We had two players that had a shot at the NBA, one of them drafted 16th, and we still finished tied for 3rd two years ago and weren't even close to winning the league. That's the point I was trying to make, thanks.
Fran's recruiting
- Thread starter JHHawk
- Start date
We had two players that had a shot at the NBA, one of them drafted 16th, and we still finished tied for 3rd two years ago and weren't even close to winning the league. That's the point I was trying to make, thanks.
Wisconsin gets 4th pretty much every year, which is what I was saying. One 4* recruit/performance per class is not enough to compete for championships.
Burke and Oledipo were both top 150 recruits. You're just proving my point.
I'll agree with most of this. There are good players outside the top 150 and a few bad ones in it, but I'm not sold on 1 ranked player a year to be an elite team. A great team maybe, but elite teams that are in the top 25 on a consistent basis sign more than one ranked kid a year and it depends where exactly the kid is ranked. Some teams can do it without a bunch of ranked kids, but only if you want to subject your fans to first to 40 point contests like Wisconsin.
With Ingram's departure we actually had two schollys to give, but I concede that it was late in the game when Ingram announced his departure....and I do not think Fran shoved him out. If Jok plays better than his ranking, this season will not be a loss, but it is a small class nevertheless, and that puts big pressure on the class behind him(2014) and we all know how that has gone to this point....many misses. So, that rolls downhill and puts even more pressure on the 2015 class....hope we have a big season on the court and land some top 150 guys. If we miss again, that will be a 3 year drought in no top 150 recruits....that would be a concern....so lets hope it does not go that way.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
No I didn't, I annihilated your point. 140th ranked kids are nowhere near 4* players, and it isn't even close, they aren't even the borderline 4* kids. Can't have your cake and eat it to, and you are actually making my points. That all you need is the kid to PLAY like a 4*, not be a 4*. So if you get (2) 3* kids, but they are Burke and Olendepo, you are just as good off, if not better off than nabbing 2 4* kids.
Going back the last 6 years, this is how far out of 1st Wisconsin has been:
2 GB
1 GB
3 GB
1 GB
5 GB
Won the BIG
So 3 out of the last 6 years, Wisky is 1 game behind the BIG ten champ, or was outright BIG champion. That is competing for conference titles.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Getting to the NCAA and going deep is the goal anyway. I would rather get to the elite 8 and finish 5th in the BIG, than finishing 1st in the BIG and getting bounced 1st round as a 3 seed.
clicheusername3
Banned
I'm assuming we are done with Josh Cunningham for 2014? Did he commit to Oklahoma?
Well done.
This is how college bb has changed over the years....I am old school, as the conference title would be my choice. I have to resign myself to the fact that to the rest of the world the college bb season is really just 3 weeks long, and nothing that goes on before that means much.....wake me in March is todays college bb fans take. It is why I am so resistant to a college fb playoff....only 3 games in January will matter now, and any schools not among those three might as well skip the season.
The Illini fans are getting excited that there are signs that Cliff Alexander, 6'9'' power forward from Curie HS might just be leaning to the Illini over Kansas...he is announcing soon. He is rated the #3 player in the 2014 class and a probable one and done guy to the NBA...but he is a beast. Groce is seeking to get his 7th top 75 player since he arrived 1.5 years ago....mini-matta. The Illini are gonna be very good starting next year, I suspect.
I would be shocked if he goes to Illinois over KU. They are making a big deal bc there was a rumor he narrowed his choice to DePaul and Illjnois which his family shot down then they got excited bc Self canceled an in home visit this week. Well it was cancelled bc he is actually going to Lawrence again this weekend so Self didnt need to go to Chicago. His GF plays ball at KU.
Husky28
Well-Known Member
I agree with your premise on ranked players and hope Iowa gets there... my discussion isn't about the odds of the outliers becoming good college basketball players as much as in Fran's ability to recognize and find those 2 & 3* players that will be good college players. I believe Jok and White are good examples of players slipping under the radar... that being said, the jury is still out on Jok. Technically, wouldn't Uthoff be a Fran recruit? LOL
Jok wasn't "under the radar", he was widely considered a top 50 player in the '13 class his sophmore year in HS but then he had injuries to both his knees. He really didn't get back to 100% until his senior season.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I don't want to sneeze at a conference title, that isn't what I meant. I don't let the NCAA totally define the whole season. I'm just saying that given a choice (which obviously you don't get a choice), I'd prefer to play longer in the tourney than win the BIG.
Please don't try to pawn off Fred's inability to coach as proof that you need more than 2 stud players to compete for league championships. Thanks.
FranklinHawk
Well-Known Member
Interesting.... Pete's knee injury (yes, 1 and not both) happened the summer after his Freshman year, he played his entire Soph year with the injury thinking it was tendonitis initially. You are correct though in that he wasn't recovered until his Senior year, and I'd even say in the last half of the season to be approaching 100%.
Husky28
Well-Known Member
True from the perspective that he once had the attention... not so much if he blows up into a marquee player. If (as I said before, the jury is still out on him) he turns into an all conference player... there's not a team (excepting maybe Kentucky) in America that wouldn't have wanted him on their roster - even if that meant he would have sat on the bench for a year. That's what makes him an under the radar player... nobody wanted to take a chance on him. In reality, isn't that what lower ranked recruits are? Players that teams are less willing to take a chance on?
FranklinHawk
Well-Known Member
Pete's case admittedly is a bit different than the normal lower ranked "under the radar" guy who nobody had heard of and they blow up late or in college, more like "off the radar" due to his injury. At one point he had lots of interest from some of the blue bloods such as Duke & Kansas. Unfortunately the way his knee injury played out he basically ended up playing 2+ years on one leg, and one could argue even in his Senior season while the knee was healed completely he had to build muscles back up that hadn't been extensively used in a long time. Outside of things like shooting I think it also cost him 2 years of development in some areas, and I think we're currently seeing that on the defensive end. Athletic ability is obviously important in playing good defense, but just as important is knowing HOW to play good D. I'm not really worried about him on the offensive end, I know many think of him as a shooter but the guy really has that scorer mentality (and I see those as 2 different traits).
My money is on him becoming a centerpiece of this team throughout his career as he learns to do those things he couldn't physically do for so long, but time will tell.
clicheusername3
Banned
Lower ranked recruits are generally not as good of basketball players at the time of judgement than higher ranked recruits.
No one wanted to take a risk on him (Jok) because of possible re-injury of the knee, not because he wasn't talented. The particular post I had originally responded too was referring to Jok and White both being "under the radar". I agree to a point but for different reasons. White isn't really that basketball athletic, but he makes up for that with his great basketball IQ. Jok on the other hand it was injury related issues, not his overall talent and athletic ability.
