rural Iowans, smack in the middle of rural Iowa), but I still see the public pushback being large enough to the point that the university or the coaching staff would want to avoid it entirely.

I'm not saying don't kneel, but I can see it as extremely plausible that the team or even the university chooses not to.

Good point, but I do think things have changed in the last 3 years with regard to public tenor.

 

[okeefe4prez]

The Libertarian in me says let the players do whatever the hell they want. I also understand Kirk's previous position and in many regards I agree we need to keep politics the hell out of sports because it could (probably will) become divisive. So I'm torn on this one.

You shouldn't be torn. The University of Iowa is a state actor and as such is bound by the First Amendment. If players want to make a political statement, they absolutely should not be muzzled by the University of Iowa or any of its agents. Mary Beth Tinker, from Des Moines, Iowa, took a case all the way to US Supreme Court in a matter where she was suspended from school for wearing a black armband in protest of the Vietnam War. Well, she won, and the case established one of the most important First Amendment free speech precedents in existence today, which is called the "Tinker Test." I'm not in favor of kneeling during the national anthem, but the stifling of non-disruptive political speech at the hands of the government must NEVER be tolerated. I don't agree with it, but I will absolutely defend the right to say or do it.

 

[RobHowe]

 

[SpiderRico]

KF just freaking said he wants to have that convo. So which is it? Is he a liar or a racist?

This ain't gonna end well.

 

[Hawk1960]

You shouldn't be torn. The University of Iowa is a state actor and as such is bound by the First Amendment. If players want to make a political statement, they absolutely should not be muzzled by the University of Iowa or any of its agents. Mary Beth Tinker, from Des Moines, Iowa, took a case all the way to US Supreme Court in a matter where she was suspended from school for wearing a black armband in protest of the Vietnam War. Well, she won, and the case established one of the most important First Amendment free speech precedents in existence today, which is called the "Tinker Test." I'm not in favor of kneeling during the national anthem, but the stifling of non-disruptive political speech at the hands of the government must NEVER be tolerated. I don't agree with it, but I will absolutely defend the right to say or do it.

I think you misinterpreted the my "torn". I'm not torn at all regarding their 1st Amendment rights to free speech. Not at all. I'm torn more about how they should execute it and when (during, before or after the anthem). The how and when could reduce any divisiveness and the injection of politics in to the sporting event. I actually think it would be more effective for them and get even more support if it was before or after, but like I said, it's their call.

 

[BryceC]

The Libertarian in me says let the players do whatever the hell they want. I also understand Kirk's previous position and in many regards I agree we need to keep politics the hell out of sports because it could (probably will) become divisive. So I'm torn on this one.

On a related but separate note I don't get the symbolism of "kneeling". To me kneeling is a subservient gesture. Like kneeling to the king or some great being. Not to mention a knee to the neck is what this dumb ass cop did. I think a better way is the arms in arms approach. It also reminds me of the swarm. To be less divisive as a team member I would suggest they do it before or after the anthem. In my opinion timing is everything and it would actually be more effective ... but that's their choice.

Read up on why he was kneeling. The advocate for vets who suggest Kap do it told him to do it because that's how they honor fallen comrades.

 

[Ree4]

I will side w/ the captain on not kneeling during the anthem. There are other ways to bring to light white privilege and social injustice that is rampant in this country. During the anthem imo is absolutely not that place. If you don’t think it’s disrespectful to kneel during the national anthem then I challenge you to ask a solider who’s lost a friend fighting for the very freedom that our flag stands for what he thinks about someone kneeling for during the anthem.

Kneeling is a form of protest, protest is supposed to make people uncomfortable. Good article from U of Texas 3 years ago -

https://news.utexas.edu/2017/10/11/effective-protests-make-people-uncomfortable-heres-why/

"Generally speaking, it is a bad idea to trample on someone’s protected values. Moral outrage does not generally put people in a frame of mind to engage in a conversation that might ultimately influence their opinions.

Indeed, most protesters do not start with protected values. They start by engaging with the media, using the political system and the courts to seek outcomes consistent with their views, and working in communities to create change. Only when those avenues have been exhausted do people look to do something more visible and potentially inflammatory.

When someone transgresses one of your protected values in a nonviolent act of protest, you should recognize that you will respond with moral outrage. Your first reaction is going to be to denounce the protesters and to dismiss their cause because of their methods.

As a nation, Americans need to resist this temptation. When someone is angry enough, frustrated enough and driven enough to aim at a protected value as a means of protest, you should start by paying attention. After all, by deliberately transgressing one of your protected values, the protesters have used the biggest stick available to a nonviolent protester. Of course you disagree with their methods — the protest was designed so that you would disagree."

There are so many people that are still just focusing on the methods of the protesters, black on black crime and countless other deflections. YOU. STILL. ARE. NOT. LISTENING.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

KF just freaking said he wants to have that convo. So which is it? Is he a liar or a racist?

This ain't gonna end well.

Well depends who Mike is referring to. Is he refereeing to KF? The staff, The players or all of the above? I don't like the connotation and tone of how he said that either. But the thing about the typed word is the only tone and context to any of it is what the reader puts to it.

 

[RobHowe]

 

[RobHowe]

 

[Jonrn]

Well depends who Mike is referring to. Is he refereeing to KF? The staff, The players or all of the above? I don't like the connotation and tone of how he said that either. But the thing about the typed word is the only tone and context to any of it is what the reader puts to it.

It seems like Macdonald, and The daniels’s are pointing fingers at the Iowa program and claiming the football program is racist and then not explaining anything. I obviously don’t know what he is referring to, but they are all ex-players and need to be forthcoming about what needs to change.

 

[Jonrn]

KF just freaking said he wants to have that convo. So which is it? Is he a liar or a racist?

This ain't gonna end well.

It’s easy to accuse the general population of Iowa of being racist (many are) and accuse the Iowa city PD of being racist (some are) however it’s a lot harder to accuse the most respected person in the history of the state Iowa (maybe 2nd to gable) without providing some explanation. We are listening and ready to push for change with our ticket money or merchandise money. However I haven’t heard any details.

 

[RobHowe]

 

[RobHowe]

It seems like Macdonald, and The daniels’s are pointing fingers at the Iowa program and claiming the football program is racist and then not explaining anything. I obviously don’t know what he is referring to, but they are all ex-players and need to be forthcoming about what needs to change.

Why did they not feel comfortable coming forward while they were here?

 

[CP87]

It seems like Macdonald, and The daniels’s are pointing fingers at the Iowa program and claiming the football program is racist and then not explaining anything. I obviously don’t know what he is referring to, but they are all ex-players and need to be forthcoming about what needs to change.

The Daniels brothers in particular have always been very supportive of the program. I think they love many things about the programs, including coaches, staff, teammates. But, they can simultaneously see areas where the programs could grow in supporting some of its members. Rafael Eubanks stated it most eloquently; it is because he loves the program that he wants to see it evolve in a positive way right now. Some of the other former players seem a bit more raw right now. In the medium of twitter, hard to know if that is because they had different experiences while they were here, if they are feeling more raw anger in this moment, or if they are simply not expressing themselves as clearly. But again, this is a situation where we should listen without judging. If we are left wondering at their exact sentiments, we should ask for clarity, and be willing to accept if the clarity doesn't make us feel comfortable.

 

[Jonrn]

I will side w/ the captain on not kneeling during the anthem. There are other ways to bring to light white privilege and social injustice that is rampant in this country. During the anthem imo is absolutely not that place. If you don’t think it’s disrespectful to kneel during the national anthem then I challenge you to ask a solider who’s lost a friend fighting for the very freedom that our flag stands for what he thinks about someone kneeling for during the anthem.

Like the kneeling or not, it’s coming. This is the movement that is coming through our young people. It’s going to happen. Iowa fans need to accept kneeling, because Iowa football needs to be perceived as a safe place for young black men to learn and play. Good luck to Derek foster, kelvin bell or really any of the white coaches as well, recruiting in urban areas or in SEC country with the label as “Iowa the racist school who forbids kneeling”

 

[Jonrn]

Why did they not feel comfortable coming forward while they were here?

Well, I think that’s obvious, a scared 18 year old kid in a white community a thousand miles from home? However, here we are in 2020. Thousands of Iowa fans are opening their eyes and ready to learn and make choices with their money, feet and voices. I know if I heard a current staff member treated black players unfairly I wouldn’t buy tickets this year for myself or for my 2 sons who happen to be black.

 

[CP87]

Think of how many 65 year-olds in this country have outdated views and are completely resisting to changing them. Do we really expect KF to be on exactly the same page as his players on this one?

He was clearly on a very different page, but he seems open to listen. It is impossible to know what is in a man's heart, and if he is listening as a self-serving means toward keeping his team and his job, or if he is truly open to listen and grow. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, so I think/hope that latter is true. And if that really is true, KF represents an extreme anomaly for 65-year olds across this country.