How much longer does Fran get?

deanvogs said:
Dude, we have been through this before. You keep thinking that what PC said is what I said.

After 1 PTL game you said CW was gonna suck and so was Jordan. I said, "lets wait and see how this plays out". I kept saying to you I'm not going to judge a player after 1 PTL game. Heck by your own admission you were wrong about Jordan. I don't honestly ever remember saying CW or Jordan were going to be good, I was simply telling you to wait, which I was right about for sure it seems with Jordan.

As far as the bet goes lightning, don't be a POS liar. You said Iowa would finish BELOW 10th place. When I called you out on it, we went back and forth for a long time, because you would only BET they would finish 8th or worse. You wanted the 9th place and 8th place finish included for you, when you CLEARLY SAID Iowa was below 10th place. If you want me to quote it, I can.
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Crap. Ok, you're right. It was PC. My apologies. Dammit!
You're still not being honest about the BIG finish bet. I said "We'll be lucky to finish higher than 9th or 10th place." That was my first, exact quote. You somehow thought that equates to "we will end up in 12th place" that's your problem. Not mine. I offered you too vs bottom place finish in BIG conf. You wouldn't take the bet. You predicted a top half finish in conf bit wouldn't bet on it. YOU WERE STILL WRONG. Unless we can manage to win out but that seems unlikely given Fran's penchant for late season nose dives.
 
deanvogs said:
It is true, I root for Iowa players, you got me man.
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That's what I'm talking about though. You refuse to see the flaws in our own players, which is fine but you use the flaws in other players to prop up your arguments. It's laughable. You can't expect anyone to consider you honest or in touch with reality when you do this.
 
lightning1 said:
That's what I'm talking about though. You refuse to see the flaws in our own players, which is fine but you use the flaws in other players to prop up your arguments. It's laughable. You can't expect anyone to consider you honest or in touch with reality when you do this.
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I can't consider anything you say honest or in touch when you said Juwan McCloud was the best PG in PTL. Hahahaha
 
lightning1 said:
Crap. Ok, you're right. It was PC. My apologies. Dammit!
You're still not being honest about the BIG finish bet. I said "We'll be lucky to finish higher than 9th or 10th place." That was my first, exact quote. You somehow thought that equates to "we will end up in 12th place" that's your problem. Not mine. I offered you too vs bottom place finish in BIG conf. You wouldn't take the bet. You predicted a top half finish in conf bit wouldn't bet on it. YOU WERE STILL WRONG. Unless we can manage to win out but that seems unlikely given Fran's penchant for late season nose dives.
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Apology accepted.....but this is the 3rd time now you've tried to pin what PC said on me, let's not do a 4th time. ;)

As far as the bet goes, you are right, you said 9th or 10th place. Yet you wouldn't bet that though. I offered to give you 8th place as well and you REFUSED. You wanted 8th and 7th place as well. So now the only thing you were willing to bet on was Iowa wasn't a top 1/2 B1G team and I was like well no shit they aren't, I'm not betting.
 
lightning1 said:
That's what I'm talking about though. You refuse to see the flaws in our own players, which is fine but you use the flaws in other players to prop up your arguments. It's laughable. You can't expect anyone to consider you honest or in touch with reality when you do this.
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He won't respond to this
 
I've tried to stay off the grid this week. I know I'm still not rational after that dog shit loss to Illinois. This team has shown some promise throughout the year. Now I'm finding myself wondering if Fran will ever be more than a first or second round tournament team during the "good years" .
I really hate to admit this, but I was one that thought Fran was doing it the right way, and Fred was building a house of cards. I was wrong. In order to build a program you have to win, and you have to win now. Bringing in a bunch of transfers was smart. It helped with recruiting.
I'm not saying Iowa is hopeless in the Fran era, but the shine has faded quite a bit. In my irrational state, hope is fading fast.
 
DJL said:
I've tried to stay off the grid this week. I know I'm still not rational after that dog shit loss to Illinois. This team has shown some promise throughout the year. Now I'm finding myself wondering if Fran will ever be more than a first or second round tournament team during the "good years" .
I really hate to admit this, but I was one that thought Fran was doing it the right way, and Fred was building a house of cards. I was wrong. In order to build a program you have to win, and you have to win now. Bringing in a bunch of transfers was smart. It helped with recruiting.
I'm not saying Iowa is hopeless in the Fran era, but the shine has faded quite a bit. In my irrational state, hope is fading fast.
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I can see this line of thought. However, I am willing to see what the next 2-3 years bring with all of the young players in the rotation. They only lose 2 players (Jok and Uhl) actually getting minutes in the next 2 seasons. Hopefully, the current crop of players continue to show signs of growth and improvement. If they don't, it will be time to move on IMO. There will also probably be some movement (transfers, injuries, etc.)

As I mentioned in another thread, didn't Northwestern (a team of some veteran players) just lose at home to this same Illinois team after it looked like NW was possibly a NCAA tourney team? Then, they turned around and won at Wisconsin. Of course, they turned around (again) and lost at home to Maryland. This is the same team that blew the doors off of Iowa a month or so ago. The Big Ten is a bunch of evenly matched teams in a overall down year for the conference.

Replacing 4 starters and starting 3-4 freshman and playing 6 1st year players was a daunting task from the start. We have seen the inconsistency in the non-conference (losing to Omaha, beating ISU) as well as the conference season (beating Purdue, losing to Illinois twice). Nothing has really changed in my mind from the start of the season with a team this young (7th youngest in Division 1 at this point).
 
lightning1 said:
That's what I'm talking about though. You refuse to see the flaws in our own players, which is fine but you use the flaws in other players to prop up your arguments. It's laughable. You can't expect anyone to consider you honest or in touch with reality when you do this.
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You don't read my posts then. I have said countless times Jordan is not good defensively. I have ripped Jok for his defense and ripped on Cook for his hands (or lack thereof) and rebounding.

You also must have missed my yearly meltdown when I rip on Fran and question If Fran should even be here. Heck ask you buddy PC he and I have gone at it on that topic.

I am just not an overly negative type do fan, that is just the way I'm wired. When you rip on CW or Jordan after a PTL game, I caution patience, let's see what they can do instead of ripping them even though I'm concerned. When Iowa gets a commitment from Garza, a kid lots of programs wanted, I am happy. That is just how I'm wired Lightning, it isn't personal against you or anything like that.
 
deanvogs said:
You don't read my posts then. I have said countless times Jordan is not good defensively. I have ripped Jok for his defense and ripped on Cook for his hands (or lack thereof) and rebounding.

You also must have missed my yearly meltdown when I rip on Fran and question If Fran should even be here. Heck ask you buddy PC he and I have gone at it on that topic.

I am just not an overly negative type do fan, that is just the way I'm wired. When you rip on CW or Jordan after a PTL game, I caution patience, let's see what they can do instead of ripping them even though I'm concerned. When Iowa gets a commitment from Garza, a kid lots of programs wanted, I am happy. That is just how I'm wired Lightning, it isn't personal against you or anything like that.
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That's fine but don't say that Moore isn't better than Bohannon because Moore doesn't play defense. That's garbage. Moore is a better PG than Bohannon. It's not debatable.
 
lightning1 said:
That's fine but don't say that Moore isn't better than Bohannon because Moore doesn't play defense. That's garbage. Moore is a better PG than Bohannon. It's not debatable.
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Pretty sure I can debate whatever I want to. I do know Moores PER in conference play is about identical to Jordan's. According to some on here all we have to do is look at PER to evaluate a player, so I am strictly going on that. Seems that Charlie wouldn't be an upgrade over Iowa in conference play.
 
deanvogs said:
Apology accepted.....but this is the 3rd time now you've tried to pin what PC said on me, let's not do a 4th time. ;)

As far as the bet goes, you are right, you said 9th or 10th place. Yet you wouldn't bet that though. I offered to give you 8th place as well and you REFUSED. You wanted 8th and 7th place as well. So now the only thing you were willing to bet on was Iowa wasn't a top 1/2 B1G team and I was like well no shit they aren't, I'm not betting.
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No. I said "we'll be lucky to do better than 9th or 10th place" guess what? I was right. Bet or no bet. Your prediction was wrong and mine was right.
 
deanvogs said:
Pretty sure I can debate whatever I want to. I do know Moores PER in conference play is about identical to Jordan's. According to some on here all we have to do is look at PER to evaluate a player, so I am strictly going on that. Seems that Charlie wouldn't be an upgrade over Iowa in conference play.
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Yes. You can debate what you want. The people that know what they are talking about will just laugh at you. So, be my guest.
 
lightning1 said:
No. I said "we'll be lucky to do better than 9th or 10th place" guess what? I was right. Bet or no bet. Your prediction was wrong and mine was right.
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Well I could have said that Iowa would have to be "unlucky" to finish 9th or worse. That is easy to do, that is just hedging your bets.
 
lightning1 said:
Yes. You can debate what you want. The people that know what they are talking about will just laugh at you. So, be my guest.
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You claimed Jordan would be horrible and McCloud was the best PG in the PTL, excuse me if we don't hold you out as all knowing at this point.
 
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