Ellingson

LicThawk

LicThawk

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry for all of you who are ok with his play. I, however, am not. He is the slowest player on the court and that is saying something considering there are 7 footers playing at the same time. He picks up his dribble consistently just past half court. When he does drive a few steps he's off balance or clumsy. His vision is average at best and he misses open guys. He can not get lose balls mostly because he is too slow and often times doesn't even try. How is this our option for back up point guard? This will not work in the big ten because teams will press when he's on the court.

I don't get the love affair of playing him over Moss, or even Uhl who seems to be a capable dribbler. Ya, maybe he doesn't have a lot of turn overs, and yes he shoots well at times from behind the arc, but his defense is abysmal and he doesn't create anything. Last night was difficult to watch. His play and the officiating made me want to stab my eyes out.

Just my opinion. DEBATE.
 
LicThawk said:
I'm sorry for all of you who are ok with his play. I, however, am not. He is the slowest player on the court and that is saying something considering there are 7 footers playing at the same time. He picks up his dribble consistently just past half court. When he does drive a few steps he's off balance or clumsy. His vision is average at best and he misses open guys. He can not get lose balls mostly because he is too slow and often times doesn't even try. How is this our option for back up point guard? This will not work in the big ten because teams will press when he's on the court.

I don't get the love affair of playing him over Moss, or even Uhl who seems to be a capable dribbler. Ya, maybe he doesn't have a lot of turn overs, and yes he shoots well at times from behind the arc, but his defense is abysmal and he doesn't create anything. Last night was difficult to watch. His play and the officiating made me want to stab my eyes out.

Just my opinion. DEBATE.
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Glad to see the negative Nancys out after game 1...
 
Ellingson isn't a PG, or even close to one is the problem. It is pretty natural for players who aren't PG to pick up their dribble when under pressure. I am NOT a fan of him getting minutes at the PG position, or Moss or Dailey. None of them have played the PG spot for extended minutes vs other D1 opponents. It was by necessity tonight, so I hope Connor gets back soon, as he is a more natural PG.
 
deanvogs said:
Ellingson isn't a PG, or even close to one is the problem. It is pretty natural for players who aren't PG to pick up their dribble when under pressure. I am NOT a fan of him getting minutes at the PG position, or Moss or Dailey. None of them have played the PG spot for extended minutes vs other D1 opponents. It was by necessity tonight, so I hope Connor gets back soon, as he is a more natural PG.
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Agreed. I just think it odd that Fran doesn't seem to care about recruiting speed ball handlers. Seems to be a key component when competing for a tournament run.
 
I wouldn't really consider him the backup point guard, more of an emergency backup point guard. He's mainly going to be in the 2 position and backing up Moss. And I don't think its wise to have Moss play the full 40 minutes, so someone will have to come in for Moss and that'll be Ellingson. So not entirely sure of what your argument is of why Fran doesn't play Moss over Ellingson, when Fran actually plays Moss over Ellingson.

Dom Uhl may be a better ball handler (not what I think) but he is a liability everywhere else. No way will he play over Ellingson.

If you are only strictly talking about point guard position then Bohannon is obviously the starter and will play close to 30 minutes a game. Connor McCaffery will be subbing in and will probably play the other 10 minutes at PG, Brady will only be used for point guard during desperate time. So he's actually our third option at PG.

Not really much to debate here.
 
LicThawk said:
Agreed. I just think it odd that Fran doesn't seem to care about recruiting speed ball handlers. Seems to be a key component when competing for a tournament run.
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Fran likes his PG to get into the flow of the offense. He has tried recruiting many speed ball handlers, he just hasn't landed them.

The nice thing about Fran is he isn't a one trick pony. I think he can feature/use a PG in ways that are most beneficial to that player. Look at Jordan, I mean he has deficiencies, but Fran put him in spots that he could average 11 and 5 as a Fr. with limitation even.
 
PhantasosOneiroi said:
I wouldn't really consider him the backup point guard, more of an emergency backup point guard. He's mainly going to be in the 2 position and backing up Moss. And I don't think its wise to have Moss play the full 40 minutes, so someone will have to come in for Moss and that'll be Ellingson. So not entirely sure of what your argument is of why Fran doesn't play Moss over Ellingson, when Fran actually plays Moss over Ellingson.

Dom Uhl may be a better ball handler (not what I think) but he is a liability everywhere else. No way will he play over Ellingson.

If you are only strictly talking about point guard position then Bohannon is obviously the starter and will play close to 30 minutes a game. Connor McCaffery will be subbing in and will probably play the other 10 minutes at PG, Brady will only be used for point guard during desperate time. So he's actually our third option at PG.

Not really much to debate here.
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True, and that is why I don't mind it much. Ellingson is being forced to play PG because of an injury.
 
Ellingson only played back up PG out if need. That said, it's beyond embarrassing that a D-1 shooting guard on a BIG roster is such a poor ball handler. Forget PG. You can't pick up your dribble like he does, at the 2G and expect to have positive results.
We basically have 3 capable Guards in JBo, Moss and CMac. We simply can't afford an injury to any of them, if we want to compete in big boy basketball.
 
I thought Dailey might slide into the backup PG role with Connor out. Hopefully Connor gets back soon.

Ellingson is fine in the right role which is the back up 2.
 
LicThawk said:
Agreed. I just think it odd that Fran doesn't seem to care about recruiting speed ball handlers. Seems to be a key component when competing for a tournament run.
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I disagree with this 100%. Fran has missed on a lot of high end pg's. a true speed pg is what this offense is missing. he's making due with what he can get. I will say that Connor does appear to provide some of that and he and JBo look good in combination in the back court. True pg's are the most sought after college hoopsters and there are plenty of big dogs chasing few of them.
 
ibahawkeye said:
I thought Dailey might slide into the backup PG role with Connor out. Hopefully Connor gets back soon.

Ellingson is fine in the right role which is the back up 2.
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I think MD will wind up getting minutes at 1, 2 and 3. He's gonna become the swiss army knife of this team.
 
He's a spot shooter being forced into PG minutes because of injuries and transfers. Don't expect to see him there much longer
 
I just want to say that I've been disappointed with LicTHawks posting for quite some time. His thoughts are predictably negative and his points often rambling. I'm not sure he knows how to form a cohesive argument, instead he jumps from point to point without really establishing a basis for any of those arguments. He often tends to form an opinion from a very small subset of data or play, which we know is an uninformed way of analyzing a players ability and potential. He also has a misguided flair for the dramatic ("stab my eyes out").

I'm just not sure he has the ability to be a back up poster on this board and someone who can provide trivial nonsense as filler like some other posters who have thrived at the nonsensical post.

I just thought I'd do a parody of his Ellingson post with ridiculous negativity like his post. Ellingson has a role to play on this team...and he filled it very well for most of last year. He, unfortunately, struggled in the post season last year, but up to that time he filled a very valuable role. He brought energy on defense and a spark from three...he's also better at creating and getting the ball to people than you say. Stop calling out players.
 
How long is Connor out? Thought I read he may be back on Thursday.

I would hope we can win these next 3 no matter what and if Connor can get back for the 11/28 against VT game, that would be ideal.

Maybe even hold him out the next 3 just to allow more healing time.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
I disagree with this 100%. Fran has missed on a lot of high end pg's. a true speed pg is what this offense is missing. he's making due with what he can get. I will say that Connor does appear to provide some of that and he and JBo look good in combination in the back court. True pg's are the most sought after college hoopsters and there are plenty of big dogs chasing few of them.
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Chicago State found one.
 
Good lord, we all know Brady isn't a PG. To come on here and rip him for being forced to play out of position is ridiculous. He is what Fran recruited him for, a sharpshooter that plays decent defense, limits his turnovers, and passes well.

Here are some Ellingson stats from last season for you and I'm going with conference only so the numbers are not muddled for games vs sub par teams.

  • .523% EFG% - 5th on the team behind 1. Baer, 2. Kriener, 3. Pemsl, & 4. Bohannon. This stat takes into account that 3s are worth more than 2s for a more accurate pure shooter stat. Note that Kriener played half as many minutes as Brady and Pemsl was a force around the rim. This stats shows he was a better pure shooter than Jok and Moss. It should be noted Jok had twice as many minutes and Moss only had 21 more. If you want the more historic stat, Brady shot 45% from 3 during conference play, which led the team outside of Cook's 50% on 1-2 shooting.
  • 19.6% AST% - 3rd on the team behind 1. Bohannon and 2. Jok. This stat shows that Brady received an assist on 19.6% of the FGs made while he was on the floor. (I guess the OP was right, Brady has average at best vision (SARCASM))
  • 9.2% TOV% - Brady dominated this stat leading the team. This stat shows the number of turnovers he averaged per 100 possessions. (The OP didn't mention turnovers but I did, so figured I'd prove my point. I guess one could infer that his AST% combined with TOV% proves he's more trust worthy of having the ball in his hands than the other backup reserve PG options.) Yes, I realize he isn't the best ball handler, but we are talking backup to the backup for PG and he does not turn the ball over.
  • Lastly, just an FYI, Brady had a 4-1 AST to TO ratio last night. Moss was 1-1 and Dailey was 1-3.

If you don't believe me, here are the stats from last season. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/iowa/2017.html

I'll wait for a response.
 
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I watched the game, not sure who else on this post has, and Moss didn't seem to play much. Every team we play seems to have more speed in the front court so I wonder why we always swing and miss on recruits. I was merely commenting there are other players on the team we can try in that position to prepare for another worse case scenario like someone else getting hurt. Also, if you look on the football side of the forums I started a Stanley post full of love.
I'm sorry you have to talk crap about my post to feel better about the shag carpet that surrounds your bedroom in your mom's basement. There are other ways adults can share opinions and have opposing views about the teams they love without being dbags.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
That kid is good, but he wasn't that good. we all know iowa has (relatively) slow-footed guards. Iowa was playing a lot of zone and sometimes that kid was attacking our 3's off the dribble.
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His court vision was off the charts and he was dropping dimes from every angle, to every spot on the floor. He would avg 10 assists a game on our team. I wouldn't care if he never took a shot.
 
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