Compare the impact of Woodbury/Gesell to Horner/Brunner as freshmen.

[RocknRollface]

Basabe averaged 11 ppg and 6.8 rpg last year as a freshmen, over an entire year. I don't see why Woodbury can't do 7 & 5.

That said, yes, I understand that Woody & Gesell will both be freshmen and players develop at different rates. Especially at various positions.

But we're talking about a Top 50 recruit in Woodbury, yes? Or at least Top 100? I just don't see 7 & 5 as that crazy of a goal.

Wow, That is almost word for word what I was going to say.

Basabe was very raw and still managed those numbers.

Woodbury is a top 50 player people. MVP of the nba camp so the ranking is based on allot more than potential. This is the opposite of a project.

Ive not seen him play but that ranking and calibur of award at 7'1 should indicate someone who is ready to step in, start and average close to 10 and 8.

 

[GhostofBTT]

I am glad someone else brings up Meyers Leonard when focusing expectations for Woodbury. Don't just look at Leonard's numbers last year, and presume that it was just because he was sitting behind a senior. He looked BAD quite a bit last season; he was pushed around, unagressive, and often getting stupid fouls.

There is a very real chance that Woodbury looks like this next year. Leonard was a top 20 recruit, but he had never played a real game against grown men, and they didn't care about his ranking. Woodbury is going to take the same lumps, and we won't have much to fall back on.

Of course, Leonard learned from it, and is now one of the best players in the Big 10...

 

[Tmoney12]

I am glad someone else brings up Meyers Leonard when focusing expectations for Woodbury. Don't just look at Leonard's numbers last year, and presume that it was just because he was sitting behind a senior. He looked BAD quite a bit last season; he was pushed around, unagressive, and often getting stupid fouls. There is a very real chance that Woodbury looks like this next year. Leonard was a top 20 recruit, but he had never played a real game against grown men, and they didn't care about his ranking. Woodbury is going to take the same lumps, and we won't have much to fall back on.Of course, Leonard learned from it, and is now one of the best players in the Big 10...

I just hope we dont see people trashing and giving up on Woody when he struggles. I am sure it will happen thou.

 

[ICHAWK]

I just hope we dont see people trashing and giving up on Woody when he struggles. I am sure it will happen thou.

I expect him to Struggle. He just does not look that strong really in the clips I have seen. He will have bigger stronger guys pushing him in the post compared to what he has seen in High School and AAU ball.

He has a great skill set to buil on obviously as you are not ranked as high as him in the recruiting world by accident. I just hope he surprises me and is a bigger factor as a freshmen than I expect.

I hope his break out year is is sophomore year. He will have been on campus for over a year and will have had some time in the weight room and gotten used to the increased challenges of playing college ball.

 

[Tmoney12]

I just hope we dont see people trashing and giving up on Woody when he struggles. I am sure it will happen thou.

I expect him to Struggle. He just does not look that strong really in the clips I have seen. He will have bigger stronger guys pushing him in the post compared to what he has seen in High School and AAU ball.He has a great skill set to buil on obviously as you are not ranked as high as him in the recruiting world by accident. I just hope he surprises me and is a bigger factor as a freshmen than I expect.I hope his break out year is is sophomore year. He will have been on campus for over a year and will have had some time in the weight room and gotten used to the increased challenges of playing college ball.

Totally agree. But we know how bi-polar Iowa fans are. If he isnt putting up 10 and 8 he will be labeled a bust.

 

[herbyhawk]

i don't think the AAU kids are all that skinny or weak
they don't invite the sisters of the poor to the Top 100 NBA camp
and i wouldn't call a 7'1 245 lb senior in HS skinny
the only thing that has been posted in the school stats is his weakness in FT shooting
35% ft shooting last year
49% ft shooting last year
but ft shooting can be worked on
one other thing Zeller of indiana at 6'11 220 lbs, seems to be doing just fine and i find it hard to see a 220 lb's center pushing a 245 lb's center around

 

[hawkfan33]

I think Woodbury will have a huge impact on the defensive end from the get go. Its been mentioned in multiple reports on him what a good communicator he is on defense. He sounds like he will be the perfect guy to anchor our defense and hopefully can clean up some of our defensive mistakes. I'm not expecting a ton out of him on the offensive end his freshman year, if he can put in 8-10 points a game I would be happy. He's going to be a starter from the first day he sets foot on campus, he's going to struggle his freshman year but these struggles should pay off down the road.

 

[clicheusername3]

So...I guess I'm comparing to see which duo is more overrated? Because Horner/Brunner is totally overrated. It's going to take alot of overratedness for Gessel/Woodbury to top this contest.

 

[SteveGarvey]

So...I guess I'm comparing to see which duo is more overrated? Because Horner/Brunner is totally overrated. It's going to take alot of overratedness for Gessel/Woodbury to top this contest.

Horner/Brunner were not overrated. That's just laughable.

 

[herbyhawk]

laughable is putting it mildley the group that came in with Horner and Bru
did the one thing no other group as done to date
they went undefeated at home the entire season OOC and in conference play
but to compare Bru to Woodbury is unrealistic both are two totally different players and play two totally different positions
a better comparison would Lohaus and Woody, both were 7's and both were top 50 recruits
and to judge either one on their year as freshmen is neither needed or called for

 

[RocknRollface]

Most top 50 recruits don't "struggle." Now because one guy did for Illinois thats what we should expect?

Do you guys honestly think that is the norm or the exception?

Why wouldn't you expect him to play at least as well as Basabe, a complete unknown, did as a freshman? Yeah Basabe was more athletic but 6 inches shorter and skinnier and did not get pushed around.

Im really finding the reasoning hard to grasp.

I expect him to be up and down, to have some poor games, and then some good ones, but I do not expect my overall impression to be that of "struggling."

 

[herbyhawk]

the weight thing used to much
Johnson the 6'11 kid from Purdue last year weighed under 240 and had a heck of a career
Sullinger of OSU at 270 is the exception and is not the norm and he is a PF
we are not talking about WWE wrestling here

 

[JHHawk]

Adrien Payne of MSU was another big man who was top 20 coming out of HS,and he struggled last year as a frosh. This year,with more muscle,he looks a lot better.

The rarity is the 7fter who come straight out of high school and is even Zeller-good.
Anthony Davis is the #1 rated recruit in the 2011 class,and is 6'10'' and is extremely long. And he has had some very good games,but I also have seen him disappear at times.
I also question whether Woody will weight 25lbs more than Zeller next year when he enters. Zeller looks bigger than 220lbs,and Woody looks thinner than Zeller right now,anyway.

Remember how Gabe was a lock to average a double double? Reality stinks,and big men take longer.

 

[RADMAN]

Both Gesell and Woodbury are better players than Aaron White and Olgelsby. Aaron is averaging 9.0pts and 6.6rb while Josh is averaging 7.5 and 2.0. I know they haven't gotten into the conference yet but both could maintain or increase those numbers as they get stronger. For Gesell and Woody to at least carry those numbers for the year is probable. All in all, Gesell and Woodbury will fit nicely with the current freshman and soph. players and by midseason next year the team should be showing signs of a significant jump in improvement. One thing about Gesell is that he will score if he has to but he will create if it helps the team more which will lower his scoring numbers while improving his assist numbers. I also think that the other incoming freshman as a whole could have very good numbers as well.

As I said back then, Gesell will be the best PG we have had in many years. Woody will develop over the year and will benefit from having Basabe and White to take the heat off of him. Gesell as I had stated somewhere after I watched him play here in Phoenix against some of top competition in the country, will start from day 1. Now I have to go and get my arm fixed from patting myself on the back.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

It'll be interesting to see how they fit in right away. I think Woodbury's numbers will vary so much due to different matchups. And not the matchups you might think, I mean with the refs. I think his mins will be less then people will want cause of fouls. I don't see him playing over 25 mins a game avg. Some teams will have big guys for him to go up against and others won't. If Woodbury averages 8 and 5 with a block or 2 that'd be great. Gessell should be interesting. I think his numbers will be all over the place game to game. If he's able to run the offense and not turn the ball over much I'll be tickled. He won't be asked to score so much just knock down the occasional open 3. I think he'll get 5 assists for an avg maybe alittle more. but pts is a crap shoot maybe 5-8 with a couple of games where he gets 15-20. Biggest thing will be if he can not turn it over and if he can defend at this level without fouling. He will be asked to play big mins unlike Woodbury.

 

[SpiderRico]

No offense to anyone personally, but some of the numbers being thrown around here are just completely a$$inine. I think some people have grown up on video games so much that they think the stats they compile on those games are somehow grounded in reality.....they're not.

Mike Gessel averaging 5 assists per game? If he did that, that would land him in the top 10 ALL TIME for assists in a season....somewhere around 6th or 7th best assists in a season in Hawkeye Basketball history! Jeff Horner avg'd 5 assists/game for his career. BJ Armstrong avg'd 4 assists/game for his career. Andre Woolridge has the best assists/game in Hawkeye history with 5.9/game. And some people think Gessell is going to come in and avg 5 per game from day 1? No freaking way.

Or Woodbury with 2 blocks per game? Again, that'd put him Top 10 ALL TIME for a season if he did that....somewhere around the 6th best blocks in a season in the history of Hawkeye Basketball!

I look for these guys to come in and have some good games and some bad games....like virtually all freshmen do. I figure Gessell will average somewhere around 5-6 points per game and probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 assists per game. Woodbury will probably be around 5-6 points per game and probably around 3-4 rebounds per game. Each guy will probably avg around 18-22 mins per game.

 

[tksirius]

Did you watch the game last night? Gesell is certainly capable of averaging 5 assists a game.

No offense to anyone personally, but some of the numbers being thrown around here are just completely a$$inine. I think some people have grown up on video games so much that they think the stats they compile on those games are somehow grounded in reality.....they're not.

Mike Gessel averaging 5 assists per game? If he did that, that would land him in the top 10 ALL TIME for assists in a season....somewhere around 6th or 7th best assists in a season in Hawkeye Basketball history! Jeff Horner avg'd 5 assists/game for his career. BJ Armstrong avg'd 4 assists/game for his career. Andre Woolridge has the best assists/game in Hawkeye history with 5.9/game. And some people think Gessell is going to come in and avg 5 per game from day 1? No freaking way.

Or Woodbury with 2 blocks per game? Again, that'd put him Top 10 ALL TIME for a season if he did that....somewhere around the 6th best blocks in a season in the history of Hawkeye Basketball!

I look for these guys to come in and have some good games and some bad games....like virtually all freshmen do. I figure Gessell will average somewhere around 5-6 points per game and probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 assists per game. Woodbury will probably be around 5-6 points per game and probably around 3-4 rebounds per game. Each guy will probably avg around 18-22 mins per game.

 

[JHHawk]

As I said back then, Gesell will be the best PG we have had in many years. Woody will develop over the year and will benefit from having Basabe and White to take the heat off of him. Gesell as I had stated somewhere after I watched him play here in Phoenix against some of top competition in the country, will start from day 1. Now I have to go and get my arm fixed from patting myself on the back.

You called it. There is nothing like actually seeing these guys play on the court to really get a feel for their games.
This is why I always feel that BB recruit ratings are much more dependable than football....summer AAU ball where players go up against the other top players in direct competition...just not possible in football.
Watching Mike and Adam in this game really solidfied them as the best duo to come to Iowa since Horner/Brunner,and I expect them to be as good or better than those guys,which is saying a lot. Bru was 1st team all league,and Jeff has a boatload of Iowa records. I think Woody and Mike are just a hair better fits for their center and pg positions than Bru and Jeff who were both kind of combo guys.

So,congrats to you on your prescience on the impact of Mike and Adam.

 

[OatesStache]

Most top 50 recruits don't "struggle." Now because one guy did for Illinois thats what we should expect?

Do you guys honestly think that is the norm or the exception?

Why wouldn't you expect him to play at least as well as Basabe, a complete unknown, did as a freshman? Yeah Basabe was more athletic but 6 inches shorter and skinnier and did not get pushed around.

Im really finding the reasoning hard to grasp.

I expect him to be up and down, to have some poor games, and then some good ones, but I do not expect my overall impression to be that of "struggling."

Look at last year's top 100 recruits, and see how effective the big men were their freshman year. Maybe 1 in 4 was a big contributor on their team. People need to stop thinking guys that just because Anthony Davis and Cody Zeller were great as freshmen, then any big man can be effective. The odds are against it. It is ok to allow the possibility, but be realistic.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

No offense to anyone personally, but some of the numbers being thrown around here are just completely a$$inine. I think some people have grown up on video games so much that they think the stats they compile on those games are somehow grounded in reality.....they're not.

Mike Gessel averaging 5 assists per game? If he did that, that would land him in the top 10 ALL TIME for assists in a season....somewhere around 6th or 7th best assists in a season in Hawkeye Basketball history! Jeff Horner avg'd 5 assists/game for his career. BJ Armstrong avg'd 4 assists/game for his career. Andre Woolridge has the best assists/game in Hawkeye history with 5.9/game. And some people think Gessell is going to come in and avg 5 per game from day 1? No freaking way.

Or Woodbury with 2 blocks per game? Again, that'd put him Top 10 ALL TIME for a season if he did that....somewhere around the 6th best blocks in a season in the history of Hawkeye Basketball!

I look for these guys to come in and have some good games and some bad games....like virtually all freshmen do. I figure Gessell will average somewhere around 5-6 points per game and probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 assists per game. Woodbury will probably be around 5-6 points per game and probably around 3-4 rebounds per game. Each guy will probably avg around 18-22 mins per game.

In Licklighters system I'd maybe agree with you on Gessel's possible numbers. However look at what Cartwright was able to do last yr when healthy all year in his first yr under Mcaffery. I think with the up and down game and him having the ball in his hands alot he'll avg more then 2-3 assists so long as he's healthy and able the rigors of big 10 play. I feel he'll play over 25 mins a game hopefully 30. Could be wrong. As far as Woodburry your guess is just as good as anybodys there big guys are tough. He's not a Sullinger type for sure.