How long do you give a coach??

BigD said:
Sounds like a spirit of indifference to me. The “whatever” crowd. Yes they may be fans but not die in the wool fans. If you have no expectations from the team you support then why care? If you really don’t care then that comes back to what I was saying in the first place. If there were no expectations then why did people want to get rid of Lickliter? The reason was because he wasn’t living up to the expectations of the powers that be and the expectations of the fans. Yes, to an extent some fans might enjoy going to the game and just enjoy the atmosphere of being at a sporting event. They might even tilt toward one team over another or have a mild tilt toward one team in general. However they also take on a mindset of “Oh well my team lost but maybe they will do better next time.” That is such a luke warm attitude to have. It’s very unlikely they even have a cap or tea shirt of their teams logo with in there personal property items. They have zero expectations and yet they are fans barely.

What your trying to say that this type of person is as big of fan who has Hawkeye Logos on his vehicles, in his yard, on twenty percent of his personal clothing, whom knows who we play next week, and the week after that, and the week after that. Who goes to the games or never misses a game on TV. Who is throwing things at their TV when the mess up or lose the game. If you think these types of fans don’t have expectations then you are not living in reality. If you think these types of fans are on the same level as the “whatever” crowd then you are not living in reality.

Now if your talking about ISU football fans then you got me on that one. However we are not Iowa State fans as IOWA HAWKEYE fans have expectations................ well some of us do. :rolleyes:
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I barely have enough willpower to not throw things at my tv. Other than that, I'm pretty much the exact fan you described. Yet I don't scream "fire everyone" every time we lose.

I know we've talked about this before, but some fans will never be happy because they always want the "next level". 5 years ago, the next level was making the NCAA tournament. Now that we do that, it's sweet 16s. If that happens a couple times, everyone will say "why can't we be Michigan State? We need to find a coach that gets us to that level". If by some miracle that happens, then why can't we be like Kentucky. The unrealistic expectations I'm talking about are the ones that will never be met because the bar always moves up one rung higher than we can reach.
 
PCHawk said:
I barely have enough willpower to not throw things at my tv. Other than that, I'm pretty much the exact fan you described. Yet I don't scream "fire everyone" every time we lose.

I know we've talked about this before, but some fans will never be happy because they always want the "next level". 5 years ago, the next level was making the NCAA tournament. Now that we do that, it's sweet 16s. If that happens a couple times, everyone will say "why can't we be Michigan State? We need to find a coach that gets us to that level". If by some miracle that happens, then why can't we be like Kentucky. The unrealistic expectations I'm talking about are the ones that will never be met because the bar always moves up one rung higher than we can reach.
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IMO you have a valid point about constantly moving the bar higher which at some point becomes unrealistic. To me there exists a middle ground between always wanting more and feeling complacently content with where we sit. The question in my mind becomes has Fran achieved or shown the potential to achieve where we would like to go. I would like to see us get to a point where we can regularly contend for the Big Ten championship and win more than a game in the NCAA tournament. Some seasons will exceed that and some will fall short of course. Fran has yet to win a game past the first round in the NCAA (round of 64) in his career and has a dismal record in the BTT. A good many fans became content when we turned things around and picked up in recruiting and put the Lickliter years behind us. While still early this season has all the makings of not making the NCAA tournament for a second year in a row with the highest level of talent we have had in a good long time.

Nine years in does this seem like a point we should sit at or can we do better?
 
hawkeyemark said:
IMO you have a valid point about constantly moving the bar higher which at some point becomes unrealistic. To me there exists a middle ground between always wanting more and feeling complacently content with where we sit. The question in my mind becomes has Fran achieved or shown the potential to achieve where we would like to go. I would like to see us get to a point where we can regularly contend for the Big Ten championship and win more than a game in the NCAA tournament. Some seasons will exceed that and some will fall short of course. Fran has yet to win a game past the first round in the NCAA (round of 64) in his career and has a dismal record in the BTT. A good many fans became content when we turned things around and picked up in recruiting and put the Lickliter years behind us. While still early this season has all the makings of not making the NCAA tournament for a second year in a row with the highest level of talent we have had in a good long time.

Nine years in does this seem like a point we should sit at or can we do better?
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If Fran turns this season around and makes the tournament, the next few years will only be better. So If he does do that, the odds of us doing better are not very good.

If this season tanks, then you have to wonder how good the next few seasons will be. Still better, but there is a big difference between being better than an NCAA team and being better than an NIT team. If that happens, I would say the odds are 50/50 that we could do better.

Then you have to consider how much better we could be is realistic and how much worse we could be is possible. Fran has us around a top 30 or so program now. Is it realistic to assume with a new coach we will be better than top 20 or so? How possible is it we can drop to top 150 or so? Is it worth the risk to move up a little for the chance to drop a lot? If we barely miss the tourney this year, I would not be ready for that risk yet. If we missed it next year, I would be ready.
 
Bigtenchamp said:
I still have hope in Fran.. he has shown some ability to recruit.. now if he can find a way to implement some defense.
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I think Garza and Nunge will both end up being good defenders. What I don't get is how Moss and Cook can be so bad. Bohannon is what he is and we just have to live with hoping his offense outweighs his defense. But having guys who have all the tools to be good at defense play that bad is what bothers me most. Is it really Fran? Our defense a couple years ago was pretty darn good.
 
PCHawk said:
I barely have enough willpower to not throw things at my tv. Other than that, I'm pretty much the exact fan you described. Yet I don't scream "fire everyone" every time we lose.

I know we've talked about this before, but some fans will never be happy because they always want the "next level". 5 years ago, the next level was making the NCAA tournament. Now that we do that, it's sweet 16s. If that happens a couple times, everyone will say "why can't we be Michigan State? We need to find a coach that gets us to that level". If by some miracle that happens, then why can't we be like Kentucky. The unrealistic expectations I'm talking about are the ones that will never be met because the bar always moves up one rung higher than we can reach.
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hawkeyemark said:
IMO you have a valid point about constantly moving the bar higher which at some point becomes unrealistic. To me there exists a middle ground between always wanting more and feeling complacently content with where we sit. The question in my mind becomes has Fran achieved or shown the potential to achieve where we would like to go. I would like to see us get to a point where we can regularly contend for the Big Ten championship and win more than a game in the NCAA tournament. Some seasons will exceed that and some will fall short of course. Fran has yet to win a game past the first round in the NCAA (round of 64) in his career and has a dismal record in the BTT. A good many fans became content when we turned things around and picked up in recruiting and put the Lickliter years behind us. While still early this season has all the makings of not making the NCAA tournament for a second year in a row with the highest level of talent we have had in a good long time.

Nine years in does this seem like a point we should sit at or can we do better?
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The goal should always be to move the bar higher. That doesn’t mean that you should want to fire a coach if those goals aren’t met. It seems like everyone is on the same page here as far as realistic goals are concerned. We all want a little better than where we currently are. Frans recruiting has shown an uptick and we are all waiting to see where’s it takes us. I can’t imagine anyone saying we are good where we are now, at least not in the true sense of competition. With recruiting on what appears to be an upward trend most are anxiously watching to see where we go. I see PC’s point let’s let the sophomores get to there senior year which will put our freshmen at their Junior year and our highly recruited guard will be in his sophomore year. This should be in theory Fran’s most talented team and there can be no more excuses given for quick outs in the BTT or the NCAA tournament other than Fran is a mid major coach and always will be. Actually I had high hope for this current season and very high hopes for next year also. As pointed out Fran’s epic year should be two years from now. I am hoping it turns around this season as waiting for two more years shouldn’t have to happen for a coach who is in his ninth year. Now if the wheels come totally off this season then all bets are off. Ultimately Fran is responsible for the players he has on the court right now.
 
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longtimer said:
Of course this year isnt over and we may find the answers but we may not. Clearly we have some deficiencies in the guard court and overall we are not an athletic team. That being said Northern Iowa had some fine years and won some tournament games with teams that also lacked athletic players. So Fran is in his 8th year and has won 1 tournament game. If we dont find answers and have a 9th place kind of year in the Big Ten does that put McCaffrey on the hot seat in his 9th year?
Not saying that i have given up on this team but I sure didnt see this coming!
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Got a top 25 player in next year and the year after, two great looking freshmen this year, I say as long as it takes!
 
Hawk5656 said:
I'd take him in a second. I'm not sure if he would have any interest though.
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Seriously? He still goes to counseling for nightmares relating to the Syracuse zone. I'm afraid old Tom couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. But he looks good checking his tie and pacing like he's nervous.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Seriously? He still goes to counseling for nightmares relating to the Syracuse zone. I'm afraid old Tom couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. But he looks good checking his tie and pacing like he's nervous.
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Crean has won two Big Ten titles, was the Big Ten coach of the year in 2016, been to three Sweet 16's and has a Final Four in his resume so yes I think it would be an upgrade over our current situation.
 
hawkeyemark said:
IMO you have a valid point about constantly moving the bar higher which at some point becomes unrealistic. To me there exists a middle ground between always wanting more and feeling complacently content with where we sit. The question in my mind becomes has Fran achieved or shown the potential to achieve where we would like to go. I would like to see us get to a point where we can regularly contend for the Big Ten championship and win more than a game in the NCAA tournament. Some seasons will exceed that and some will fall short of course. Fran has yet to win a game past the first round in the NCAA (round of 64) in his career and has a dismal record in the BTT. A good many fans became content when we turned things around and picked up in recruiting and put the Lickliter years behind us. While still early this season has all the makings of not making the NCAA tournament for a second year in a row with the highest level of talent we have had in a good long time.

Nine years in does this seem like a point we should sit at or can we do better?
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Lemme guess. Making it past the first round of the NCAAs is an unrealistic expectation.
Just like being ranked in football is an unreasonable expectation.

Congrats to the fans for holding the Hawkeyes back. Will the Cyclones eclipse Iowa this season? Probably. But hey as long as we expect failure it's okay.
 
Joshbrown said:
Lemme guess. Making it past the first round of the NCAAs is an unrealistic expectation.
Just like being ranked in football is an unreasonable expectation.

Congrats to the fans for holding the Hawkeyes back. Will the Cyclones eclipse Iowa this season? Probably. But hey as long as we expect failure it's okay.
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Sit tight. Less than a decade until Connor is an assistant for the Iowa basketball program. Iowa does things the right way. Very family oriented.
 
It's so easy for fans to say "I want more so we should fire who we have". An AD has to put a tad bit more thought into it than that. He has to weigh odds that Fran will do better in the future, odds that we can bring in someone who does better, and odds that if we do, that person will stay at Iowa. There are also the odds that the next person will be exactly the same or even worse. If it was easy to just fire and average coach and instantly improve the program, everyone would do it.
 
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PCHawk said:
It's so easy for fans to say "I want more so we should fire who we have". An AD has to put a tad bit more thought into it than that. He has to weigh odds that Fran will do better in the future, odds that we can bring in someone who does better, and odds that if we do, that person will stay at Iowa. There are also the odds that the next person will be exactly the same or even worse. If it was easy to just fire and average coach and instantly improve the program, everyone would do it.
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Actually it has become easier for those who lack imagination and historical perspective to lower their goals and expectations like the coaches; the media and the athletic director have instructed them to.
It's called the sheep-who-like-the-taste-of-kool-aid effect.
 
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