Fran's recruiting

[dave3912]

After reading the responses to a very legitimate thread by the OP, I now understand why Iowa voted for the clown in the WH twice. For those who have yet to grasp that this is a fan message board, let me spell it out: This is a fan message board. People are entitled to their opinions. If you don't like it, don't read it or say "Hey, I think we are OK with our recruiting because of .......'. That is what, in a free country, is a referred to as dialogue. You authoritarian types who never man up and post anything, but lay in the weeds to snipe at everyone who does are pathetic. You want a monologue where you blast everyone for everything to get some satisfaction over showing off your PhD in Toolology. If the goons on this board would quit with their Einsteinesque posts about 'We really need another one of these posts' or "I am sure Fran is reading this post right now' there might actually be interesting dialogue between non zombies. Seriously, do you guys really have no life outside of ripping people for their opinions on a fan message board?

Ted, no offense but I don't think you understand message boards at all. I get what you're trying to say in a perfect world yes I agree but this isn't a perfect world. You better relax and just only respond to those you feel who can handle normal dialogue or you're going to be upset alot.

Plus this isn't a free country on a message board, this site in particular is Jon Miller's country. If he feels someone is breaking his rules, he will handle it.

To your part I bolded, is a hyprocritical statement. You're acting as an authoritarian type by calling them out and your calling them pathetic. Brilliant.

 

[Husky28]

I am a big Fran fan, but it is hard to ignore the top talent that is flooding to virtually every Big Ten school besides Iowa....that puts tremendous pressure on Fran to have a huge recruiting class in 2015, a year with less top talent in the Midwest. I think he is a great evaluator, but has yet to really overcome our stink to land the top guys he identifies. I think he is completely honest, and not the used car salesman that some of these other coaches in the league are. Fans think I am jumping the gun, but unless you are a Kentucky, this business is always about re-stocking the cupboard, year after year, and not having a gap of empty classes. Momentum is a precious commodity in this business for programs like Iowa, and if you falter on the recruiting trail for a year, and then two...you become yesterdays news. We have good momentum until this recruiting (2014) class...another year will become an issue. If you are not getting more talented every year, you are losing ground.

For what it's worth, here's my take on it. If you're basing your evaluation solely on star rankings only, then I can see where you are coming from, but if you look at the progression and outcome of the results on the floor, it shows that Fran has the ability to recognize under ranked players and close on highly ranked in-state players (which btw IMO is the reason why Davis got fire - couldn't close on the highly ranked in-state players). Currently the product on the floor flies in the face of people being critical. Much like White, we have no idea what Uhl and the other recruit will bring to the table... no matter how many videos you watch, you have no clue what a player brings to the table. If you have a few years where the product on the floor isn't meeting expectations, then that's when the criticism should come out in full force. Truthfully, the only criticism that can be levied against Fran is losing out on highly ranked players to programs with better resumes in the last 10 or so years. I also believe that'll soon change, but I think in today's society... patience has become a lost art.

 

[HawkeyeRyno]

You are right. Only ISU fans think Fred is a good coach.

Ripping on Iowa's roster in a thread about Fran's poor recruiting is ironic.

Oh, the "zero star, white unathletic guys" aren't my words. Those are your people's words. All over the Cyclonefantic site, here, and everywhere else. I'm just taking their word for it because as we've seen Cyclone fans are the go to voice for basketball. I'm just quoting what you people have stated.

 

[ISUhawk]

Does every thread on this site get hijacked by clowns? Typical thread scroll down 15 posts and it's an ISU Iowa p*ssing contest. Go home ISU d*uches

 

[PCHawk]

Yes but if Iowa is going to compete for conference titles, they can't have two year gaps in getting great players.

1. My post wasn't about winning conference titles. It was in response to someone saying Woody's class doesn't have any help when they're juniors and seniors. I said the senior class will help them whey they're juniors.

2. Basketball isn't a sport where you need 10 all Americans to win titles. Teams win all the time with one or two studs surrounded by good role players. If we sign a class as good as the sophomore class every other year we will have no problem competing for titles.

 

[Linesetter]

1. My post wasn't about winning conference titles. It was in response to someone saying Woody's class doesn't have any help when they're juniors and seniors. I said the senior class will help them whey they're juniors.

2. Basketball isn't a sport where you need 10 all Americans to win titles. Teams win all the time with one or two studs surrounded by good role players. If we sign a class as good as the sophomore class every other year we will have no problem competing for titles.

You must be talking about conference titles because there are statistics that show that almost all National titles are won with teams that have at least 1 NBA player on their roster and most National Title teams have several. Even the Butler team that went to the Championship game had 2-3 NBA players on their team. Of course at the time everyone thought they were the Hickory Huskers but the reality was that they had talent. Gordon Haywood was a lottery pick.

It is truly amazing how many transfers Iowa States gets each year. It really is transfer U.

 

[PCHawk]

You must be talking about conference titles because there are statistics that show that almost all National titles are won with teams that have at least 1 NBA player on their roster and most National Title teams have several. Even the Butler team that went to the Championship game had 2-3 NBA players on their team. Of course at the time everyone thought they were the Hickory Huskers but the reality was that they had talent. Gordon Haywood was a lottery pick.

It is truly amazing how many transfers Iowa States gets each year. It really is transfer U.

Both my post and the post I quoted mentioned conference titles in them so yea that's what I was talking about.

 

[deanvogs]

One 4* performance player per graduating class isn't going to win you conference championships in the Big 10, or pretty much any major bball conference.

What the hell are you talking about? How many teams have 5 or more ALL conference performers on one squad in a given year?

If you hit with one player a class being an All Conference player in their Jr. and Sr. years, you will have 2 All Conference performers on the team at a time (one JR, on SR). That is usually a very good recipe for success, having 2 All Conference players on your team.

 

[Wassabbe]

Damn you Clark for bringing the Clowns into this thread.

As for Fran, I think he's a great coach. Simply fantastic really. Our kids play hard for him and are smart players. I have no doubt we are a NCAA team for the foreseeable future. With that said, jury is still out on his ability to recruit. Thankfully there have been Iowa kids lately with talent that have wanted to come here. I like that he takes over recruiting in this state. I would just feel more comfortable if he showed an ability to get top level kids from outside the state. I trust him though.

 

[Clowns]

Worked for Indiana last year.

What?

 

[Clowns]

What the hell are you talking about? How many teams have 5 or more ALL conference performers on one squad in a given year?

If you hit with one player a class being an All Conference player in their Jr. and Sr. years, you will have 2 All Conference performers on the team at a time (one JR, on SR). That is usually a very good recipe for success, having 2 All Conference players on your team.

I was responding to your post where you said "PERFORM like a 4*", not be a 4*. You need more than a couple players performing like 4* players to be a team competing for championships.

To quote your entire statement: "I realize that getting top 100 kids increases the chances of them performing to that level, but what we need is a kid from each class to PLAY and PERFORM like a 4*, not necessarily be a 4*."

In a deep league like the Big 10, you can perform at a 4* level and not make an All-Conference team. You look at the recruiting classes for tOSU, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, and Illinois and they have lots of stars in their recruiting classes and they finish at the top of the league every year. Even Wisconsin gets one 4* or 5* a year. Fran may find a few diamonds in the rough but it won't be enough to overcome the talent of those other teams. Iowa needs a class like they had 2 years ago on a more consistent basis if they want to win titles, which is presumably what the university, fans, team, and Fran is striving for.

This is the same complaint on Rhoads and recruiting, when you have middle of the pack (bottom for ISU football) recruiting, you're going to finish middle of the pack (bottom for ISU football) in the standings.

 

[Clowns]

I guess the question is if you want to be a consistent NCAA tournament team and generally receive votes in the polls most years or if you are satisfied with one year in the tournament and near the top 25, one year in the tourney, and two years in the NIT. The recruiting for Iowa the past couple seasons is setting them up for the latter.

 

[Linesetter]

I was responding to your post where you said "PERFORM like a 4*", not be a 4*. You need more than a couple players performing like 4* players to be a team competing for championships.

To quote your entire statement: "I realize that getting top 100 kids increases the chances of them performing to that level, but what we need is a kid from each class to PLAY and PERFORM like a 4*, not necessarily be a 4*."

In a deep league like the Big 10, you can perform at a 4* level and not make an All-Conference team. You look at the recruiting classes for tOSU, Michigan, MSU, Indiana, and Illinois and they have lots of stars in their recruiting classes and they finish at the top of the league every year. Even Wisconsin gets one 4* or 5* a year. Fran may find a few diamonds in the rough but it won't be enough to overcome the talent of those other teams. Iowa needs a class like they had 2 years ago on a more consistent basis if they want to win titles, which is presumably what the university, fans, team, and Fran is striving for.

This is the same complaint on Rhoads and recruiting, when you have middle of the pack (bottom for ISU football) recruiting, you're going to finish middle of the pack (bottom for ISU football) in the standings.

No they don't. If Wisconsin can win without 5* talent then so can Iowa. Neither Watford, Hulls or Oladipo were highly ranked players for Indiana. You can win without 5* guys but you better have really really good coaching.

 

[Clowns]

1. My post wasn't about winning conference titles. It was in response to someone saying Woody's class doesn't have any help when they're juniors and seniors. I said the senior class will help them whey they're juniors.

2. Basketball isn't a sport where you need 10 all Americans to win titles. Teams win all the time with one or two studs surrounded by good role players. If we sign a class as good as the sophomore class every other year we will have no problem competing for titles.

I think it takes more than one or two studs to win conference titles. This isn't the Missouri Valley we're talking about.

 

[Clowns]

No they don't. If Wisconsin can win without 5* talent then so can Iowa. Neither Watford, Hulls or Oladipo were highly ranked players for Indiana. You can win without 5* guys but you better have really really good coaching.

You must have missed the 4* or 5* part. Wisconsin gets either a 4* or a 5* each year on average.

Edit: Also, Watford was 4* and Hulls/Oladipo were both top 150.

 

[PCHawk]

I think it takes more than one or two studs to win conference titles. This isn't the Missouri Valley we're talking about.

My bad I was talking about your conference. It definitely takes more than 2 good players to win in a good conference.

 

[Johnnyhawkeye]

If we start appearing in March Madness the recruits will come, winning is the best recruiting tactic Fran can use. Keep in ncaa approved contact with these kids and see where the cards fall if we are dancing in March. I'm personally not that worried, and I really don't understand why everybody is so worked up over this. Have some faith fellas, Fran knows what he's doing.

 

[deanvogs]

You must have missed the 4* or 5* part. Wisconsin gets either a 4* or a 5* each year on average.

Edit: Also, Watford was 4* and Hulls/Oladipo were both top 150.

This actually proves the point I am making, they get one 4 or 5* player a year.....that is all you need to compete at a high level. If you miss and don't get a 4* player, but instead get a Trey Burke, or a Olendepo (both 3* in the 140's) it is the same thing. It is about getting the PRODUCTION of a 4*, not that they were ranked a 4*. There is a big difference between getting a Burke or Olendepo and getting a SDW or a Ogelsby. If you don't understand that, then I can't help you with this discussion.

 

[MisterLucky]

I am a big Fran fan, but it is hard to ignore the top talent that is flooding to virtually every Big Ten school besides Iowa....that puts tremendous pressure on Fran to have a huge recruiting class in 2015, a year with less top talent in the Midwest. I think he is a great evaluator, but has yet to really overcome our stink to land the top guys he identifies. I think he is completely honest, and not the used car salesman that some of these other coaches in the league are. Fans think I am jumping the gun, but unless you are a Kentucky, this business is always about re-stocking the cupboard, year after year, and not having a gap of empty classes. Momentum is a precious commodity in this business for programs like Iowa, and if you falter on the recruiting trail for a year, and then two...you become yesterdays news. We have good momentum until this recruiting (2014) class...another year will become an issue. If you are not getting more talented every year, you are losing ground.

I assume, because I have seen this same post by you on the other sites, that you are writing off this year's class (Jok) as a bad recruiting year. We only had one scholarship to give, or did you want Coach McCaffery to take the Hoiberg approach and just keep recruiting, and cutting, players until he's satisfied?

 

[PalmettoHawkFan]

This actually proves the point I am making, they get one 4 or 5* player a year.....that is all you need to compete at a high level. If you miss and don't get a 4* player, but instead get a Trey Burke, or a Olendepo (both 3* in the 140's) it is the same thing. It is about getting the PRODUCTION of a 4*, not that they were ranked a 4*. There is a big difference between getting a Burke or Olendepo and getting a SDW or a Ogelsby. If you don't understand that, then I can't help you with this discussion.

this

some guys are arguing from outliers -- as in: white and marble were unranked 3 stars, therefore every unranked 3 star can develop into an all-conference player.

the overwhelming majority of top 150 recruits will be very good college players; some will not

the overwhelming majority of unranked recruits will not be very good college basketball players; some will

you need to sign 1 ranked kid a year to be an elite team; or you need to have a keen eye for unranked kids who have slipped under the radar for unusual reasons.