Former verbal committments to Iowa

HomerChampless said:
Why? 'cause KF forces Iowa players to play as a highly-structured team. Hardly anyone is allowed to show their athletic talent. Which is why KF is good at taking low-level star players and turning them into a good team using his system, but because of KF's highly-structured team concept, lots of high-star players bolt 'cause they usually aren't allowed to show their talent. Iowa bleeds talent to mold players into KF's style of highly-structured team. If you can live with KF's style of coaching, you'd better not care about getting the high-star recruits... 'cause you usually won't get them.
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I get the gist of what you are saying, but I don't think KF doesn't allow players to showcase their talent unless you mean flamboyancy, like the way DJK was handcuffed from the media. He certainly doesn't allow showboating.

Who are the high star players that bolted that weren't allowed to showcase their talent?
 
HomerChampless said:
Dave....I've given you a quick, easy, and concise explanation of why Iowa has systemic problems in recruiting, and why Iowa, under KF, uses lower level recruits and is successful doing so (but not when using higher level recruits). I'm here to explain away your trepidations.... I don't demand you post things in a way acceptable to me. Why do you think you have that right?
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I am not DEMANDING you do anything. Clearly we disagree, but if I don't like what you post, I willl respond. If you feel you have adequately responded, then don't respond again, move on. Message board are about back and forth.

Back to what we were actually discussing. You seem to have trepidations not me, relating to the program's lack of success with keeping high level commits and roster players. I provided a response as to why I don't agree with you. As for the attrition in the past, those issues seem to be resolved as the high number of transfers as slowed down over the past few years.

Now about the decommits, you're point makes no sense unless a kid says "I am not going to Iowa because their coaches' system will not allow me to showcase my talents". If that were what they actually said, then I would agree with you but they didn't.

High level kids want to go someone and win, plain and simple, e.i. Ross P. As for some of the other kids that were actually committed or played at Iowa and subsequently transferred, they had their own personal reasons for decommitting or transferring, I listed them. You didn't respond to any of those at all, clearly you have no idea what the heck you're talking about or otherwise you would have.
 
HawkinGoferLand said:
I get the gist of what you are saying, but I don't think KF doesn't allow players to showcase their talent unless you mean flamboyancy, like the way DJK was handcuffed from the media. He certainly doesn't allow showboating.

Who are the high star players that bolted that weren't allowed to showcase their talent?
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It'll come to you.
 
khock said:
2011 - Melvin Gordon - 4 star (Wisconsin)
2012 - Alex Kozan - 4 star (Auburn)
2013 - Delano Hill - 4 star (Michigan)
2014 - Ross Pierschbacher - 4 star (Alabama)

I love the Hawks, I'm an alum of Iowa and I definitely take a positive approach to each year but this is not a good trend ... combined with last years 4-8 season. Ouch.
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Dave, here's the OP's post in this thread. khock mentions Iowa's difficulty in recruiting 4 star recruits that were in its grasp AND last year's 4-8 season. Two concerns, here... Now, I think your attempting to force all entries (by the way, you ain't a moderator) to only address Iowa's inability to get the high star recruits is the hijack.... I'm showing how KF is successful using low-level recruits, why he's unsuccessful using high-level recruits, and why he's unable to recruit (and when he does recruit can't keep, or satisfy) high-level recruits. IMO, one of the main reasons why Iowa had a lousy season last year, was because Iowa's talent level was low, proving that level of recruit or athletic ability always equates into the success of a team, even Iowa football.
 
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HomerChampless said:
Dave, here's the OP's post in this thread. khock mentions Iowa's difficulty in recruiting 4 star recruits that were in its grasp AND last year's 4-8 season. Two concerns, here... Now, I think your attempting to force all entries (by the way, you ain't a moderator) to only address Iowa's inability to get the high star recruits is the hijack.... I'm showing how KF is successful using low-level recruits, why he's unsuccessful using high-level recruits, and why he's unable to recruit (and when he does recruit can't keep, or satisfy) high-level recruits. IMO, one of the main reasons why Iowa had a lousy season last year, was because Iowa's talent level was low, proving that level of recruit or athletic ability always equates into the success of a team, even Iowa football.
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Melvin Gordon, his family and friends bombarded him with pressure everyday since he pledged to Iowa to which to his home school of Wisconsin. He caved to the pressure of everyone who cared about telling him it was a mistake to go to Iowa over Wisconsin. How is that Iowa's fault and how would they convince him to keep his verbal committment to Iowa with all that going on?

Alex Kozan, he never actually committed, Jon disspelled that urban legend pages ago. He like Ross P. wanted to go to Alabama at that time they had must won one or two NC's? Yes, Iowa can compete with that.

Delano Hill, he said prior to committing to Iowa that Michigan was his dream school and that he wanted to go there but that Michigan told him that they currently didn't have room. Something happened and they had room and offered him. How is Iowa going to compete with that?

Ross P., again he went to Alabama who won 3 out of 4 of the last NC's. How is Iowa going to convince a kid who wants to play for a NC contender?

David Kenney, 4 star who decommitted to Indiana, where his dad was hired for an assistant recruiter job. Again how is that Iowa's fault that he decommitted to be closer to his dad?

I know I am not a moderator, can you stay on topic? Seriously who do you think you are? We are having a conversation and if you're taking offense to how I post, then stop responding. What are you 5 years old? He's mean, so I am going to tell my daddy. When you're going use words like trepidations, please at least know what they mean. In any of my posts did I show any signs of "worrying" about the team's ability to get and keep high level players, um no I didn't, but you did.

I disagree with you, Iowa's talent level last year wasn't low it was players with experience that was low, but definitely not talent level. Their talent level was not any lower then most decent years where they win at least 7 game in a season.

We have a difference of opinion, if you're are not adult enough to discuss opinions without taking offense, maybe message boards aren't your thing.
 
This whole thread regarding losing big time commits or actual Iowa players reminds me of the Lickliter basketball era during which he continuously lost his best players year after year. Nothing good can come from it.
 
HomerChampless said:
Why? 'cause KF forces Iowa players to play as a highly-structured team. Hardly anyone is allowed to show their athletic talent. Which is why KF is good at taking low-level star players and turning them into a good team using his system, but because of KF's highly-structured team concept, lots of high-star players bolt 'cause they usually aren't allowed to show their talent. Iowa bleeds talent to mold players into KF's style of highly-structured team. If you can live with KF's style of coaching, you'd better not care about getting (or keeping) the high-star recruits... 'cause you usually won't.
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Your statement doesn't really stand up under any kind of scrutiny. Iowa gets plenty of good players in the defensive secondary, at the LB position, and on the DL. They also get plenty of good OL player, and recruit RB's and TE's well. At the QB position we have gotten some good players over the last decade, and even developed one that was better than the highly rated on.

The only position that you actually have any kid of point with at all is the WR position. Iowa has not recruited the WR position well over the last 10 years.
 
dave3912 said:
...

I know I am not a moderator, can you stay on topic? Seriously who do you think you are? We are having a conversation and if you're taking offense to how I post, then stop responding. What are you 5 years old? He's mean, so I am going to tell my daddy. When you're going use words like trepidations, please at least know what they mean. In any of my posts did I show any signs of "worrying" about the team's ability to get and keep high level players, um no I didn't, but you did...
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Nah, you don't think you're a moderator... not. And if I remember correctly, and I do, YOU were the one telling me to stay on topic... your decreed topic... not the OP's topic...
 
deanvogs said:
Your statement doesn't really stand up under any kind of scrutiny. Iowa gets plenty of good players in the defensive secondary, at the LB position, and on the DL. They also get plenty of good OL player, and recruit RB's and TE's well. At the QB position we have gotten some good players over the last decade, and even developed one that was better than the highly rated on.

The only position that you actually have any kid of point with at all is the WR position. Iowa has not recruited the WR position well over the last 10 years.
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Name one Hawkeye DB that made it in the NFL other than Sanders, who, IMO, used his body more than his Hawkeye skill....
 
HomerChampless said:
Nah, you don't think you're a moderator... not. And if I remember correctly, and I do, YOU were the one telling me to stay on topic... your decreed topic... not the OP's topic...
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If you can't handle the heat get off the porch Champ. Dave is owning you and Dean just summed up quite well why your point makes no sense. Why no response?

Recruiting the WR position has been a struggle under Ferentz. Most would argue that's because of the system, but if you want to argue it's because Ferentz doesn't allow stars to be stars then so be it. The point still stands that the WR position is the only area where your argument holds any water, and even there I think there's a few holes.

If I were you I'd focus the argument on the fact star recruits today want to receive preferential treatment. They want their egos to be massaged. They want their position handed to them (Wegher). Kirk treats every single player equally, and he expects them to earn their spot through one thing and one thing only: hard work. That's a difficult battle to have with a star recruit when they can get preferential treatment elsewhere. Not gonna happen in Iowa City.
 
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HomerChampless said:
Name one Hawkeye DB that made it in the NFL other than Sanders, who, IMO, used his body more than his Hawkeye skill....
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Spievey, Prater, Hyde, Sash, Considine, Paschal off the top of my head. Behind OL, the secondary is where Iowa puts the most players into the NFL.

Are you even a fan, how can you NOT know this?
 
QUOTE=deanvogs;1152072]Your statement doesn't really stand up under any kind of scrutiny. Iowa gets plenty of good players in the defensive secondary, at the LB position, and on the DL. They also get plenty of good OL player, and recruit RB's and TE's well. At the QB position we have gotten some good players over the last decade, and even developed one that was better than the highly rated on.

The only position that you actually have any kid of point with at all is the WR position. Iowa has not recruited the WR position well over the last 10 years.[/QUOTE] Name one Hawkeye DB that made it in the NFL other than Sanders, who, IMO, used his head hunting ability more than his Hawkeye skills....At LB, a pittance. A few at OL and a few at TE. Most Hawkeyes who made it into the NFL were recruits with low level stars and had to be developed. In fact, name the low level recruits that made it into the NFL, then name the high level recruits that made it into the NFL. There's quite a disparity.... And we're really getting off topic...
 
deanvogs said:
Spievey, Prater, Hyde, Sash, Considine, Paschal off the top of my head. Behind OL, the secondary is where Iowa puts the most players into the NFL.

Are you even a fan, how can you NOT know this?
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Easy to post when you turn the point into your own favor.. Earlier, I asked anyone to name the Hawkeye DBs that made it in the NFL. Not just drafted, not hamburger squad, and not special teams, but still playing after a few years 'cause of DB skill... Other than Sanders, none. I think this is really getting into the area of a hijacked thread..
 
HomerChampless said:
Easy to post when you turn the point into your own favor.. Earlier, I asked anyone to name the Hawkeye DBs that made it in the NFL. Not just drafted, not hamburger squad, and not special teams, but still playing after a few years 'cause of DB skill... I think this is really getting into the area of a hijacked thread.. Other than Sanders, none.
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Not many players that make the nfl stay for years and years. The average is probably about 5-6 years. If guys are getting to the NFL then they obviously are recruiting those positions well. You're standard wouldn't leave many schools recruiting the position well. Just because you think you are right doesn't mean your position isn't stupid
 
[
David79 said:
Not many players that make the nfl stay for years and years. The average is probably about 5-6 years. ...Just because you think you are right doesn't mean your position isn't stupid
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I'd be happy with one Hawkeye DB in an NFL backfield being relevant for 3 years.... Is that stupid? Why is it, IMO, important for some Hawkeye DBs to be relevant in an NFL backfield for 3 years? So high star high school recruits will want to play DB for Iowa....
 
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deanvogs said:
Spievey, Prater, Hyde, Sash, Considine, Paschal off the top of my head. Behind OL, the secondary is where Iowa puts the most players into the NFL.

Are you even a fan, how can you NOT know this?
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Prepare for a long response....

Well played Dean....

oh...I was too late....response already given.
 
HomerChampless said:
Easy to post when you turn the point into your own favor.. Earlier, I asked anyone to name the Hawkeye DBs that made it in the NFL. Not just drafted, not hamburger squad, and not special teams, but still playing after a few years 'cause of DB skill... Other than Sanders, none. I think this is really getting into the area of a hijacked thread..
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Yep, we don't have any other multiple year All Pro, Defensive Player of the Year..."types". obvious failing of the coaching staff. Spot on.
 
Walker, I like (not really) how you have the propensity to stretch arguments into straw man arguments... Just when was I asking for an, as you say:
HawkeyeWalker said:
Yep, we don't have any other multiple year All Pro, Defensive Player of the Year..."types"? Obvious failing of the coaching staff. Spot on.
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Other than Charles Woodson, how many dbacks does Michigan have in the NFL that would meet this criteria? Does any Big Ten team have more than one with the exception of Ohio State and possibly Wisconsin (Leonhard and Cromartie?).
 
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