Good look at what the Big Ten may resemble next season

PCBHAWK said:
How many D-1 basketball payers each year in Iowa? Around 10 maybe?

In larger cities, you can have 10 D-1 players in a HS conference. These 4 star players go up against other D-1 players every week. Did Woodbury face a D-1 center all year?

I played HS basketball in Iowa and College Bball in Florida. At 18 I quickly realized the athletic talent disparities.

Iowa does produce great college players, about 10 every 15 years.
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Iowa produced 2 top 50 players this year in Paige and Woodbury. last year Iowa had top 150 player and a 4 * on scout in Uthoff who is RS at Wisconcin this past season
Barnes a 5* the year before. Next season there are 2 that very well could end up 4*'s by the end of the summer in Jok and Morgan and Roy William is starting to watch Morgan. times are achanging bud this is not the 60's 70's or 80's where jids played 4 to five sports being good but not great at anyone sport, today kids have summer AAU ball that starts about the end of April that rumn thru Sept. the statement of playing against top talent means you are living in the past, as is the statement about producing top talent every 10- 15 years, join the 21st century, i don't know how many time i have to point out how OFTEN Woodbury competed against the 5* players and more than held his own, but again use the arguement Iowa players can't be any good because they never play against top talent.
Woodbury nay not have had top talent to go up against in the HS games but he did end up facing DBL Teams and Triple teams something he won't face in college.nor do the other big city kids do
 
imported_Tmoney12 said:
While lumping everyone that disagrees with you into the same pot. You would think after your Gabe perdictions AND the fact you downgraded the sh!t outta Woodbury last off season you would slow down. But you don't...

Also you said you expect Gesell to replicate Bryce's numbers then go on a rant about me and Foval downgrading his talents, not saying he will be as good as Burke?? Contradict yourself much??? Silly question, my bad.
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are you that hard up to star on me about Gesell.
i said he will not have to put up the #'s Burke did, that doesn't mean he won't be as good or better.
with up coming Iowa team Gesell will have a very solid core to play with, Marble the leading returning scorer who went from scoring 5.7 points as a freshmen to 11.5 his sophamore season that is a little over dbl'ing his offensive output.
White at 11.1 is the 2nd leading scorer is returning and a Freshmen AA
Basabe, May, McCabe, Oglesby are going to be there as well,
with Top 50 player Woodbury being a possible starter and more than likely will be the starter.
then you add in Olaseni being a factor with a full year under Fran and his staff will also contribute, with Meyer, Ingram and Clemmons who is reguarded as the #1 pg and 3rd best player that played against the big school talent in a state that produce more than 10 DI prospect a year, who also was named to the state of Michigan super state team, the all state teams for Georgia are not out yet, and i have not seen Indiana All State teams posted, oh wait Indiana is not on par with a Chicago or NY, so Ingram must be a bad player.
anything you want to rip on me about now?
 
PCBHAWK said:
How many D-1 basketball payers each year in Iowa? Around 10 maybe?

In larger cities, you can have 10 D-1 players in a HS conference. These 4 star players go up against other D-1 players every week. Did Woodbury face a D-1 center all year?

I played HS basketball in Iowa and College Bball in Florida. At 18 I quickly realized the athletic talent disparities.

Iowa does produce great college players, about 10 every 15 years.
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Holy heck, don't you think that maybe Woodbury played against top talent on the AAU circuit. Some people need to get off this high school competition thing. That is not where ratings are made for these players. That is done on the AAU circuit where they are playing the other elite high school players in the country. Woodbury did very well, garnering the MVP honors of the NBA Camp. He wasn't facing local Iowa high school talent in those events. My gosh.
 
first of all i never downgrade iowa hs sports. i believe that in basketball and football we are much better than most give us credit for.

i have stated that gesell or any of the recruits could be great, average or terrible. it is all a crap shoot no matter what you actually think.

my point is the higher you set the bar the farther the fall. i was using burke and gesell as an example because he is thrown out their with your facts that you commonly contradict. well gesell is great because of his rankings. well the rankers dont know what they are doing because white was rated terribly. which is it they are good or bad...wait maybe it is because it is all complete speculation like you are doing....duh.

i want to enjoy the sport while watching and burke ascending this yr was so great for michigan because it wasnt expected. while all these expectations make barnes a bust to people.

herby you take everything as an affront to your opinion. and yes it is complete opinion because you have zero actual knowledge on how these players will play in college you are speculating.

i want them to be great. but i am not going to put the bar so high that i am calling for their head if they dont live up to it. you say olaseni will get great numbers as a frosh...really the kid was playing like his 4th yr of organized bball. if you say gesell is the next burke and clemmons comes in and beats him out and he plays 10 min a game people will have another thing to rip on you with and then you will complain that it is undeserved. just remember you reap what you sow.

i have seen both woodbury and gesell play and they are good. but they both will have a lot to learn when they get on campus to live up to the expectations people are putting on them. hopefully they do. again to help your reading comprehension....i want them to be all world but i dont expect them to be trey burke and cody zeller because players like that dont happen all that often even to schools like michigan and indiana.
 
Miracles truly do happen Foval... You just typed everything I think except 100x better and we agreed twice in one night.

We are all Hawk fans just because some of us have predictions less then other doesn't mean we don't trust Fran or that we don't trust the team. Some of us are more realistic than others.

Fran 4 Life
 
imported_Tmoney12 said:
While lumping everyone that disagrees with you into the same pot. You would think after your Gabe perdictions AND the fact you downgraded the sh!t outta Woodbury last off season you would slow down. But you don't...

Also you said you expect Gesell to replicate Bryce's numbers then go on a rant about me and Foval downgrading his talents, not saying he will be as good as Burke?? Contradict yourself much??? Silly question, my bad.
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you know you are the biggest liar on here, just where did i say Gesell would replicate Burke's #'s.
i said Gesell does not have to duplicate Burke's #'s to be as good or even better than Burke is.
as for Woodbury i had not seen any vid's on the kid, and i had "MY" opinion of how Gabe would perform
and under that premise i did not see Woodbury starting over a sophamore with a year under his belt. I also said "IF" A VERY BIG IF Gabe started he could avg 7-8 ppg and 9-11 rpg. he did not start so the prediction goes out the window on production,
after seeing how this season went and AFTER SEEING vid's on Woodbury COMPETE againsat the BEST in the country i am more than satisfied in his ability to start this fall.
now what else are youi going to twist into more of your LIES
which by stating i said Gabe would post a dbl dbl, which i never did, again you have proved yourself to be the BIGGEST LIAR on the boards
 
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So since Gabe didn't start you are nullified??? wow

So MG doesn't have to be as good as Burke but you compare them every chance you can???

Crack kills brah
 
Herby................ Take a shot of Wild Turkey and chase it with your favorite beer then retire for the evening. Things will be better tomorrow!
 
I think these league ratings are pretty solid,really.
IU does not lose much if any off of a 4 seed in the Tourny...and adds a top 5 class.
OSU does probably lose Sully which is huge,but they will have a solid core returning,with Amir Williams(a top 50 recruit last year) to step in at center.
If Burke returns to Michigan,and Big Dog jr.along with the #3 player in the country coming in to fill their empty slots...they are set.
Wis....decker is a top 20 player...and they return everyone but Taylor.
MSU- great class coming.
Minny- if preseason all league Mbakwe returns,they are set.

After that,it will be a scramble. Purdue has a higher rated incoming class than Iowa but Iowa returns more.
Illinois loses Leonard,has a new coach...so wildcard.
NW only loses Shurna,and returns 5 good shooters,along with some bodies.

Only Neb and PSU are probably out of the running for a tourny bid next year.
I think the league could get 8-9 bids next year. Iowa could be one of them...exciting times!
 
herbyhawk said:
is that so, then explain the players like Barnes, Collison, Hinrich, Paige and Lafrentz, there is a reason why they are in the top 100 and Woodbury in the top 50. it sure wasn't because how they sat on a bench twittling their thumbs, and for tha record. Gesell is from Nebraska, Clemmons is from Michigan, Meyer is from Georgia, and Ingram is from Indiana.
the they are just Iowa kids is getting old. unless you are saying only Roy Toy is the only coach capable of getting top talent out of Iowa, and Fran gets only dog crap players that don't belong in the BT
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1. Barnes has been considered largely a disappointment in Chapel Hill (unfairly, but still).
2. Lafrentz had two solid years before exploding as a junior and senior.
3. Collison took off as a sophomore.
4. Hinrich didn't really take off until his junior season (had a solid sophomore year, though).
5. Paige has yet to set foot on a college basketball court.

That's not to say that Gesell and Woodbury won't be good players. But they aren't of one and done caliber, which is what the majority of high-impact freshmen are these days.
 
Apparently herby thinks that the B1G is going to be junk next year and the only team that is going to get better players or improve is Iowa. Nobody here is hating on Iowa but the facts of the matter are:

MSU will be more talented than Iowa.
OSU will be more talented than Iowa.
Wisky has never finished below 4th place in the league since Bo has been there and he has only won like 70% of his conference games.
IF Minnesota can find a scholly for Mbakwe, they will push for at least top half of the conference, Im even thinking Top 3.
IF Zeller comes back, Indiana will be more talented than Iowa. They have the #2 recruiting class in the nation I believe.
I think Michigan and Iowa will have about equal talent, if Burke returns to school.
Purdue, NW, Nebraska, Illinois and PSU will not be a factor in the league title race next year.

The B1G is going to be better next year than it was this year. It will be a dogfight all year long and road wins will be scarce again for a lot of teams. I would be thrilled with a top half finish and think we can get there because of how our schedule sets up.
 
imported_Tmoney12 said:
Pat, what are your number expectations for our top 150 recruits this coming season?
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I think Wood bury can give you 8 points a game and around 5 rebounds. Not to mention the impact he will have on just being a presence down low which will have a direct affect for players like Basabe and McCabe.

As for Gesell, I would put him around 8 pts a game and about 3.5 assists. Again though his impact will be felt more than just his numbers. His play along with Clemmons will allow Marble the freedom to play the wing which is what we saw at Oregon.

With the kids coming in Iowa will finish no lower than 6 in conference and imo I think they finish top 5 easily and will be in the tournament.

Some posters on here seem to be afraid of expectations and they shouldnt be. Just because a kid is higher rated and comes with expectations but doesn't live up to those expectations, that doesn't mean he will be more ridiculed than a less heralded player. Look at the Eric Mays of the world. He was a lower recruit yet he gets as much heat as any heralded player.
 
Section136 said:
Apparently herby thinks that the B1G is going to be junk next year and the only team that is going to get better players or improve is Iowa. Nobody here is hating on Iowa but the facts of the matter are:

MSU will be more talented than Iowa.
OSU will be more talented than Iowa.
Wisky has never finished below 4th place in the league since Bo has been there and he has only won like 70% of his conference games.
IF Minnesota can find a scholly for Mbakwe, they will push for at least top half of the conference, Im even thinking Top 3.
IF Zeller comes back, Indiana will be more talented than Iowa. They have the #2 recruiting class in the nation I believe.
I think Michigan and Iowa will have about equal talent, if Burke returns to school.
Purdue, NW, Nebraska, Illinois and PSU will not be a factor in the league title race next year.

The B1G is going to be better next year than it was this year. It will be a dogfight all year long and road wins will be scarce again for a lot of teams. I would be thrilled with a top half finish and think we can get there because of how our schedule sets up.
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so which is it incoming talent can't be judged and yet you use the Indiana has a #2 ranked class to bolster you arguement of talent?. Iowa has the 20th ranked class, who will Wisconcin have has their pg after Taylor leaves who some said was the best in theBT at pg. Brust. yeah right. and i don't buy the, they have not finished below 4th as part of the arguement for just giving them a top 5 in the BT, Iowa beat them twice this season with far less depth and talent as you like to say, Iowa needed just 3 wins to get into 5th place. a split with NW, Purdue and Nebraska, all home games and then beat Cambell at home to reach 20-11 before Tourney play, but the fact is they didn't to expect better play at home should be expected. the fans will make Carver a tough place to play,
the schedule helps, Iowa plays once at OSU big deal, MSU and Illinois play at Iowa, MSU at Iowa is not a cakewalk for MSU even Lick beat MSU at home, and MSU loses Dramon Green but i suppose their incoming recruits will be super studs right off the bat. Michigan will be on the road and if the #1 pick "Burke" in the lottery draft leave, who does Michigan have, oh wait their highly rated recruit McGary will step in and carry the team to the BT title,
i guess i should resign myself to consider Iowa's Top 20 class cannot get us out of the bottum of the BT, nor should i expect a winning season because the teams you listed are NBA level teams, and how in the world was i foolish enough to try and hope to compete.
i surrender it is back to the basement for Iowa as they have no chance of competing against such supior teams
 
herbyhawk said:
so which is it incoming talent can't be judged and yet you use the Indiana has a #2 ranked class to bolster you arguement of talent?. Iowa has the 20th ranked class, who will Wisconcin have has their pg after Taylor leaves who some said was the best in theBT at pg. Brust. yeah right. and i don't buy the, they have not finished below 4th as part of the arguement for just giving them a top 5 in the BT, Iowa beat them twice this season with far less depth and talent as you like to say, Iowa needed just 3 wins to get into 5th place. a split with NW, Purdue and Nebraska, all home games and then beat Cambell at home to reach 20-11 before Tourney play, but the fact is they didn't to expect better play at home should be expected. the fans will make Carver a tough place to play,
the schedule helps, Iowa plays once at OSU big deal, MSU and Illinois play at Iowa, MSU at Iowa is not a cakewalk for MSU even Lick beat MSU at home, and MSU loses Dramon Green but i suppose their incoming recruits will be super studs right off the bat. Michigan will be on the road and if the #1 pick "Burke" in the lottery draft leave, who does Michigan have, oh wait their highly rated recruit McGary will step in and carry the team to the BT title,
i guess i should resign myself to consider Iowa's Top 20 class cannot get us out of the bottum of the BT, nor should i expect a winning season because the teams you listed are NBA level teams, and how in the world was i foolish enough to try and hope to compete.
i surrender it is back to the basement for Iowa as they have no chance of competing against such supior teams
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Once again you are proving how big of an idiot you are and how big of a reading problem you have.

I never said you couldnt use incoming talent as a reason to expect to be better. I said Iowa isnt the only team with good to great talent coming into the program next year. Indiana's returning talent plus their incoming class will make a better roster than Iowa's. Im not saying they will be a better team, but they will be more talented.

Im not putting Wisconsin lower than 4th in the conference until they finish there again, which they have done in the past 10-12 years. They are always losing good players but always find a way to win games. I hate Bo Ryan as much as anyone but his teams always win games.

I said the schedule sets up for the Hawks next year, so thank you for agreeing with me. And I also said Michigan and Iowa would have about equal talent if Burke returns to Michigan.

I never once said any team in the B1G is "NBA level". I dont know why you think it is back to the basement for the Hawks, as you just said in the post I quoted, and its a little harsh to say they have no chance of competing next year. You have very little faith in Fran.

I said I would be thrilled with a top half finish (1st-6th in the conference) and think we can get there.
 
herbyhawk said:
so which is it incoming talent can't be judged and yet you use the Indiana has a #2 ranked class to bolster you arguement of talent?. Iowa has the 20th ranked class, who will Wisconcin have has their pg after Taylor leaves who some said was the best in theBT at pg. Brust. yeah right. and i don't buy the, they have not finished below 4th as part of the arguement for just giving them a top 5 in the BT, Iowa beat them twice this season with far less depth and talent as you like to say, Iowa needed just 3 wins to get into 5th place. a split with NW, Purdue and Nebraska, all home games and then beat Cambell at home to reach 20-11 before Tourney play, but the fact is they didn't to expect better play at home should be expected. the fans will make Carver a tough place to play,
the schedule helps, Iowa plays once at OSU big deal, MSU and Illinois play at Iowa, MSU at Iowa is not a cakewalk for MSU even Lick beat MSU at home, and MSU loses Dramon Green but i suppose their incoming recruits will be super studs right off the bat. Michigan will be on the road and if the #1 pick "Burke" in the lottery draft leave, who does Michigan have, oh wait their highly rated recruit McGary will step in and carry the team to the BT title,
i guess i should resign myself to consider Iowa's Top 20 class cannot get us out of the bottum of the BT, nor should i expect a winning season because the teams you listed are NBA level teams, and how in the world was i foolish enough to try and hope to compete.
i surrender it is back to the basement for Iowa as they have no chance of competing against such supior teams
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Again, Herby you do not know what you are talking about. None of the top three recruiting services; ESPN, Rivals & Scout has Iowa as a top-twenty recruiting class. ESPN has Iowa ranked as the twenty-first best class.

Even if Iowa has a top twenty class, it is generally considered to be the fifth best class in the Big Ten. Plus, O$U may not bring in any recruits this year & still will have more talent than Iowa next year.

Gesell & Woodbury could exceed your expectations & Iowa still could finish seventh in the Big Ten next year. The conference is going to be brutal next year. The Big Ten will be better next year.
 
PatrickAdamovicz said:
imported_Tmoney12 said:
Pat, what are your number expectations for our top 150 recruits this coming season?
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I think Wood bury can give you 8 points a game and around 5 rebounds. Not to mention the impact he will have on just being a presence down low which will have a direct affect for players like Basabe and McCabe. As for Gesell, I would put him around 8 pts a game and about 3.5 assists. Again though his impact will be felt more than just his numbers. His play along with Clemmons will allow Marble the freedom to play the wing which is what we saw at Oregon. With the kids coming in Iowa will finish no lower than 6 in conference and imo I think they finish top 5 easily and will be in the tournament.Some posters on here seem to be afraid of expectations and they shouldnt be. Just because a kid is higher rated and comes with expectations but doesn't live up to those expectations, that doesn't mean he will be more ridiculed than a less heralded player. Look at the Eric Mays of the world. He was a lower recruit yet he gets as much heat as any heralded player.
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How many true freshman 7'0 averaged 8 and 5 the last couple years?
 
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