Fran vs Hoiberg

[deanvogs]

are we seriously going to go thru this **** for the next month? ******* ISU trolls all over the place? shoot me in the head.

This isn't bad. They went away for the entire football season. They have licked their wounds, and will be ready for BB season, that is for sure. Plus some of them aren't bad, Cwood, Stew, and several others. ForeverIowan is a big d0uchebag troll, but most of the others are ok.

 

[BrueCrew3]

I think most non-Iowa fans and most non-ISU fans would say that Hoiberg has down the better job up to this point.
Both came in the same year to horrible situations. Results after 3 years are 2 NCAA tourneys and 2 wins for Hoiberg and 1 NIT tourney for Fran.

Who has the better progam going forward remains to be seen.

.

I believe this statement is wrong. Yes .. Fran's situation was horrible, but Fred's was simply bad, at worst. Fred had much more talent to work with than Fran did.

Having said that, both went separate routes to rebuild. Fred took the shorter (transfers) route while Fran chose to build from the freshmen route.

I think both are poised for a long run of good basketball over the next 5 years or so.

Just my 2¢ .. ..

GO HAWKS!!!

 

[hawkfan33]

This isn't bad. They went away for the entire football season. They have licked their wounds, and will be ready for BB season, that is for sure. Plus some of them aren't bad, Cwood, Stew, and several others. ForeverIowan is a big d0uchebag troll, but most of the others are ok.

Stewo is one of the worst. I don't think he's a troll, but he's just very ******* dumb, which is almost even more annoying.

 

[deanvogs]

Stewo is one of the worst. I don't think he's a troll, but he's just very ******* dumb, which is almost even more annoying.

Try walking a mile in an ISU fans shoes, and see how smart you seem.....

 

[longtimer]

No not a long time Clones fan. never one. Didnt mean by make or break Fran was gone. Only meant that this becomes a key year if he is to get over the hump recruiting the kinds of players he needs to have for style of play. Which by the way I like. Im sorry but I dont think the 2 kids he recruited this year gets us there. Hopefull a great year will enable him to get to the next level of athlete. If not we will obviously not get there as a program.

I appologize if you think I was attempting to flame. I have been a longtime Iowa fan but I have always tried to stay somewhat objective. Anyone would be hard pressed to say that for the first part of their tenure Hoiberg hasn't out recruited Fran. We shall see what happens in the next 2 or 3 years. Hopefully will go our way but again I think the success this year will go a long ways in determining

 

[clicheusername3]

When Hoiberg was hired I thought it was a curious hire and probably not a good one. Wrong. He may be on the verge of creating a very good program at Iowa state. And I have to admit he is a class act. When Fran was hired I thought it might be OK. I think the jury is out on Fran. Clearly a better choice than Lick but has yet to recruit the athletic types that can make his style of play work. This year may be make or break.

I have to admit my evaluations of hires hasnt been the best. I thought Alford was a great hire. NOT! I thought Ferentz was a strange choice and no matter what happens down the road he has done some good things at a tough place to succeed.

If Fran doesnt get over the hump in recruiting and Ferentz doesnt make a comeback next year I may get a chance to evaluate new coaches but also a new athletic Director.

Coming in 2nd in the National tournament last year will tide me over for another 2 years at least.

 

[WindsorHawk]

No not a long time Clones fan. never one. Didnt mean by make or break Fran was gone. Only meant that this becomes a key year if he is to get over the hump recruiting the kinds of players he needs to have for style of play. Which by the way I like. Im sorry but I dont think the 2 kids he recruited this year gets us there. Hopefull a great year will enable him to get to the next level of athlete. If not we will obviously not get there as a program.

I appologize if you think I was attempting to flame. I have been a longtime Iowa fan but I have always tried to stay somewhat objective. Anyone would be hard pressed to say that for the first part of their tenure Hoiberg hasn't out recruited Fran. We shall see what happens in the next 2 or 3 years. Hopefully will go our way but again I think the success this year will go a long ways in determining

Fair enough.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I actually like Hoiberg...always have. I can't say the same for their fans. Comparing Fran and Hoiberg or Iowa and ISU basketball is like comparing apples and oranges IMO. Iowa State is really a glorified JUCO program...as it relates to basketball. I'm not suggesting their academics are JUCO just their approach to basketball.

Iowa State takes the 1 year guys and 2 year guys. They just keep turning them over every year or 2. The roster is constantly changing. There is talent each year but not many guys spend 3 or 4 years together in that program. If that's their approach so be it. It's working pretty well but it does have a JUCO feel to it.

Fran will take a transfer here and there. It may be to fill an immediate need like Cartwright. It may be a transfer like Uthoff...recruited him out of high school. However, Fran prefers 4 year guys. He will RS a player that needs more time to develop. See Meyer. This approach also seems to be working pretty well. I think most agree that Iowa's basketball team has improved and the program has taken steps forward each year since Fran arrived. This approach takes longer and requires more patience.

I prefer Fran's approach myself. I like having guys around 4 years...seeing them develop and improve. I'm ultimately sad to see them go because they were around awhile and became part of the Hawkeye family...rather than using us as a 1 year stepping stone in hopes of making it into the NBA.

I have no problem with Hoiberg or his approach...probably the right one for that fan base. I personally prefer Fran's approach to program development.

 

[clicheusername3]

I actually like Hoiberg...always have. I can't say the same for their fans. Comparing Fran and Hoiberg or Iowa and ISU basketball is like comparing apples and oranges IMO. Iowa State is really a glorified JUCO program...as it relates to basketball. I'm not suggesting their academics are JUCO just their approach to basketball.

Iowa State takes the 1 year guys and 2 year guys. They just keep turning them over every year or 2. The roster is constantly changing. There is talent each year but not many guys spend 3 or 4 years together in that program. If that's their approach so be it. It's working pretty well but it does have a JUCO feel to it.

Fran will take a transfer here and there. It may be to fill an immediate need like Cartwright. It may be a transfer like Uthoff...recruited him out of high school. However, Fran prefers 4 year guys. He will RS a player that needs more time to develop. See Meyer. This approach also seems to be working pretty well. I think most agree that Iowa's basketball team has improved and the program has taken steps forward each year since Fran arrived. This approach takes longer and requires more patience.

I prefer Fran's approach myself. I like having guys around 4 years...seeing them develop and improve. I'm ultimately sad to see them go because they were around awhile and became part of the Hawkeye family...rather than using us as a 1 year stepping stone in hopes of making it into the NBA.

I have no problem with Hoiberg or his approach...probably the right one for that fan base. I personally prefer Fran's approach to program development.

Or 7 years if you're Jess Settles, I really enjoyed watching him go all the way from a high-schooler to retirement age all while in an Iowa uniform.

 

[bogeyman]

He may not be that person yet but I think Jok could turn into that star player. I have been harsh on him so far as I think he has been forcing a bunch of shots, but he has done some great things as well.

Fred hasn't really recruited a star player either who wasn't a transfer. Niang was comparable to White or Basabe his freshman year. If Naz Long can keep playing the way he started the season he could be Freddy's first star player that he recruited out of high school. If he doesn't, it looks like Rashad Vaughn could easily be the first true star.

Agree, Jok could be that kind a player. Would be awesome to add a stud PG along with him for a couple years.

 

[ibahawkeye]

The Hoiberg hire made complete sense on basically every level except for head coaching experience. He is Ames' favorite son, star player at ISU, played in the NBA and was a connection to Johnny Orr. It might not have worked but the rationale was clearly there when they made the hire and he definitely was a hit amongst ISU fans as soon as he accepted.

I think we all get that it made sense on a lot of levels BUT not having any head coaching is a pretty big factor. It would be pretty easy to see how an AD would be hesitant to offer a head gig at a major university to a guy who had 0 head coaching experience. Props to Pollard as it has worked out but had it not it would have been pretty easy to hold Pollard to the fire asking why in the world he would hire a guy with no HC experience. There was a lot of risk with that hire. With risk comes reward and Cyclone fans are reaping that now.

As for Fran... this is the year. All the progress he has made will be for none if they don't mak the tourney this year. I have no doubts so I'm not concerned but in my mind the rebuild will be complete once we are dancing. From there "we are back" and he is no longer rebuilding but capitalizing on the momentum of the program to see how high he can take us.

 

[fsanford]

Both guys had lots of crap to clean up, maybe the 3 or 4 players Fred had when he took over were better than the 3 or 4 that Fran had, but both pretty much started at the bottom

Fred's approach has been different no doubt. But he also understands, that there like 300 kids that transfer every year. He seems to treat it like the NBA, you draft kids (high school recruits) and you sign free agents (transfers). Traditionalist's come out an criticize it because its never done to that level and it will surely fail. And I guess it still could, but the very best programs in the country tend to have kids who don't play all 4 years anyway.

It takes most high school kids (not talking the top 50 kids here) 2 years to contribute significant numbers in terms of scoring, etc. (there are always exceptions) but for the most part you get your peak performance from Jr's and SR's. (Look at at guy like Ejim, he was okay his first 2 years, and then blew up as JR) If you are looking to bring in a transfer you already have a pretty good idea the kid is going to be successful based on his first couple of years, there is not a lot of risk. You reap the peak years of their performance.

Again not everyone's cup of tea, and the tried and true way of having kids play a system for 4 years is still the standard.


Maybe I am wrong, but seems to me both coaches have pulled top 150 kids out of high school, Woodbury, Gesell, Ogelsby were top 150 kids, Jok would have been if not for the knee.. I think Woodbury was top 50. Thomas, Niang, Morris, Dorsey-Walker were top 150 kids.
Fran was a last minute Kentucky offer away from pulling a top point guard. ISU is sitting great with Vaughn, but UNC and Kansas are out there lurking. They did get a top 100 kid in Custer.

The talent level is much higher than when both guys took over so they must be doing something right.

Hopefully both stay a long time.

 

[Cydkar]

I actually like Hoiberg...always have. I can't say the same for their fans. Comparing Fran and Hoiberg or Iowa and ISU basketball is like comparing apples and oranges IMO. Iowa State is really a glorified JUCO program...as it relates to basketball. I'm not suggesting their academics are JUCO just their approach to basketball.

Iowa State takes the 1 year guys and 2 year guys. They just keep turning them over every year or 2. The roster is constantly changing. There is talent each year but not many guys spend 3 or 4 years together in that program. If that's their approach so be it. It's working pretty well but it does have a JUCO feel to it.

Fran will take a transfer here and there. It may be to fill an immediate need like Cartwright. It may be a transfer like Uthoff...recruited him out of high school. However, Fran prefers 4 year guys. He will RS a player that needs more time to develop. See Meyer. This approach also seems to be working pretty well. I think most agree that Iowa's basketball team has improved and the program has taken steps forward each year since Fran arrived. This approach takes longer and requires more patience.

I prefer Fran's approach myself. I like having guys around 4 years...seeing them develop and improve. I'm ultimately sad to see them go because they were around awhile and became part of the Hawkeye family...rather than using us as a 1 year stepping stone in hopes of making it into the NBA.

I have no problem with Hoiberg or his approach...probably the right one for that fan base. I personally prefer Fran's approach to program development.

It has an NCAA tournament feel to me. Seriously, there is only a juco feel if you are on the outside. I don't consider any ISU players different than the others based on how they got to ISU. Right now I have a man-crush on Hogue...don't care where he was last year.

 

[Casey388]

haha....oh this is serious? yikes.

So who is this star that that Hoiberg has recruited out of high school? Melvin Ejim? Who committed before Fred was hired. Maybe Niang? Who had a pretty the same freshman stat line as Aaron White. Naz is having a great start to the year but I highly doubt he keeps shooting 65% from three on the year. Every star that Fred has brought in has been a transfer, with younger support guys around them. Two years ago it was Allen, Christopherson and White, all three were transfers. Last year was Lucious, McGee, Clyburn, Niang and Ejim. Niang was the only one that was Freddy's guy.

As I said in my previous post that you laughed at, Naz could turn into that star but I don't see it happening. Fred has a good chance with Rashad who could become a Big XII 1st Team player as a freshman. That is a star. Neither Fred or Fran has got that type of player yet. If you think Fred has already done it, then you are kidding yourself.

 

[deanvogs]

It has an NCAA tournament feel to me. Seriously, there is only a juco feel if you are on the outside. I don't consider any ISU players different than the others based on how they got to ISU. Right now I have a man-crush on Hogue...don't care where he was last year.

I get it, I wouldn't care if Fran brought in JUCO's if they produced. It is funny going to CF when some player transfers out of a school.....the fan base all tries to figure out who Fred will force out to get the next big transfer.

 

[mj4cy]

Look at the long athletic guys Fran has recruited - White, Woody, Gabe, Mel, Uthoff...throw Marble in because he had to "re-recruit" him. OP is wrong, these long armed players able to get up and down the court are exactly what we need to play his style. They create havoc for opponents (see Uthoff's 7'1 wingspan!). The only thing he hasn't been able to recruit yet is a stud player. But overall has increased the athleticism on this roster by leaps and bounds over where it was. My hope is we'll get that special player after a good year this year.

Hmm....athletic isn't the first word I'd use to describe Woodbury.

 

[mj4cy]

He may not be that person yet but I think Jok could turn into that star player. I have been harsh on him so far as I think he has been forcing a bunch of shots, but he has done some great things as well.

Fred hasn't really recruited a star player either who wasn't a transfer. Niang was comparable to White or Basabe his freshman year. If Naz Long can keep playing the way he started the season he could be Freddy's first star player that he recruited out of high school. If he doesn't, it looks like Rashad Vaughn could easily be the first true star.

He's already inked 4-4 star players and has a good chance for a 5 star.

 

[clicheusername3]

What really sticks out to me in this battle of coaches is that you have Fran on one side doing things the right way, and then you have Fred on the other side doing everything the completely wrong way. The contrast is stark.

 

[hawkfan33]

What really sticks out to me in this battle of coaches is that you have Fran on one side doing things the right way, and then you have Fred on the other side doing everything the completely wrong way. The contrast is stark.

Somewhere Kerwin Okoro nods his head in agreement.

 

[MeatMan]

i love ISU threads and ISU trolls.

Keep Bryce and Doublewide, and make the rest fight to the death for the last spot on HN.