Hawkeyes Past, Present, Future Share Feelings on Racial Injustice

[RobHowe]

Of course discussion is important. And it needs to continue. But it's not enough. And there's no time to waste on people who are hurt by being called out for whataboutism or who want to ignore the concept of White Privilege or don't understand why black people riot.

Change is going to take time. We've had hundreds of years of built in systemic racism. Try to reach the reachable. Don't waste time pounding heads against the wall trying to reach people with deep-ingrained unconscious bias. We've seen it here with many posters regarding the Gary Dolphin comments.

My son saw me cry for the first time today. I was in tears in my kitchen when he came in this morning. He hugged me and said he loved me. He understands. My wife and I are doing our best to teach he and his sisters to love.


And if you think I'm the downfall of this website and wish things went back to the old days...


And with that, I've said my piece on the topic. If people really want to learn and make a difference, opportunity is there.

I'll let this discussion continue on here as long as it remains civil. I started the thread so people could read countless numbers of people from the Hawkeye community speak out. I think it's valuable to see the impact it's having on the Iowa sports community.

 

[PCHawk]

Couldn't disagree more. I'm sure some probably have with that intent. But that shouldn't be the case for most and it isn't with me. They're are plenty of whites getting in on the action of looting/rioting if not more probably. Trying to read between the lines of what everyone says all the time can be touchy. So when I point it out and your mind goes strait to the oh he's just a deflecting racist card that's on you. Not me. I mean what I say and say what I mean.

I will agree change hasn't happened fast enough.

Change hasn't happened fast enough, but as far as police brutality goes, it's going to change fast now. That has a little bit to do with everything going on now and a lot to do with everything getting caught on camera now. If this instance wasn't caught on camera, he would probably get away with it. Since it was, there is no chance of him getting away with it.

Here are my list of things that need to change regarding police brutality.

1- your body cam has to be on at all times when interacting with suspects.

2- more cameras in cop cars to see every angle.

3- every arrest gets examined and critiqued. If a cop pushes a bystander (like the one in the Floyd video) you ask the cop why he did it. Then you tell him why it's wrong (if it was wrong) and let him know what will happen if he does it again. If a cop does worse than that, he gets disciplined worse. You give the cops a bit of slack for a first offense as long as it wasn't too extreme. But you hammer them hard on a second offense.

If all these things get incorporated, police brutality will drop to almost nothing. That smug cop looked into the camera like he was untouchable. That will probably never happen again.

Another good thing would be to release all of that footage to the public if a case goes viral. It would do everyone good to also see the times where cops had to use extreme force to save lives. Maybe if enough cases go viral where suspects left the cop no choice, it would force the other side to see they need to work on things too. (And by other side, I mean criminals, not blacks)

 

[PCHawk]

Do they?

Well I don't know. You said everyone knows looting and rioting is bad, but there is a lot of it going on and a lot of people justifying it.

 

[PCHawk]

Oh no not at all. It surprises me that that person exists though. Not gonna lie. That is not what most would think in that situation. She's a bit of a unicorn I would bet.

There is at least one of everybody so you can always find evidence of something. I'm pretty sure you're right tho and most people would be devastated if their life was destroyed.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

Of course discussion is important. And it needs to continue. But it's not enough. And there's no time to waste on people who are hurt by being called out for whataboutism or who want to ignore the concept of White Privilege or don't understand why black people riot.

Change is going to take time. We've had hundreds of years of built in systemic racism. Try to reach the reachable. Don't waste time pounding heads against the wall trying to reach people with deep-ingrained unconscious bias. We've seen it here with many posters regarding the Gary Dolphin comments.

My son saw me cry for the first time today. I was in tears in my kitchen when he came in this morning. He hugged me and said he loved me. He understands. My wife and I are doing our best to teach he and his sisters to love.


And if you think I'm the downfall of this website and wish things went back to the old days...


And with that, I've said my piece on the topic. If people really want to learn and make a difference, opportunity is there.

I'll let this discussion continue on here as long as it remains civil. I started the thread so people could read countless numbers of people from the Hawkeye community speak out. I think it's valuable to see the impact it's having on the Iowa sports community.

This is obviously an emotional subject for you.

If sharing your experiences helps at least one person reflect and see things more clearly, then it's worth the pain and effort of sharing it.

 

[4thngoal]

I've been a first hand witness to police brutality twice in my life and both instances still get my blood boiling when I think about them. FWIW, both instances were white cops to white people.

Yeah I've experienced it as well.
Something else is, nobody seemed very outraged when a African American male threw a 5 year old white boy off the 3rd floor at the mall of America awhile back.
I am in no way justifying anything or anyone.
merely pointing out that there are messed up people everywhere and in every profession.

 

[Ree4]

Of course discussion is important. And it needs to continue. But it's not enough. And there's no time to waste on people who are hurt by being called out for whataboutism or who want to ignore the concept of White Privilege or don't understand why black people riot.

Change is going to take time. We've had hundreds of years of built in systemic racism. Try to reach the reachable. Don't waste time pounding heads against the wall trying to reach people with deep-ingrained unconscious bias. We've seen it here with many posters regarding the Gary Dolphin comments.

My son saw me cry for the first time today. I was in tears in my kitchen when he came in this morning. He hugged me and said he loved me. He understands. My wife and I are doing our best to teach he and his sisters to love.


And if you think I'm the downfall of this website and wish things went back to the old days...


And with that, I've said my piece on the topic. If people really want to learn and make a difference, opportunity is there.

I'll let this discussion continue on here as long as it remains civil. I started the thread so people could read countless numbers of people from the Hawkeye community speak out. I think it's valuable to see the impact it's having on the Iowa sports community.

I've gone around and around with people on this board about opportunity. Some claim that everyone who works hard can make it into the middle class. I believe that to be false. There are certain barriers for people, lack of good upbringing, lack of education, lack of structure. The housing segregation is a big part of this. Many of these people have no hope and no way out. These are huge issues that our society has pushed onto those who are marginalized. On top of this we have an "occupying" police force that many times uses excessive force and a criminal code that further oppresses minorities - they deserve to be pissed. We as society have put them in a terrible situation for decades (even centuries) and are somehow surprised when they lash out. What did we expect would happen?

 

[SteveGarvey1]

Of course discussion is important. And it needs to continue. But it's not enough. And there's no time to waste on people who are hurt by being called out for whataboutism or who want to ignore the concept of White Privilege or don't understand why black people riot.

Change is going to take time. We've had hundreds of years of built in systemic racism. Try to reach the reachable. Don't waste time pounding heads against the wall trying to reach people with deep-ingrained unconscious bias. We've seen it here with many posters regarding the Gary Dolphin comments.

My son saw me cry for the first time today. I was in tears in my kitchen when he came in this morning. He hugged me and said he loved me. He understands. My wife and I are doing our best to teach he and his sisters to love.


And if you think I'm the downfall of this website and wish things went back to the old days...


And with that, I've said my piece on the topic. If people really want to learn and make a difference, opportunity is there.

I'll let this discussion continue on here as long as it remains civil. I started the thread so people could read countless numbers of people from the Hawkeye community speak out. I think it's valuable to see the impact it's having on the Iowa sports community.

I agree with most of your post. I don't agree with Jon Miller's post about guilt. I don't feel guilty about the past history of racism because I didn't have anything to do with it. I do, however, recognize its effect on African Americans and history and how its harder to overcome it. But I don't think "guilt" is the right word.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Change hasn't happened fast enough, but as far as police brutality goes, it's going to change fast now. That has a little bit to do with everything going on now and a lot to do with everything getting caught on camera now. If this instance wasn't caught on camera, he would probably get away with it. Since it was, there is no chance of him getting away with it.

Here are my list of things that need to change regarding police brutality.

1- your body cam has to be on at all times when interacting with suspects.

2- more cameras in cop cars to see every angle.

3- every arrest gets examined and critiqued. If a cop pushes a bystander (like the one in the Floyd video) you ask the cop why he did it. Then you tell him why it's wrong (if it was wrong) and let him know what will happen if he does it again. If a cop does worse than that, he gets disciplined worse. You give the cops a bit of slack for a first offense as long as it wasn't too extreme. But you hammer them hard on a second offense.

If all these things get incorporated, police brutality will drop to almost nothing. That smug cop looked into the camera like he was untouchable. That will probably never happen again.

Another good thing would be to release all of that footage to the public if a case goes viral. It would do everyone good to also see the times where cops had to use extreme force to save lives. Maybe if enough cases go viral where suspects left the cop no choice, it would force the other side to see they need to work on things too. (And by other side, I mean criminals, not blacks)

Agree with every word of this. Transparency and the fact cameras are almost everywhere all the time anyway is great. Their body cams need to be on all the time. Which makes this case all that much more unreal. That cop knew he was being filmed by bystanders as he was being yelled at and still was as stone cold oblivious to what he was doing. I do wonder though with him being on suicide watch will he have a better chance of surviving till his trial as Epstein did?..

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

I've gone around and around with people on this board about opportunity. Some claim that everyone who works hard can make it into the middle class. I believe that to be false. There are certain barriers for people, lack of good upbringing, lack of education, lack of structure. The housing segregation was a big part of this. Many of these people have no hope and no way out. These are huge issues that our society has pushed onto those who are marginalized. On top of this we have an "occupying" police force that many times uses excessive force and a criminal code that further oppresses minorities - they deserve to be pissed. We as society have put them in a terrible situation for decades (even centuries) and are somehow surprised when they lash out. What did we expect would happen?

I agree for the most part, but many can and do rise above (I can personally attest to that knowing that I'm the exception, not the rule).

I think the bigger hurdle at play is the general mindset that has been created by these barriers over the course of many years. My research thesis in college was on the theory of "Learned Helplessness," a term first described and put forth by a psychologist by the name of Martin Seligman in the mid to late 60s.

https://study.com/academy/lesson/ho...y-applies-to-human-depression-and-stress.html

It's the tip of the iceberg, but can really shed light on many issues, including difficulties overcoming institutional challenges, while also applying in part to individual issues such as depression.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I agree with most of your post. I don't agree with Jon Miller's post about guilt. I don't feel guilty about the past history of racism because I didn't have anything to do with it. I do, however, recognize its effect on African Americans and history and how its harder to overcome it. But I don't think "guilt" is the right word.

Yeah I'm not down with being shamed/guilted due to what our ancestors did either. Because then what? What's that even really mean? My guess is that it leads down the road to reparations. Am I supposed to start getting 'taxed' for the lack of a better word for that? Sorry not sorry I'm not playing that game. I take responsibility for me and mine. You want to start going back 3 plus generations for the sake of playing the blame game where's it stop and who gets to be the almighty to decide how much and who gets what? Nope nope nope. I'm a pretty big proponent of self accountability and reliance. That sort of stuff just rubs me wrong.

 

[PCHawk]

I've gone around and around with people on this board about opportunity. Some claim that everyone who works hard can make it into the middle class. I believe that to be false. There are certain barriers for people, lack of good upbringing, lack of education, lack of structure. The housing segregation was a big part of this. Many of these people have no hope and no way out. These are huge issues that our society has pushed onto those who are marginalized. On top of this we have an "occupying" police force that many times uses excessive force and a criminal code that further oppresses minorities - they deserve to be pissed. We as society have put them in a terrible situation for decades (even centuries) and are somehow surprised when they lash out. What did we expect would happen?

What sucks is those barriers you talk about have nothing to do with the color of your skin. Sure black people have to deal with those obstacles more. But the barrier isn't due to the color of their skin. It's due to their upbringing.

100 years ago, some black people raised their kids telling them they had no chance in a white world, and at the time it was true. Then 50 years ago, some black people were still raising their kids to think they had no chance and it was slightly less true. 20 years ago it was even less true. Now today, when people tell their kids that, they are completely sabotaging them. Because while there is still some truth to black people having some disadvantages, those disadvantages are less relevant than the damage the parents have done. And the thing is, there are white people that raise their kids with that attitude too. Black people don't have the market cornered on losing in life due to shitty parents.

 

[PCHawk]

Agree with every word of this. Transparency and the fact cameras are almost everywhere all the time anyway is great. Their body cams need to be on all the time. Which makes this case all that much more unreal. That cop knew he was being filmed by bystanders as he was being yelled at and still was as stone cold oblivious to what he was doing. I do wonder though with him being on suicide watch will he have a better chance of surviving till his trial as Epstein did?..

The only difference here between guys like us and other guys is our opinions on the best way to end racism. We all hate racism and want it to end, we just have different opinions on how to accomplish it. In our minds, it's more racist to say a white cop killed a black man. In their minds it's more racist to say a cop killed a man. Without a doubt, the only way to truly be free of racism is to get to the point where we say it my way. But maybe the only way we get to that point is to say it their way first.

 

[Ree4]

Housing segregation was a big part of this? Was? LOL.

Fixed, wrong tense

 

[RobHowe]

 

[Hawk1960]

Housing segregation was a big part of this? Was? LOL. The Northern states have housing and school segregation levels that would get public officials in the South arrested for violating decades' old court orders and consent decrees. Every single major northern city (and even places like Des Moines and Waterloo) is heavily segregated and the code to keep it alive is "How are the schools in the area?" In the South, the school funding model is predominantly driven by the state, but in the north it is locally funded by property taxes, which is why you will have a massive spending disparity between schools that are a couple of miles apart. Yet mark my words, for all the lip service the sanctimonious Yankees give to "it's all systematic racism" or "eat me last, I am atoning for my implicit bias" if the rubber were to hit the road and someone actually undertook an effort to implement Southern style busing policies across the North, guys in places like Hinsdale with 14 year old daughters who were going to get bused into Cicero or Garfield Park would go on a tantrum that would make George Wallace blush and the rush for private school enrollment would crash servers within hours of the decision to desegregate the schools.

Many states, including Iowa, have open enrollment to at least offer the opportunity for anyone in one of those so called bad districts an opportunity to attend the public school of their choosing. It beats the hell out of forced busing.

 

[RobHowe]

 

[revkev73]

No excuse for murder on any level, in any profession. We are a country of laws, let there be a fair trial (life often isn't fair) and a sentence for all races.

That said, if you are a white you have an 11 times greater +/- chance of being murdered by an African American than a the opposite. I would like to see fair and honest reporting on this disparity, the crimes of which are often conveniently hidden from the public by the press, etc. because it would create "racism."

I would like fair and honest reporting of the many police officers who are attacked and murdered by African Americans while on duty. Dealing with alcohol/drugs/domestic/gang issues creates highly stressful and dangerous situations for the mostly honest and patriotic law enforcement officers in our country.

All races and professions need to be called to account or this country will burn with fires and revenge.

Racism is easy to find among whites and it is quite easy to find among African Americans. Is this fairly reported or allowed to be discussed with an open mind?

Let's hear some honest facts, and make a commitment to change. This will not end well for anyone.

My two cents...

 

[Northside Hawk]

Have I ever told you about my fourth child?

That's because we couldn't get him out of the system in time. He was in an abusive home with my youngest surviving child and he was drowned in a bathtub on June 12, 2010.

Bi-racial like my other three he at the time lived with his uncle and Aunt. The bathtub was a common method of abuse in the house as the two kids were often held down forcefully in hot or cold water. Meanwhile the three biological kids in the house, who have since been put into foster care by the social workers, were never abused.

When I heard the story about the officer and George Floyd the first thing I though of was this three year old being held down in the bathtub that afternoon. I don't believe the officer wanted to kill Floyd and I don't want to think this woman wanted to kill my children's youngest sibling. But people freak out in moments of God knows what, and they go too far.

Collin would be thirteen today. We never got to meet him. My two oldest never got to meet him. Thank God my youngest was in the other bathtub that day or it might have been him. The aunt was convicted of some kind of manslaughter charge, partially because she was found mentally unstable, and is actually eligible for parole this year. I hope she doesn't come close.

The final question that has to be answered here is Where were the social workers in all this? They were a little late to the party. They had evidence of issues, but didn't get the children out of there in time to prevent a tragedy from happening. As I said the aunt and uncles three biologicals are now in foster care and are actually grown adults and the other from my kids biological mother is with us.

We considered pursuing legal action against Iowa social workers and may have had a solid case had we asked our now sixteen year old son to go up on that stand and testify. But he has been through years of counseling and there was no way in hell we were exposing him to that nightmare again even if, according to our lawyer, we had a chance at six or seven figures. And that was that.

Three years ago my wife, then high school junior daughter and I were in Iowa City for a two day college visit when we got a call out of the blue from our kids' biological mother. My daughter's biological father, who none of us have met, was living in Clinton, was a known drug dealer, frequently armed, and was on the lookout for our daughter. He was supposedly going to try to meet her at Cuba City High School. Thank God he didn't realize we were in Iowa City that day. We had to of course alert the school authorities and local police and nothing ever came out of it, but damn, the thing adoptive parents of bi-racial children go through.

I know this doesn't have much to do with Iowa athlete's views on this topic, but perhaps my point of view, as the father of three (and sadly not four) bi-racial adopted children is a unique one here and can add some insight.

 

[Hawk1960]

Have I ever told you about my fourth child?

That's because we couldn't get him out of the system in time. He was in an abusive home with my youngest surviving child and he was drowned in a bathtub on June 12, 2010.

Bi-racial like my other three he at the time lived with his uncle and Aunt. The bathtub was a common method of abuse in the house as the two kids were often held down forcefully in hot or cold water. Meanwhile the three biological kids in the house, who have since been put into foster care by the social workers, were never abused.

When I heard the story about the officer and George Floyd the first thing I though of was this three year old being held down in the bathtub that afternoon. I don't believe the officer wanted to kill Floyd and I don't want to think this woman wanted to kill my children's youngest sibling. But people freak out in moments of God knows what, and they go too far.

Collin would be thirteen today. We never got to meet him. My two oldest never got to meet him. Thank God my youngest was in the other bathtub that day or it might have been him. The aunt was convicted of some kind of manslaughter charge, partially because she was found mentally unstable, and is actually eligible for parole this year. I hope she doesn't come close.

The final question that has to be answered here is Where were the social workers in all this? They were a little late to the party. They had evidence of issues, but didn't get the children out of there in time to prevent a tragedy from happening. As I said the aunt and uncles three biologicals are now in foster care and are actually grown adults and the other from my kids biological mother is with us.

We considered pursuing legal action against Iowa social workers and may have had a solid case had we asked our now sixteen year old son to go up on that stand and testify. But he has been through years of counseling and there was no way in hell we were exposing him to that nightmare again even if, according to our lawyer, we had a chance at six or seven figures. And that was that.

Three years ago my wife, then high school junior daughter and I were in Iowa City for a two day college visit when we got a call out of the blue from our kids' biological mother. My daughter's biological father, who none of us have met, was living in Clinton, was a known drug dealer, frequently armed, and was on the lookout for our daughter. He was supposedly going to try to meet her at Cuba City High School. Thank God he didn't realize we were in Iowa City that day. We had to of course alert the school authorities and local police and nothing ever came out of it, but damn, the thing adoptive parents of bi-racial children go through.

I know this doesn't have much to do with Iowa athlete's views on this topic, but perhaps my point of view, as the father of three (and sadly not four) bi-racial adopted children is a unique one here and can add some insight.

I tip my hat to you for stepping up and raising those three kids. I'm sure it's been a struggle at times but I'm sure some day you and your wife will look back and say it was all worth it. Maybe you already have.