Robowe
Well-Known Member
I agree that the connection needs to be made. Both sides need to listen at some point, once the yelling subsides. Thanks for the response. And for your service.
Hawkeyes Past, Present, Future Share Feelings on Racial Injustice
- Thread starter RobHowe
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I agree that the connection needs to be made. Both sides need to listen at some point, once the yelling subsides. Thanks for the response. And for your service.
Yeah the Brees thing is nuts. He's since apologized this morning already predictably so. But he didn't back track from his take on the kneeling during the anthem. You just can't have an opinion if it disagrees with the liberals. You just can't they will destroy you. The twitter mob was going to boycott all his sponsers and try branding him a racist (which he obviously isn't and it makes no sense at all) if he didn't bow down to their side. The worst part is all the NFL players around the league and teammates going off on him. Just pathetic. He was asked a question and answered it honestly. It wasn't about Kaps intent or anyone elses with the kneeling for him. It was just what he thinks about what kneeling to the flag means to him and he thinks it's disrespectful. World is going batshit crazy.
I totally agree. Flawed messengers (and to be real how many 'perfect' ones are there) shouldn't take anything away from the specific message they are advocating for if it's just. Which of course his was that part always was. He just had a couple other layers to it that rubbed folks the wrong way and they just so happened to be NFL decision makers be it coaches, GMs and owners
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Again, I wish the points could be made without the shouting/boycotting, but the points are valid. Sometimes, the point needs to be made need to be done to elicit the response and understanding. And timing is everything.
I do hope both sides start listening instead of shouting.
It's gotten to the point now where if you're a prominent player (person) you either have to toe the line or just stay quiet and no comment to everything. I'm surprised Tom Brady with his ties to Trump hasn't gotten more grief over that then he has. Especially while he was up in NE where it's a pretty liberal area. If he wasn't the GOAT of a player with all the rings he's won I feel like they'd have long ago buried him over it.... Now that he's in Tampa I wonder how he'll deflect tricky questions and how they are perceived.
BILLYBOBSTEXAS
Well-Known Member
Great thread! A lot of thoughts exchanged and discussed. Mostly civilly too!
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
Rob, are you honestly in favor of "defunding the police?" I hope that you can step back and think of the policy implications. Let us say Iowa City were to adopt this mantra. What do you believe would happen?
What I believe would happen is that the chief would look up and down his/her roster and say "golly, the force is pretty much the right size right now, but I suddenly have to confront a 50% funding cut."
He will then call up the University Heights police chief and get some pointers on cutting edge crime fighting tips like "how to prevent scofflaws from driving 26 in a 25." It won't lead to less policing, it will lead to significantly more policing over nonsensical low level regulatory crap designed strictly to generate revenue. But it will be that way all over the place. That is the kind of policing that got Eric Garner into a confrontation with the NYPD over selling loose cigarettes and that got Ariel Roman shot in the back by 2 Chicago cops for the heinous crime of walking between train cars on the Red Line.
RobHowe
Administrator
I did not say that.
I was sharing a post from a starting linebacker who believes that.
I do think saying, "oh, there's a few bad cops" is some serious bullshit. There are more than a few. And if they can't clean up their house themselves, it needs to be done for them.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
Agreed on the "a few bad cops" being bullshit. But I also think that about pretty much any gov't job. There's more than "a few bad teachers" and "a few bad <insert name of gov't job>". But as long as the public sector unions are there to protect the police, and teachers, and everyone else, good luck with that. Not saying it can't be done, but now all of a sudden, you're not running over "right of center" idols, you're running smack dab up against established "left of center" idols. It's all fun and games until someone else's "house" is getting targeted.
And I'm not sure if it was on here or somewhere else, but I remember seeing something about the fact that we don't tolerate a "bad" pilot, so why the hell would we tolerate a bad cop. Great analogy! The difference is that a pilot union isn't anywhere near as strong a a public sector police union.
There will always be racism as long as every issue involving a black person being slighted (fired, not hired, harmed, killed, raped, etc.) by a white person is labeled as being done because the white person was racist. And that we keep talking about racism. It feeds itself. Like this very unfortunate and tragic killing of George Floyd, our society went from 0-120 in 0.9 seconds in declaring that Chauvin did this because he was racist and that this was a racist act. Now was it? Nobody knows for sure. Chauvin may have done this to a white person too. Maybe he did it because he was black. Maybe he did it because they knew each other and there was some bad blood. Who knows. We wont know until either Chauvin makes a statement, an investigation is conducted or we may never know.
At this time though, no matter how we got here, we are here. Nothing will bring George Floyd back nor will we be able to erase the images of him dying in front of us. As tragic as it sounds, this is not only a golden opportunity, but the holy grail of opportunities to actually make some positive impact moving forward. The entire world was aware of the injustice and it was universal across races that something really bad happened here and that all of us were readied to support the cause so that things like this dont happen again.
Awareness of this tragedy was and is not an issue, everyone knows about it.
However, as tragic as the death of a human being is, what is more tragic is that his loss may have been in vain, as sad as that sounds. Because what has happened since has done nothing but to divert attention and focus away from what matters. Whether that be with destroying property, looting, bullying people on social media for saying things like All Lives Matter or someone supporting the flag, or spending your money bailing out looters, it is all a waste of time and not accomplishing anything, and in the end, only further strengthening beliefs of both sides and dividing us further. So for those that are leaders and influencers, it is sadly just lazy to say they support a cause with a token protest.
What needs to happen is action. Instead of just protesting an issue and complaining about the injustices and expecting the white people to fix the issues, take action in reforming the system that needs to be changed. Be specific. You have our attention and while the spotlight is on this issue take advantage of it because real legislation can take place to make some permanent changes. Want an analogy? We are on a football forum right? Targeting on the field is a big issue because of danger of it. Much the same as targeting to the african american community from the police officers is damaging to them as well. Do you think that football in targeting would just disappear if we asked the safeties and corners to not do it anymore? Of course not. But what is making a difference is that the stiff penalties they and their teams incur when they do that. Repeat offenders get fined, and I am sure it was really bad then they get kicked out of football. So suggest legislation that defines rules of engagement between the police and the offender, demand transparency of offenders through an oversight committee, punish the offenders accordingly, propose new training regimens, etc. I dont have all the answers, but collectively everyone getting together to propose solutions would be a start.
My last point, and I am sorry for such a long post, is how sad it is that the african american community cannot see how they are pawns in this power struggle in politics. It was predictable that a racial issue would happen in 2020, and 2016 for that matter, because getting a voter base emotional is the most effective way to first motivate them to vote, and second, to vote for them. Politicians know how easy it is to tug on the strings of racism and evoke a strong emotional reaction from a lot of people. So if anyone on the left or right or black or white thinks that politicians are motivated to wipe out racism, you are extremely naive because all they do is start the fire and fan the flames when they can use that voting base to their advantage. That is as far as I will go with politics, just know this issue is just as much a political issue as a humanitarian one.
So moving forward, I would suggest that when we encounter a protester, we ask them what changes do they say they want to happen. Ask them to be specific. Then encourage the protesters to bring awareness to what they want instead of what happened. All of us then would support and get behind legislation, but until then, none of us really know what to do.
At this time though, no matter how we got here, we are here. Nothing will bring George Floyd back nor will we be able to erase the images of him dying in front of us. As tragic as it sounds, this is not only a golden opportunity, but the holy grail of opportunities to actually make some positive impact moving forward. The entire world was aware of the injustice and it was universal across races that something really bad happened here and that all of us were readied to support the cause so that things like this dont happen again.
Awareness of this tragedy was and is not an issue, everyone knows about it.
However, as tragic as the death of a human being is, what is more tragic is that his loss may have been in vain, as sad as that sounds. Because what has happened since has done nothing but to divert attention and focus away from what matters. Whether that be with destroying property, looting, bullying people on social media for saying things like All Lives Matter or someone supporting the flag, or spending your money bailing out looters, it is all a waste of time and not accomplishing anything, and in the end, only further strengthening beliefs of both sides and dividing us further. So for those that are leaders and influencers, it is sadly just lazy to say they support a cause with a token protest.
What needs to happen is action. Instead of just protesting an issue and complaining about the injustices and expecting the white people to fix the issues, take action in reforming the system that needs to be changed. Be specific. You have our attention and while the spotlight is on this issue take advantage of it because real legislation can take place to make some permanent changes. Want an analogy? We are on a football forum right? Targeting on the field is a big issue because of danger of it. Much the same as targeting to the african american community from the police officers is damaging to them as well. Do you think that football in targeting would just disappear if we asked the safeties and corners to not do it anymore? Of course not. But what is making a difference is that the stiff penalties they and their teams incur when they do that. Repeat offenders get fined, and I am sure it was really bad then they get kicked out of football. So suggest legislation that defines rules of engagement between the police and the offender, demand transparency of offenders through an oversight committee, punish the offenders accordingly, propose new training regimens, etc. I dont have all the answers, but collectively everyone getting together to propose solutions would be a start.
My last point, and I am sorry for such a long post, is how sad it is that the african american community cannot see how they are pawns in this power struggle in politics. It was predictable that a racial issue would happen in 2020, and 2016 for that matter, because getting a voter base emotional is the most effective way to first motivate them to vote, and second, to vote for them. Politicians know how easy it is to tug on the strings of racism and evoke a strong emotional reaction from a lot of people. So if anyone on the left or right or black or white thinks that politicians are motivated to wipe out racism, you are extremely naive because all they do is start the fire and fan the flames when they can use that voting base to their advantage. That is as far as I will go with politics, just know this issue is just as much a political issue as a humanitarian one.
So moving forward, I would suggest that when we encounter a protester, we ask them what changes do they say they want to happen. Ask them to be specific. Then encourage the protesters to bring awareness to what they want instead of what happened. All of us then would support and get behind legislation, but until then, none of us really know what to do.
If that is where I think it is on North Dubuque Street, it looks like the cops were trying to prevent them from getting on and possibly trying to close down the interstate. Who knows, they probably saved some lives, all it would take would be one 18 wheeler to accidentally run in to a group on a pitch dark night.
Best and most accurate post of the thread so far.
Motigerhawk
Well-Known Member
Even in the heightened time with phones everywhere. This cop gropes the woman and then they beat her and arrest her.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
My biggest fear is that this tragedy will live for a very brief time and little of substance will transpire in its wake. I think of the slaughters of school children, the mass murders in churches as well as in other public venues. The call to make teachers become law enforcement, armed guards in schools, stand your ground nonsense. The resultant outrage and a call for legislative action was buried by big $$, politics, the NRA, the 2nd Amendment, while the vast majority of Americans, including gun owners like me, demanded corrective actions. Well, you see where that went. To be clear, I am NOT trying to change the subject or begin some silly debate on guns. I have heard enough nonsense on that topic to last me a lifetime. It only may serve as an example of the realities that have left me very sad for America.
Excellent post. I agree that many politicians (and the media) like to divide us by race ... in my eyes it's actually one of the most stealth forms of racism. They also like to divide us by gender, region and ideology, but that's a discussion for another day. I guess it's probably the way they slice and dice their polling and rating demographics ... to generate votes and clicks.
I feel fortunate I grew up in a very diverse middle class neighborhood and had four really close friends; two white, one black and one 4th generation Mexican American. We all played sports, mowed lawns and shoveled snow together to make a buck and went through 4th through 12th grade together. There was never a hint of racism among the five of us or our parents. Race was an after thought because it simply did not matter ... we all got along and treated each other as equals.
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You are right, the shelf life on issues like this are very short. My children talked to me about the "Black Lives Matter" movement back in 2016 and what I thought about it, and regardless of my views I told them that no matter who wins the election, after the election you will not hear anymore from the movement. It will be go poof, and disappear. Then I told them that if Clinton wins, it may be shelved indefinitely, but if Trump wins it will come up again in 2020. Rinse and repeat. There are a lot of reasons for this, but the biggest one is that it takes a lot of coordination, resources and funding to keep an effort like this going. Dont fool yourself to think it is organic and is just happening on an individual basis. And the people that push it always have an agenda, always. And it is not reform, because if it was, they would take their efforts and money to Washington to lobby for legislation. But that is silent really and doesn't evoke the emotional reaction that is needed for whatever purpose that was intended. So this is how it works: There is a spark, either something happened on its own or something was created that could get a lot of people emotional, then there are entities that realize that getting a lot of people to be reactive and controlled by the cause is extremely powerful so they stoke the fire with resources, then, the media is going to promote it because they have figured out that reporting on either far left or far right issues is much more lucrative than reporting on issues in the middle, which then angers the middle and gets them emotional, until usually an election occurs and the funding stops because the goal was accomplished, the movement stalls and dies out, the media quits reporting on it and moves to a new train wreck.
2016 Black Lives Matter
2016 MeToo - that wont be publicized in this cycle because Biden would be exposed
2018 Charlotte bathroom bill
2020 Black Lives Matter
etc.
So the moral of the story is that social movements certainly define politics, but hardly, if ever, define policy. And the people who truly believe in the movement got played and more often than not elected a politician that will not help their cause, but stash it in their back pocket until the next time they need it. And that is why stuff like this will never go away.
How about surveying black people? Someone smarter than me can make a big list of questions and send them to every black person. Questions about what they see that's wrong in the country and ideas on how to fix it. Questions like "are you afraid of cops" and "what actions do the do that scare you". Then they release the results. If white people see that 95% answered that they are scared of cops, a lit of people will open their eyes. If the police see the things they do that intimidate black people, it would be easier to adjust their methods. Seems like the best way to figure out the best path from here is just mass quiz everyone. There's bound to be some really good ideas.
If this could be solved with voting, Obama would have already solved it.
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