Hawkeyes Past, Present, Future Share Feelings on Racial Injustice

[Fryowa]

Wtf

 

[RobHowe]

 

[RobHowe]

Just a couple of bad apples...

 

[dirtwrap]

How about surveying black people? Someone smarter than me can make a big list of questions and send them to every black person. Questions about what they see that's wrong in the country and ideas on how to fix it. Questions like "are you afraid of cops" and "what actions do the do that scare you". Then they release the results. If white people see that 95% answered that they are scared of cops, a lit of people will open their eyes. If the police see the things they do that intimidate black people, it would be easier to adjust their methods. Seems like the best way to figure out the best path from here is just mass quiz everyone. There's bound to be some really good ideas.

I really like your thought process, that is definitely productive. I think the survey should be expanded beyond just black people though and be much broader, because it would be much more accurate to truly define the problem. For example, I will give you my experience. When I was 16 I got my license and I drove a rather ordinary looking S-10 Chevy truck. I never got pulled over in the 2 years that I had it. Then, I bought more of a sports car with flashy wheels (thought it was cool at the time) and I got pulled over 11 times the first year I had it. I only received 2 tickets out of it as well. Then, I bought a new Chevy pickup, and havent been pulled over since in the 21 years I have had it.

Now, I never asked the police for an honest answer of why they pulled me over, because I knew that the reasons they gave me were bogus, but I know that it was because my car made me look like a trouble maker and they targeted me for that. Was it right? No. Was it real? Absolutely.

That is why I think that most of what we see from police officers is not as racist as one would think. Think about it like this: lets say you are driving down the road late at night, and you encounter someone on the side of the road that needs help. You dont have to answer, but think about in your mind these people that you encounter.

1. Attractive black woman in a business suit or dress driving a new mercedes with a flat tire.
2. Black guy wearing a hoodie, baggy pants driving a metal flaked impala with 26 inch wheels, with a flat tire.
3. Heavy white woman, not attractive, tattoos and needle marks, wearing trashy clothes driving a trashy car with a flat tire.
4. 80 year old black man wearing slacks and a button up shirt driving a newer Buick with a flat tire.
5. Big giant white guy with a long beard, sleeveless shirt, tattoos, driving a big jacked up truck with a flat tire.

So then, after you determine which of those people that you would stop and help, replace the white with black or the black with white. Would it change your mind in any situation? For me, it would not.

Then, change the man to woman or woman to man, would it change your mind? Maybe, maybe not, but I would certainly think that most people would tend to stop to help the female rather than the male, and mostly because the female is far less intimidating.

I think police officers evaluate their targets in a very similar way. Most of them anyway. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but it is not productive to focus on them for systemic change. Much like myself when I had to realize that my car was bringing me attention that I didnt necessarily want, some people need to take accountability for their own presentation and ask themselves if the attention they are getting because of it is something they want or not.

 

[dirtwrap]

If this could be solved with voting, Obama would have already solved it.

I never said it could be solved by politics, only that it defines politics.

 

[Ree4]

I really like your thought process, that is definitely productive. I think the survey should be expanded beyond just black people though and be much broader, because it would be much more accurate to truly define the problem. For example, I will give you my experience. When I was 16 I got my license and I drove a rather ordinary looking S-10 Chevy truck. I never got pulled over in the 2 years that I had it. Then, I bought more of a sports car with flashy wheels (thought it was cool at the time) and I got pulled over 11 times the first year I had it. I only received 2 tickets out of it as well. Then, I bought a new Chevy pickup, and havent been pulled over since in the 21 years I have had it.

Now, I never asked the police for an honest answer of why they pulled me over, because I knew that the reasons they gave me were bogus, but I know that it was because my car made me look like a trouble maker and they targeted me for that. Was it right? No. Was it real? Absolutely.

That is why I think that most of what we see from police officers is not as racist as one would think. Think about it like this: lets say you are driving down the road late at night, and you encounter someone on the side of the road that needs help. You dont have to answer, but think about in your mind these people that you encounter.

1. Attractive black woman in a business suit or dress driving a new mercedes with a flat tire.
2. Black guy wearing a hoodie, baggy pants driving a metal flaked impala with 26 inch wheels, with a flat tire.
3. Heavy white woman, not attractive, tattoos and needle marks, wearing trashy clothes driving a trashy car with a flat tire.
4. 80 year old black man wearing slacks and a button up shirt driving a newer Buick with a flat tire.
5. Big giant white guy with a long beard, sleeveless shirt, tattoos, driving a big jacked up truck with a flat tire.

So then, after you determine which of those people that you would stop and help, replace the white with black or the black with white. Would it change your mind in any situation? For me, it would not.

Then, change the man to woman or woman to man, would it change your mind? Maybe, maybe not, but I would certainly think that most people would tend to stop to help the female rather than the male, and mostly because the female is far less intimidating.

I think police officers evaluate their targets in a very similar way. Most of them anyway. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but it is not productive to focus on them for systemic change. Much like myself when I had to realize that my car was bringing me attention that I didnt necessarily want, some people need to take accountability for their own presentation and ask themselves if the attention they are getting because of it is something they want or not.

LOL I can't even... So much wrong with this. The cops tend to pull people who over are flashy or look like trouble makers. I guess we need to teach black folk to be less flashy or look less like trouble makers. WTAF.
1. Attractive black woman in a business suit or dress driving a new mercedes with a flat tire.


We've all been pulled over for bullshit reasons, that's the whole point. In a reverse of the punch line of "A Time to Kill" - Now imagine you're black.

 

[okeefe4prez]

My biggest fear is that this tragedy will live for a very brief time and little of substance will transpire in its wake.

I wish I shared your optimism. My biggest fear is that this persists all summer because of unemployment and lack of entertainment options as a result of The Germ. I fear that like in the late '60's and early '70's, violence will be widespread, particularly as groups who have a litany of uncurable grievances create a state of mild anarchy and we end up with a bunch of groups that behave like Weather Underground, Symbionese Liberation Army, etc. (which will be able to quickly recruit and ramp up due to social media). My biggest fear is that then our two party political system purports to offer two equally bad choices of either escalating threats of government violence or appeasement to the fringe elements of the mob that leads to an absolute downward spiral of the American cities like we saw in the '70's and '80's. My biggest fear is the opposite of yours, that something of substance that totally sucks is going to transpire in its wake.

 

[okeefe4prez]

LOL I can't even... So much wrong with this. The cops tend to pull people who over are flashy or look like trouble makers. I guess we need to teach black folk to be less flashy or look less like trouble makers. WTAF.
1. Attractive black woman in a business suit or dress driving a new mercedes with a flat tire.


We've all been pulled over for bullshit reasons, that's the whole point. In a reverse of the punch line of "A Time to Kill" - Now imagine you're black.

The PD here has a system that runs every visible tag and immediately runs it through a database. That is how they find warrants and stolen cars. If those guys really run tags randomly and they don't just run tags on every black motorist and the tag didn't show up, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that stop. Did she ever get to the bottom of it? Seems like it would be really easy for the state's attorney to find out if the story was BS or not.

The tag running thing is very common in big cities. I know Chicago does it and they do it for parking as well. For parking they run it around the parking lot at OHare every single day, so keep that in mind if you ever drive a stolen car to OHare. Big data gonna get bigger.

 

[HuckFinn]

I wish I shared your optimism. My biggest fear is that this persists all summer because of unemployment and lack of entertainment options as a result of The Germ. I fear that like in the late '60's and early '70's, violence will be widespread, particularly as groups who have a litany of uncurable grievances create a state of mild anarchy and we end up with a bunch of groups that behave like Weather Underground, Symbionese Liberation Army, etc. (which will be able to quickly recruit and ramp up due to social media). My biggest fear is that then our two party political system purports to offer two equally bad choices of either escalating threats of government violence or appeasement to the fringe elements of the mob that leads to an absolute downward spiral of the American cities like we saw in the '70's and '80's. My biggest fear is the opposite of yours, that something of substance that totally sucks is going to transpire in its wake.

With any luck, we will both be wrong.

 

[dirtwrap]

LOL I can't even... So much wrong with this. The cops tend to pull people who over are flashy or look like trouble makers. I guess we need to teach black folk to be less flashy or look less like trouble makers. WTAF.
1. Attractive black woman in a business suit or dress driving a new mercedes with a flat tire.


We've all been pulled over for bullshit reasons, that's the whole point. In a reverse of the punch line of "A Time to Kill" - Now imagine you're black.

So what are you saying? Are you saying that cops don't target people because they look like trouble makers? That they only target people because they are black? I am not sure what you are saying that is so much wrong with what I said.

What you did say is that we have all been pulled over for bullshit reasons. So isnt that saying that cops just dont pull over black people for bullshit reasons, but black and white people? Isnt that the same thing as to what I am saying?

 

[Ree4]

The PD here has a system that runs every visible tag and immediately runs it through a database. That is how they find warrants and stolen cars. If those guys really run tags randomly and they don't just run tags on every black motorist and the tag didn't show up, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that stop. Did she ever get to the bottom of it? Seems like it would be really easy for the state's attorney to find out if the story was BS or not.

The tag running thing is very common in big cities. I know Chicago does it and they do it for parking as well. For parking they run it around the parking lot at OHare every single day, so keep that in mind if you ever drive a stolen car to OHare. Big data gonna get bigger.

Won't be long before they start doing that with facial recognition, if they arent already. So much for freedom!

 

[Ree4]

So what are you saying? Are you saying that cops don't target people because they look like trouble makers? That they only target people because they are black? I am not sure what you are saying that is so much wrong with what I said.

What you did say is that we have all been pulled over for bullshit reasons. So isnt that saying that cops just dont pull over black people for bullshit reasons, but black and white people? Isnt that the same thing as to what I am saying?

Rather than spending an hour trying to explain it, of which there are plenty of places to look online (including this thread), I'll post how I feel instead:

 

[okeefe4prez]

Won't be long before they start doing that with facial recognition, if they arent already. So much for freedom!

Comrade, if you have done nothing wrong, the facial recognition software poses no risk to you. Now let us check your social standing score...

 

[CP87]

Comment from General Jim Mattis:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...Ed9Ts2o-Kc&no_nav=true&p9w22b2p=b2p22p9w00098

 

[kicker22]

I really like your thought process, that is definitely productive. I think the survey should be expanded beyond just black people though and be much broader, because it would be much more accurate to truly define the problem. For example, I will give you my experience. When I was 16 I got my license and I drove a rather ordinary looking S-10 Chevy truck. I never got pulled over in the 2 years that I had it. Then, I bought more of a sports car with flashy wheels (thought it was cool at the time) and I got pulled over 11 times the first year I had it. I only received 2 tickets out of it as well. Then, I bought a new Chevy pickup, and havent been pulled over since in the 21 years I have had it.

Now, I never asked the police for an honest answer of why they pulled me over, because I knew that the reasons they gave me were bogus, but I know that it was because my car made me look like a trouble maker and they targeted me for that. Was it right? No. Was it real? Absolutely.

That is why I think that most of what we see from police officers is not as racist as one would think. Think about it like this: lets say you are driving down the road late at night, and you encounter someone on the side of the road that needs help. You dont have to answer, but think about in your mind these people that you encounter.

1. Attractive black woman in a business suit or dress driving a new mercedes with a flat tire.
2. Black guy wearing a hoodie, baggy pants driving a metal flaked impala with 26 inch wheels, with a flat tire.
3. Heavy white woman, not attractive, tattoos and needle marks, wearing trashy clothes driving a trashy car with a flat tire.
4. 80 year old black man wearing slacks and a button up shirt driving a newer Buick with a flat tire.
5. Big giant white guy with a long beard, sleeveless shirt, tattoos, driving a big jacked up truck with a flat tire.

So then, after you determine which of those people that you would stop and help, replace the white with black or the black with white. Would it change your mind in any situation? For me, it would not.

Then, change the man to woman or woman to man, would it change your mind? Maybe, maybe not, but I would certainly think that most people would tend to stop to help the female rather than the male, and mostly because the female is far less intimidating.

I think police officers evaluate their targets in a very similar way. Most of them anyway. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but it is not productive to focus on them for systemic change. Much like myself when I had to realize that my car was bringing me attention that I didnt necessarily want, some people need to take accountability for their own presentation and ask themselves if the attention they are getting because of it is something they want or not.

I think the moment you said "I think police evaluate their targets"... you immediately lost the argument. Targets of any kind are something that is directly sought after "targeted". If an individual becomes a "target" in that sense they've already been perceived as doing something wrong and this is the problem.

Edit: I'll add that if they did do something wrong or they did something that immediately caused a red flag that something seemed wrong then they put that target on themselves and its not the officer just randomly "targeting them". However if they're randomly being sought out then IMO there is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Ree4]

Comrade, if you have done nothing wrong, the facial recognition software poses no risk to you. Now let us check your social standing score...

Haha, reminds me of The Good Place - great show. I know that a ton of people hate AOC - but hopefully people can acknowledge how dangerous this shit can be, especially for minorities. Try to ignore the politics and imagine it's your favorite politician doing the questioning. This video is not about politics. It's another issue that will greatly affect minorities in a negative way, being deployed currently and may be greatly expanded in the near future. Guess who gets to pay for it? (Video says politics in big letters lol)

 

[PCHawk]

I really like your thought process, that is definitely productive. I think the survey should be expanded beyond just black people though and be much broader, because it would be much more accurate to truly define the problem. For example, I will give you my experience. When I was 16 I got my license and I drove a rather ordinary looking S-10 Chevy truck. I never got pulled over in the 2 years that I had it. Then, I bought more of a sports car with flashy wheels (thought it was cool at the time) and I got pulled over 11 times the first year I had it. I only received 2 tickets out of it as well. Then, I bought a new Chevy pickup, and havent been pulled over since in the 21 years I have had it.

Now, I never asked the police for an honest answer of why they pulled me over, because I knew that the reasons they gave me were bogus, but I know that it was because my car made me look like a trouble maker and they targeted me for that. Was it right? No. Was it real? Absolutely.

That is why I think that most of what we see from police officers is not as racist as one would think. Think about it like this: lets say you are driving down the road late at night, and you encounter someone on the side of the road that needs help. You dont have to answer, but think about in your mind these people that you encounter.

1. Attractive black woman in a business suit or dress driving a new mercedes with a flat tire.
2. Black guy wearing a hoodie, baggy pants driving a metal flaked impala with 26 inch wheels, with a flat tire.
3. Heavy white woman, not attractive, tattoos and needle marks, wearing trashy clothes driving a trashy car with a flat tire.
4. 80 year old black man wearing slacks and a button up shirt driving a newer Buick with a flat tire.
5. Big giant white guy with a long beard, sleeveless shirt, tattoos, driving a big jacked up truck with a flat tire.

So then, after you determine which of those people that you would stop and help, replace the white with black or the black with white. Would it change your mind in any situation? For me, it would not.

Then, change the man to woman or woman to man, would it change your mind? Maybe, maybe not, but I would certainly think that most people would tend to stop to help the female rather than the male, and mostly because the female is far less intimidating.

I think police officers evaluate their targets in a very similar way. Most of them anyway. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but it is not productive to focus on them for systemic change. Much like myself when I had to realize that my car was bringing me attention that I didnt necessarily want, some people need to take accountability for their own presentation and ask themselves if the attention they are getting because of it is something they want or not.

I think this is a very good post.

 

[PCHawk]

I think the moment you said "I think police evaluate their targets"... you immediately lost the argument. Targets of any kind are something that is directly sought after "targeted". If an individual becomes a "target" in that sense they've already been perceived as doing something wrong and this is the problem.

I'm not sure I follow that? What argument do you think he was trying to make?

 

[PCHawk]

LOL I can't even... So much wrong with this. The cops tend to pull people who over are flashy or look like trouble makers. I guess we need to teach black folk to be less flashy or look less like trouble makers. WTAF.
1. Attractive black woman in a business suit or dress driving a new mercedes with a flat tire.


We've all been pulled over for bullshit reasons, that's the whole point. In a reverse of the punch line of "A Time to Kill" - Now imagine you're black.

Are you saying there is so much wrong with his post or saying there is so much wrong with how the police operate?

 

[PCHawk]

I never said it could be solved by politics, only that it defines politics.

I know. My post wasn't meant to correct you. I was just adding to it.