Coach Ferentz apologist - Guilty

proudhawkfan21

Well-Known Member
This has been argued a million times. Just one time give me a good reason why Ferentz is a bad coach.Lets list a few items.

1. Recruiting. This is Iowa. What is the attraction for a recruit? Give me a reason that a 4-5 star recruit should pick the state of Iowa over anyone else. Don't tell me Joe Coach can recruit kids to Iowa. Which leads into....

2.Tradition? Like it or not KF is 35 years of that tradition. If you want to say Iowa plays in the Big Ten so Stoops and Saban and Miles and all the recruiters want to be here, no , they don't. They would be hoping for a good year to get out quick.

3. Professional respect. You can argue this all you want but it is well known that Iowa teaches the game...develops NFL players...and do it with 2 and 3 star recruits or walk ons (see #1 if you got the urge to argue this point). Its an industry fact. You can't argue it. Its fact.

4. Consistency. We complain about the same old, same old. There is a formula for winning with lesser athletes. Train hard, be disciplined, utilize your talents. We slow the game down. We play to have a chance to win. I've seen 12-0. I've seen a couple of 11-2. I've seen many January 1 bowl games. I've seen Penn State upsets, Lsu miracles, orange bowl victories, Michigan upsets, big ten titles, I've even seen Iowa hijack and terrorize an entire nation of college football fans. Lots of smiles and cheers.

5. The Gold Standard. If Hayden Fry is the gold standard here, then you HAVE to put KF in the same category as the record is nearly identical. If national championships are the gold standard, then who? Who is your miracle worker? Bielema? He's far from the best coach in his conference. Stoops? Doesn't want us. Who will lead us magically to the pearly gates and the recruiting fields of gold? You want someone better. Who, pray you, is that?

6. Pride. I know of very few people that make me more proud to be an Iowan than Kirk Ferentz. He had opportunities to leave us (save the snarky comments for the cyclone board), but committed to Iowa. He carries himself as a gentleman, a teacher and a father figure. He gives back to his community and his university. He cares deeply about his players. See the post Michigan interview. See the Brent Greenwood stories. See how He talks about famous and not so famous former players. He doesn't make excuses. He takes blame. He is loyal to people. You can try to find a way to make that a flaw. In some ways it is. We all succumb to loyalty. At the end of the day, he does his job.

So begin your bashing of a man who will go down in history as the winningest coach in Iowa history. Wish for something better. But ask yourself, what does better look like? After listening to most on here, national championships are the only measure of success. There are tons of terrible coaches in the hall of fame if that is your measuring stick including coach Fry. You, reader/Hawkeye fan, have every right to your opinion. I only hope that you find purpose in a life well-lived instead of a life of what-ifs. Enjoy the Hawks. Enjoy Coach Ferentz. One day you will get your wish of an opening day sunny saturday kickoff without Coach Ferentz on the sideline. I hope it's worth the 20+ years of misery and that you don't regret missing some great hawkeye memories.
 
I don't think a lot of people question Kirk Ferentz coaching ability. Its the people around him that are suspect more than he is.
 
I think you make great points...but I think in my case all the constant contract extensions, massive bonuses and huge buyouts kind of leave a sour taste in people's mouths when Iowa underperforms.

Kirk has some brilliant characteristics, but he needs to open his mind, and that happens to fat cats in any profession. He is untouchable and knows it.

I am a capitalist and I don't necessarily question the value of the service he provides, but I am an emotional fan at heart and I want to see a competitive aggressive team every week against every team.
 
...He had opportunities to leave us (save the snarky comments for the cyclone board), but committed to Iowa...

And you know this as a fact? If so do spill the beans of how you know this.

It's very clear that the offense has been worse under Davis which speaks volumes since it wasn't that great under KOK.

By Ferentz staying with this bad marriage and not divorcing Davis I guess you could call that many things. Bad coaching, stubbornness, and being a poor trend identifier are some that come to mind.
 
This has been argued a million times. Just one time give me a good reason why Ferentz is a bad coach.Lets list a few items.

1. Recruiting. This is Iowa. What is the attraction for a recruit? Give me a reason that a 4-5 star recruit should pick the state of Iowa over anyone else. Don't tell me Joe Coach can recruit kids to Iowa. Which leads into....

2.Tradition? Like it or not KF is 35 years of that tradition. If you want to say Iowa plays in the Big Ten so Stoops and Saban and Miles and all the recruiters want to be here, no , they don't. They would be hoping for a good year to get out quick.

3. Professional respect. You can argue this all you want but it is well known that Iowa teaches the game...develops NFL players...and do it with 2 and 3 star recruits or walk ons (see #1 if you got the urge to argue this point). Its an industry fact. You can't argue it. Its fact.

4. Consistency. We complain about the same old, same old. There is a formula for winning with lesser athletes. Train hard, be disciplined, utilize your talents. We slow the game down. We play to have a chance to win. I've seen 12-0. I've seen a couple of 11-2. I've seen many January 1 bowl games. I've seen Penn State upsets, Lsu miracles, orange bowl victories, Michigan upsets, big ten titles, I've even seen Iowa hijack and terrorize an entire nation of college football fans. Lots of smiles and cheers.

5. The Gold Standard. If Hayden Fry is the gold standard here, then you HAVE to put KF in the same category as the record is nearly identical. If national championships are the gold standard, then who? Who is your miracle worker? Bielema? He's far from the best coach in his conference. Stoops? Doesn't want us. Who will lead us magically to the pearly gates and the recruiting fields of gold? You want someone better. Who, pray you, is that?

6. Pride. I know of very few people that make me more proud to be an Iowan than Kirk Ferentz. He had opportunities to leave us (save the snarky comments for the cyclone board), but committed to Iowa. He carries himself as a gentleman, a teacher and a father figure. He gives back to his community and his university. He cares deeply about his players. See the post Michigan interview. See the Brent Greenwood stories. See how He talks about famous and not so famous former players. He doesn't make excuses. He takes blame. He is loyal to people. You can try to find a way to make that a flaw. In some ways it is. We all succumb to loyalty. At the end of the day, he does his job.

So begin your bashing of a man who will go down in history as the winningest coach in Iowa history. Wish for something better. But ask yourself, what does better look like? After listening to most on here, national championships are the only measure of success. There are tons of terrible coaches in the hall of fame if that is your measuring stick including coach Fry. You, reader/Hawkeye fan, have every right to your opinion. I only hope that you find purpose in a life well-lived instead of a life of what-ifs. Enjoy the Hawks. Enjoy Coach Ferentz. One day you will get your wish of an opening day sunny saturday kickoff without Coach Ferentz on the sideline. I hope it's worth the 20+ years of misery and that you don't regret missing some great hawkeye memories.

Lots of truth in this post.

Things that bother me most about Coach Ferentz:
#1. Why he struggles so much with beating poor teams. He has every bit as many bad losses as he has good wins. The philosophy you mention in #4 also allows even the worst of teams to beat Iowa.
#2. Why the "buyout" terms in his contract? Seems a great guy like that would not want to put the University in a bad position.

Also, Hayden Fry took Iowa from the scrap heap of college football. He built the program. Ferentz carried on.
 
4. Consistency. Really? Consistency in approach, sure. But, consistency in results? From 12-0 to this year? I'd rather have less of the former and more of the latter. Those "highs" you listed can be matched by some pretty ridiculous lows.

6. Pride. "He doesn't make excuses. He takes blame." Reeeeaaally?? Is this still KF you're talking about? "We're just a developmental program." "We just need to execute better." "The cavalry's not coming." Any of those sound familiar? Guess what? Those ARE excuses! Guess what? Those are shifting blame, not taking blame. Any problems are because we're just Iowa, or the players need to do better.
 
Mostly good points in OP.
Why do you have to be an apologist? I read that and it sounds like jock sniffer.

Why not just give him his due praise when he deserves it and give him "constructive criticism" or crap when he deserves it?
 
Can't argue with anything you say ProudHawkFan couple additional color comments:

1. Recruiting has been mediocre at best...despite conf. titles etc. I posted an analysis earlier this year. Bill Snyder has done more with less than KF and his staff have. You can't dispute winning percentages it's just fact. How do you lose a bunch of quality recruits coming off a 12-0 season?! We seem to be really good at that.

2. Most years we don't or won't even sniff conf. titles (last year was a total anomaly) look at the under performance this year and the year before last year. We played better with OTHER players in there than were the starters at beginning of year. So either the coaching staff has their heads up their A** or they did a poor job of evaluating and understanding improvement in their players. OR they play the players they just simply LIKE more than those that they don't.

3. The Michigan win only proves that PP and KF are pretty good at playing against Pro Style offenses. The offense was terrible. GD came out of his dementia for enough plays to score 14 points congrats.

4. The contract extension for that period of time for that kind of money was a waste and didn't need to be done. What's KF going to do Leave?! Not likely with a kid playing and another son Coaching there. Be real.
 
1. Recruiting is about effort. You look at the best recruiters, and it's a 24/7 job for them (within the rules...or not). Now getting them there is one step, coaching them up is another (Zook). I'm not sure the effort has been there since 2005. KF was burned by the City Boyz debacle, and for many years apparently didn't seem to even bother with recruiting. Probably a good reason why since 2010, our seasons have been average to below average....minus 2015 which appears to be an anomoly. We are sending out more offers than in years past. We've gone back into the South, so maybe we'll see some improvement. But after this year, who knows if more people jump ship

2. We don't really ever have a chance at the division because we seem to always lose a game to a lesser team during the season, and then putting so much pressure on us to beat the better teams. There's a reason why NE, and WI seem to always be at the top, and it's because they beat the crap out of the lower teams.

3. Beating Michigan will just further cement KF way of football. Think there'll be changes now with the offense? Not a chance, we just beat the #3 team in the country!! Our defense is made to go up against power teams. 95% of the time, the defense does well (there are exceptions, but I feel very confident going against the WI, UM, and other pro style teams). To take nothing away from this team, the defense showed up. They smashed them in the mouth. Props to them, but lets see if it carries over to IL.

4. KF was never going to leave. He has the best job in all of sports. He would have been eaten alive in the NFL, both by the media and fans. I think the 2001-2004 KF would have had some success in the NFL, as he was much more aggressive, and he had a kick butt staff. But the NFL is all about results, and any dip in performance would have meant firing assistants, or being shown the door himself.

He has never had to do that here at Iowa. Closest was 2015 where he made a QB change in January, and talked about adjusting their schemes. To his credit, he did make some small adjustments that had big results (trying to score at end of 1st half yielded plenty of extra scores that year). But now that he got the fan base off his back, he's back to his old ways.

We may win out. We may lose out. We'll see how we do in the bowl game against better competition. That would be a nice trend to break, losing, and losing badly in our last few bowl games
 
Because that's the high brow kind of conversation and debate I expect from a Hawkeye fan.

SMH...

So, a second innuendo played off of another innuendo is on your radar but the original innuendo is not?

ThunderHawk must be one mean message board tuff guy.

p.s. Life is short. Have some fun. If this stresses you maybe you're taking a game of sport a bit too serious.
 
And you know this as a fact? If so do spill the beans of how you know this.

It's very clear that the offense has been worse under Davis which speaks volumes since it wasn't that great under KOK.

By Ferentz staying with this bad marriage and not divorcing Davis I guess you could call that many things. Bad coaching, stubbornness, and being a poor trend identifier are some that come to mind.

My brother reminded me of a quote. Not sure who said it, but.... "When you look at the coach's record, it won't say Greg Davis was 12-0 at one point last year and it won't say Greg Davis was 4-8 a few years ago. It will say Kirk Ferentz was 12-0 at one point last year and Kirk Ferentz was 4-8 a few years ago."

I believe that Kirk has his hand in the offense. But when you are the one who gets tagged with the win or the loss it is you that needs to have final say.
 
As soon as you said "This is Iowa", I knew this argument wasn't worth having. Sorry but that's a weak start and loser mentality that I feel continues to hold our program back.


This has been argued a million times. Just one time give me a good reason why Ferentz is a bad coach.Lets list a few items.

1. Recruiting. This is Iowa. What is the attraction for a recruit? Give me a reason that a 4-5 star recruit should pick the state of Iowa over anyone else. Don't tell me Joe Coach can recruit kids to Iowa. Which leads into....

2.Tradition? Like it or not KF is 35 years of that tradition. If you want to say Iowa plays in the Big Ten so Stoops and Saban and Miles and all the recruiters want to be here, no , they don't. They would be hoping for a good year to get out quick.

3. Professional respect. You can argue this all you want but it is well known that Iowa teaches the game...develops NFL players...and do it with 2 and 3 star recruits or walk ons (see #1 if you got the urge to argue this point). Its an industry fact. You can't argue it. Its fact.

4. Consistency. We complain about the same old, same old. There is a formula for winning with lesser athletes. Train hard, be disciplined, utilize your talents. We slow the game down. We play to have a chance to win. I've seen 12-0. I've seen a couple of 11-2. I've seen many January 1 bowl games. I've seen Penn State upsets, Lsu miracles, orange bowl victories, Michigan upsets, big ten titles, I've even seen Iowa hijack and terrorize an entire nation of college football fans. Lots of smiles and cheers.

5. The Gold Standard. If Hayden Fry is the gold standard here, then you HAVE to put KF in the same category as the record is nearly identical. If national championships are the gold standard, then who? Who is your miracle worker? Bielema? He's far from the best coach in his conference. Stoops? Doesn't want us. Who will lead us magically to the pearly gates and the recruiting fields of gold? You want someone better. Who, pray you, is that?

6. Pride. I know of very few people that make me more proud to be an Iowan than Kirk Ferentz. He had opportunities to leave us (save the snarky comments for the cyclone board), but committed to Iowa. He carries himself as a gentleman, a teacher and a father figure. He gives back to his community and his university. He cares deeply about his players. See the post Michigan interview. See the Brent Greenwood stories. See how He talks about famous and not so famous former players. He doesn't make excuses. He takes blame. He is loyal to people. You can try to find a way to make that a flaw. In some ways it is. We all succumb to loyalty. At the end of the day, he does his job.

So begin your bashing of a man who will go down in history as the winningest coach in Iowa history. Wish for something better. But ask yourself, what does better look like? After listening to most on here, national championships are the only measure of success. There are tons of terrible coaches in the hall of fame if that is your measuring stick including coach Fry. You, reader/Hawkeye fan, have every right to your opinion. I only hope that you find purpose in a life well-lived instead of a life of what-ifs. Enjoy the Hawks. Enjoy Coach Ferentz. One day you will get your wish of an opening day sunny saturday kickoff without Coach Ferentz on the sideline. I hope it's worth the 20+ years of misery and that you don't regret missing some great hawkeye memories.
 
As soon as you said "This is Iowa", I knew this argument wasn't worth having. Sorry but that's a weak start and loser mentality that I feel continues to hold our program back.

The fans with low expectations are why Iowa is where it's at. Kinda reminds me of America and the 70s. The country basically packed-it-in after the Apollo program ended. No more grand ambitions. Shooting for the stars was a no-no in literal terms and as a metaphor for America's manifest destiny.

Jesus I just depressed the hell out of myself with that post.
 
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