Fran vs Hoiberg

[BryceC]

I believe this statement is wrong. Yes .. Fran's situation was horrible, but Fred's was simply bad, at worst. Fred had much more talent to work with than Fran did.

Having said that, both went separate routes to rebuild. Fred took the shorter (transfers) route while Fran chose to build from the freshmen route.

I think both are poised for a long run of good basketball over the next 5 years or so.

Just my 2¢ .. ..

GO HAWKS!!!

Fred had 3 scholarship players on the roster. How that is not considered horrible is beyond me.

Edit: and I couldn't care less where guys come from or how it "feels". Hogue and Kane are a ball to watch play. If some people don't like their path to Iowa State then that is their problem.

 

[CWooD4]

Somewhere Kerwin Okoro nods his head in agreement.

Still beating that drum? When you are completely wrong on it, and have been proven wrong every time.

 

[CWooD4]

So who is this star that that Hoiberg has recruited out of high school? Melvin Ejim? Who committed before Fred was hired. Maybe Niang? Who had a pretty the same freshman stat line as Aaron White. Naz is having a great start to the year but I highly doubt he keeps shooting 65% from three on the year. Every star that Fred has brought in has been a transfer, with younger support guys around them. Two years ago it was Allen, Christopherson and White, all three were transfers. Last year was Lucious, McGee, Clyburn, Niang and Ejim. Niang was the only one that was Freddy's guy.

As I said in my previous post that you laughed at, Naz could turn into that star but I don't see it happening. Fred has a good chance with Rashad who could become a Big XII 1st Team player as a freshman. That is a star. Neither Fred or Fran has got that type of player yet. If you think Fred has already done it, then you are kidding yourself.

Christopherson wasn't a Fred transfer.

Overlook that fact that Fred has recruited besides Niang/Long, he has gotten SDW, Thomas, Morris, and Custer. And has a fantastic chance with Rashad Vaughn. Currently looking at 2015 Illikainen, and 2014 Cunningham.... So please drop the it's only transfers act.

I really think Okoro could have been a good one, but I understand his reasoning to move closer to home after losing his brother and father in such a short time span.

 

[deanvogs]

Still beating that drum? When you are completely wrong on it, and have been proven wrong every time.

I'm not sure why ISU fan gets upset at this. Go read some of the Vaughn/Cunningham threads. ISU fan ins't worried about over signing, as this is big time college BB. Everyone over signs, no biggie, Fred and and should as well. Plus Fred has proven without a doubt he will over sign, and push kids out (Amardi).

 

[CWooD4]

I'm not sure why ISU fan gets upset at this. Go read some of the Vaughn/Cunningham threads. ISU fan ins't worried about over signing, as this is big time college BB. Everyone over signs, no biggie, Fred and and should as well. Plus Fred has proven without a doubt he will over sign, and push kids out (Amardi).

Still waiting on proof that Okoro was forced out. I'll give you Amardi, but Okoro is anything but a force out. Christ, he even has said he wanted to be closer to home since you know, both his father and brother died.

And in the end it worked out for Amardi, as he is playing with a solid Oregon team.

At least I won't go as far as saying Ingram was a force out by Fran.

 

[deanvogs]

Still waiting on proof that Okoro was forced out. I'll give you Amardi, but Okoro is anything but a force out. Christ, he even has said he wanted to be closer to home since you know, both his father and brother died.

And in the end it worked out for Amardi, as he is playing with a solid Oregon team.

At least I won't go as far as saying Ingram was a force out by Fran.

Nobody really knows if Okoro was forced out....all we know is later the same year Fred did force out another player. You decide...

 

[CWooD4]

Nobody really knows if Okoro was forced out....all we know is later the same year Fred did force out another player. You decide...

Then don't bring up his name trying to prove a force out point if he wasn't like hawkfan33 did. That is my point.

I feel bad for Ingram, can't believe Fran would force him out like that. That's not the right way.

 

[deanvogs]

Then don't bring up his name trying to prove a force out point if he wasn't like hawkfan33 did. That is my point.

I feel bad for Ingram, can't believe Fran would force him out like that. That's not the right way.

I'm f****** with you, I guess it must be working.

 

[hawkfan33]

Still waiting on proof that Okoro was forced out. I'll give you Amardi, but Okoro is anything but a force out. Christ, he even has said he wanted to be closer to home since you know, both his father and brother died.

And in the end it worked out for Amardi, as he is playing with a solid Oregon team.

At least I won't go as far as saying Ingram was a force out by Fran.

Why in the world would you? His scholarship was filled by a walk on just so it didn't go to waste. Okoro's was filled by a transfer before he even knew he was leaving ISU. I don't have a problem with how Fred pulls scholarships, plenty of schools do it, it just cracks me up how defensive Clone fans get about it. If you're going to play it the "right way/wrong way" ********, at least embrace it.

 

[hawkfan33]

Nobody really knows if Okoro was forced out....all we know is later the same year Fred did force out another player. You decide...

Fred has forced out players every year, Railey, Sledge, Okoro, Amardi, I'm probably forgetting some and I'm sure there will be more next year. It's working though, so good for Fred.

 

[mj4cy]

What really sticks out to me in this battle of coaches is that you have Fran on one side doing things the right way, and then you have Fred on the other side doing everything the completely wrong way. The contrast is stark.

Wow....just wow. So tell me. What is wrong with taking a dormant program...finding the best talent available....doing extensive background checks on players with "baggage", giving players a second chance, helping them succeed on and off the court, and oh by the way, making the NCAA tournament twice? And in between all of this, bringing multiple 4 star recruits to the team.....

 

[deanvogs]

Why in the world would you? His scholarship was filled by a walk on just so it didn't go to waste. Okoro's was filled by a transfer before he even knew he was leaving ISU. I don't have a problem with how Fred pulls scholarships, plenty of schools do it, it just cracks me up how defensive Clone fans get about it. If you're going to play it the "right way/wrong way" ********, at least embrace it.

Fred has forced out players every year, Railey, Sledge, Okoro, Amardi, I'm probably forgetting some and I'm sure there will be more next year. It's working though, so good for Fred.

Well after seeing this new evidence, maybe I'll reconsider my opinion on Okoro. You make a compelling argument 33. Ingram ins't comparable, Fran didn't sign anyone......Fred on the other hand, has always had to "have players leave" to get back to the 13 scholarship number after all his transfers are inked.....

 

[BryceC]

I still think there was more to the Amardi thing, because if they were forcing out anybody I don't know why it wouldn't be Edozie, nothing against the big fella.

As for that deal too, everybody thought it would hurt the Indian hills connection but then they got McKay a few months later. If it doesn't hurt in recruiting not much of a disincentive.

 

[clicheusername3]

Well after seeing this new evidence, maybe I'll reconsider my opinion on Okoro. You make a compelling argument 33. Ingram ins't comparable, Fran didn't sign anyone......Fred on the other hand, has always had to "have players leave" to get back to the 13 scholarship number after all his transfers are inked.....

Except McKay.

 

[hawkfan33]

Wow....just wow. So tell me. What is wrong with taking a dormant program...finding the best talent available....doing extensive background checks on players with "baggage", giving players a second chance, helping them succeed on and off the court, and oh by the way, making the NCAA tournament twice? And in between all of this, bringing multiple 4 star recruits to the team.....

C.unt - your trolling is now getting other Clone trolls! Not sure if this means you're getting better or worse at it.

 

[bcl20]

Trolling Clone trolls is always a good thing.

 

[WindsorHawk]

doing extensive background checks on players with "baggage"

LOL

 

[Tmoney12]

So after reading the this thread the only thing I gathered is the op doesn't think were back?

 

[Cyhawk7]

I actually like Hoiberg...always have. I can't say the same for their fans. Comparing Fran and Hoiberg or Iowa and ISU basketball is like comparing apples and oranges IMO. Iowa State is really a glorified JUCO program...as it relates to basketball. I'm not suggesting their academics are JUCO just their approach to basketball.

Iowa State takes the 1 year guys and 2 year guys. They just keep turning them over every year or 2. The roster is constantly changing. There is talent each year but not many guys spend 3 or 4 years together in that program. If that's their approach so be it. It's working pretty well but it does have a JUCO feel to it.

Fran will take a transfer here and there. It may be to fill an immediate need like Cartwright. It may be a transfer like Uthoff...recruited him out of high school. However, Fran prefers 4 year guys. He will RS a player that needs more time to develop. See Meyer. This approach also seems to be working pretty well. I think most agree that Iowa's basketball team has improved and the program has taken steps forward each year since Fran arrived. This approach takes longer and requires more patience.

I prefer Fran's approach myself. I like having guys around 4 years...seeing them develop and improve. I'm ultimately sad to see them go because they were around awhile and became part of the Hawkeye family...rather than using us as a 1 year stepping stone in hopes of making it into the NBA.

I have no problem with Hoiberg or his approach...probably the right one for that fan base. I personally prefer Fran's approach to program development.

Ever heard of Naz Long, Ejim, Niang, Thomas, Morris or Custer? He's also in very good position to land the #1/2 SG in next years class. I can understand saying this a couple years ago or last year but I think it's pretty clear Hoiberg is focusing more on highschool recruits now that he has gained some real momentum with the program. It's amazing how blind Iowa fans are in terms of what how hoiberg recruits.

 

[bcl20]

Or they just make fun of you because Cyclone fans are dumb.