InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
in all of that you listed 1 school - we get it, Iowa hasn't been as good as Wisconsin. No one can beat that argument but again, don't act like there are a bunch of schools who are.
Embarassing. This is freaking Illinois.
- Thread starter HaydenHawk56
- Start date
in all of that you listed 1 school - we get it, Iowa hasn't been as good as Wisconsin. No one can beat that argument but again, don't act like there are a bunch of schools who are.
Fryowa
Administrator
Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State until last year are all Big Ten schools at the same level of performance as WI or better each year. That should go without saying. The reason I brought up Wisconsin is because they are in our Division (which you have to admit you emphasize yourself), and they have similar resources.
It was to illustrate that the main difference is that their program is run from top to bottom to win and they get results. Ours is run to be a couple games over .500 at the end of the year historically.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
So, you're saying Iowa is in the top half of the B1G - we're saying the same thing.
Fryowa
Administrator
7th place is in the top half of the B1G---just like 1st or 2nd place is in the top half.
Not the same thing.
Fryowa
Administrator
We're 90% on the same page. I'm not on the ledge and I wish it would be better but I don't get mental about it. It's not going to change.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
what are the 6 programs ahead of Iowa over the last 2 decades? I can legit only think of 2...maybe an argument for 3 who have more top 10 finishes or BCS bowl bids.
Fryowa
Administrator
Chill the f*ck out man, I'm the one actually doing the work here...
See below. This is the Big Ten (minus Rutgers and Maryland because...well...because) for the last 20 complete years. I'm not going to include bowl bids because that's 3rd grade obvious. The Foster Farms Bowl < > the Orange Bowl. Nebraska's record is only Big Ten, but their AP rankings are the last 20 complete years.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Chill the f*ck out man, I'm the one actually doing the work here...
See below. This is the Big Ten (minus Rutgers and Maryland because...well...because) for the last 20 complete years. I'm not going to include bowl bids because that's 3rd grade obvious. The Foster Farms Bowl < > the Orange Bowl. Nebraska's record is only Big Ten, but their AP rankings are the last 20 complete years.
Nice work - Iowa tied for 2nd in top 10 finishes in the league for the last 20 years. That's a pretty strong program. I think your Nebraska #'s might be skewed but they were pretty good from 97-2001. Thanks for helping me prove my point and putting in the work
Fryowa
Administrator
One thing I learned a long time ago is that you can make stats say whatever you want. You can say that we're tied for 2nd in top tens and I can say we're 7th best in winning percentage and top 25s and still be correct. We could do this for days but I'm confident enough in my own mental abilities that I think it'd be a waste of time for both of us.
Where the whole intelligence thing lies is in removing bias and objectively looking at the pertinent numbers, i.e. not cherry picking.
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InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Right, I only care about where they finish, who they beat etc. You won't convince me - I won't convince you - etc. Iowa is an above average program IMO but I want it to be more too. I see you're #'s and think - wow, Iowa is really good. You see it and think, Iowa somehow isn't.
Fryowa
Administrator
But we can agree on what we talked about earlier, and that is that Iowa is historically, on average, a 6-6, or occasionally a 7-5 team. By default we can see that statistically those types of teams don't win conferences, which we haven't.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Maybe Iowa historically has been that but not under Ferentz.
KF has only failed to win 6 or more games 3 times in 18 seasons, 2 of those were his first which Fry left the program in shambles. They still count though and I don't want you thinking that i am cherry pickin.
He's won 7 or above in 13 of his 18 seasons. So, if you think Iowa is historically a 6 or 7 win program, why do you have such a hard on for the guy that's consistently coaching above it?
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
BTW - I will concede to you Fry - cause you're exhausting and I am bored with the topic. You win. I'll shut up. I can't say any more and really, I don't like to go back and fourth with ya THIS much. We have different opinions on Iowa Football. Which is good. A lot of people don't see eye to eye on things that seem black and white. We both want it to be better though and we're both Hawkeye fans. Good debate. I do honestly see your side of things and I am disappointed with 6 and 7 win seasons just like you. I also think the program is very envious to a lot of others.
Joshbrown
Well-Known Member
IGC
This is what some Hawk fans see as of now.
Under Hayden Fry Iowa was elevated from worst to being better than every team except Michigan/O$U/PedState
Now Iowa is behind those 3 programs plus Wisconsin and MSU (despite last years results) and some would argue Nebraska. With JHF Iowa was seen as being near the top of the pack. In fact he once famously said that in the 1980s. With KF Iowa is closer to middle of the pack despite the fact that his compensation package says he is a top of the pack coach.
He's also not morally superior. He started his coaching tenure with a scandal (offensive playbook) and as recently as last summer made himself look bad by being on the wrong side of a jury verdict. To his credit the scandals have tapered off, but he's had plenty of them in his time as head coach. More than I remember Hayden having. If he and Barta retired in the next 12 months that would allow Iowa to re-establish itself as the school weaker programs want to be like. As of now Wisky occupies that position.
This is what some Hawk fans see as of now.
Under Hayden Fry Iowa was elevated from worst to being better than every team except Michigan/O$U/PedState
Now Iowa is behind those 3 programs plus Wisconsin and MSU (despite last years results) and some would argue Nebraska. With JHF Iowa was seen as being near the top of the pack. In fact he once famously said that in the 1980s. With KF Iowa is closer to middle of the pack despite the fact that his compensation package says he is a top of the pack coach.
He's also not morally superior. He started his coaching tenure with a scandal (offensive playbook) and as recently as last summer made himself look bad by being on the wrong side of a jury verdict. To his credit the scandals have tapered off, but he's had plenty of them in his time as head coach. More than I remember Hayden having. If he and Barta retired in the next 12 months that would allow Iowa to re-establish itself as the school weaker programs want to be like. As of now Wisky occupies that position.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
You can make the stats say whatever you want. You started at the point that is the least favorable for Iowa. It includes Hayden's last year which was 3-8, then KF first year of 1-10 and his 2nd year which was 3-9. Lets start at 2001-2016, after KF revitalized the program and let me know what you find.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, Hayden Fry had 8 seasons of 6 or less wins out of his 20. There's no way Ferentz is gonna be even close to that # after 20. It's all in how you look at it, I guess. I've just never understood the camp that calls Ferentz a "6 win a year coach" when he's won 6 or more games in 15 out 18 seasons and 7 or more in 13 out of 18.
