Coach Ferentz apologist - Guilty

[blubberhawk]

Your points are well delivered and received. I think the fact that we play that style is most certainly what bugs people the most. I'd love to put some old school 61-10 poundings on a few patsies as well. I DO miss that HF era highlight.

I think the buyout is just having good business sense. Most of us would do the same thing for ourselves and our families. He has also given millions back to the university.

The University has paid him millions. He has to be set for life already. (he and all of his family) Kudos to him because all of us would do the same for our families. But.., the buyout provisions were not necessary at this stage of his life. The contract term is disturbing enough. The buy out provisions could put the university in a bad situation at some point. Not sure why Ferentz would want that..

 

[HomerChampless]

The University has paid him millions. He has to be set for life already. (he and all of his family) Kudos to him because all of us would do the same for our families. But.., the buyout provisions were not necessary at this stage of his life. The contract term is disturbing enough. The buy out provisions could put the university in a bad situation at some point. Not sure why Ferentz would want that..

Since Iowa can't feasibly buy out KF's contract, make KF want to leave Iowa. Ferentz wants complete control in all facets of the football team. Have the university take away some of those areas under KF's domain. Like assistant coaches, etc.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

Since Iowa can't feasibly buy out KF's contract, make KF want to leave Iowa. Ferentz wants complete control in all facets of the football team. Have the university take away some of those areas under KF's domain. Like assistant coaches, etc.

They don't want him to leave as most real fans don't want him to leave either. IF we win the last 2 games, 8-4 is a good record. The coaching hot seat doesn't exist. I think one needs only to look 2 hours to the north and west of Iowa city to see the other side of college football success.

 

[HomerChampless]

They don't want him to leave as most real fans don't want him to leave either. IF we win the last 2 games, 8-4 is a good record. The coaching hot seat doesn't exist. I think one needs only to look 2 hours to the north and west of Iowa city to see the other side of college football success.

You say success. I say stagnation.

 

[ssckelley]

First of all, great read, and you make a lot of good points that I wish would get through some people's head that post on here. But there is room for criticism, I don't think Ferentz needs to be awarded with an extension every damn time they have a great season and I think we can do better on the offensive side of the ball. But looking through the entire body of work I've been happy with Ferentz as a coach, OTOH I felt he had 1 foot out the door after that 2012 season.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

You say success. I say stagnation.

We can argue back and forth. I want to be the Alabama of the Midwest as well. But history paints a different picture. History speaks loudly when it's a never happened issue...save someone claiming 1960 as a national title

 

[proudhawkfan21]

First of all, great read, and you make a lot of good points that I wish would get through some people's head that post on here. But there is room for criticism, I don't think Ferentz needs to be awarded with an extension every damn time they have a great season and I think we can do better on the offensive side of the ball. But looking through the entire body of work I've been happy with Ferentz as a coach, OTOH I felt he had 1 foot out the door after that 2012 season.

Thanks for the kind words. I guess I should qualify my sentiments. Of course I'm disappointed at times with a game we should have won. I think 9 wins EVERY year should be the goal and that is not happening. I think there is a very small margin for error and so 7-5 becomes as likely as 9-3 or 10-2. We are playing with kids that on paper are the same stars as most of our opponents. So the answer is recruit better. I do think we could find a dynamic recruiter to sell a great tradition and great facilities. But still...where would you rather be...southern California...gulf coast florida...South Florida....and then the Michigan and Ohio state's of the world have so much history and can GUARANTEE a run at a title and a high draft position...if the athlete works hard. I don't know the answer to this question...but....would we win national titles with Harbaugh? Urban Meyer? Pete Carroll? I'm not sure because they aren't sure either. I think that is the point.

 

[blubberhawk]

Thanks for the kind words. I guess I should qualify my sentiments. Of course I'm disappointed at times with a game we should have won. I think 9 wins EVERY year should be the goal and that is not happening. I think there is a very small margin for error and so 7-5 becomes as likely as 9-3 or 10-2. We are playing with kids that on paper are the same stars as most of our opponents. So the answer is recruit better. I do think we could find a dynamic recruiter to sell a great tradition and great facilities. But still...where would you rather be...southern California...gulf coast florida...South Florida....and then the Michigan and Ohio state's of the world have so much history and can GUARANTEE a run at a title and a high draft position...if the athlete works hard. I don't know the answer to this question...but....would we win national titles with Harbaugh? Urban Meyer? Pete Carroll? I'm not sure because they aren't sure either. I think that is the point.

Most all would be happy with Ferentz as the head coach as long as it appeared that he was trying to make improvements in areas that our team lacks. Offense, Offense, Offense. Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. It is ok to "kiss ass" to get recruits. It is what gifted kids are used to these days.

 

[BGOLD]

Mostly good points from the OP. However, we're still 6-4 and in the midst of a disappointing season.
Ferentz gets his credit (and his money) when Iowa performs and gets his due criticism when they under perform; which is how it should be.
I honestly believe Barta made Ferentz critics out of all of us to a certain degree with his huge buyouts and contract extensions. Any negativity regarding Ferentz and the contract is one of the first things brought up. It didn't have to be that way.
Finish the season strong and get rid of Davis in the off-season.

 

[proudhawkfan21]

Most all would be happy with Ferentz as the head coach as long as it appeared that he was trying to make improvements in areas that our team lacks. Offense, Offense, Offense. Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. It is ok to "kiss ass" to get recruits. It is what gifted kids are used to these days.

Yep. I would tend to agree there. We have huge disadvantages all around in recruiting...I wouldn't mind seeing a whole lot of courting..bottom smooching and romancing of recruits.

 

[ssckelley]

Thanks for the kind words. I guess I should qualify my sentiments. Of course I'm disappointed at times with a game we should have won. I think 9 wins EVERY year should be the goal and that is not happening. I think there is a very small margin for error and so 7-5 becomes as likely as 9-3 or 10-2. We are playing with kids that on paper are the same stars as most of our opponents. So the answer is recruit better. I do think we could find a dynamic recruiter to sell a great tradition and great facilities. But still...where would you rather be...southern California...gulf coast florida...South Florida....and then the Michigan and Ohio state's of the world have so much history and can GUARANTEE a run at a title and a high draft position...if the athlete works hard. I don't know the answer to this question...but....would we win national titles with Harbaugh? Urban Meyer? Pete Carroll? I'm not sure because they aren't sure either. I think that is the point.

I agree, it would take a big name coach to improve recruiting, Urban Meyer might be one of the few coaches that could get recruits to follow him no matter where he went (Sabin is another). Right now Iowa has the tradition of being a good football team, not one that can compete for NC every year. Every year the expectation should be a bowl game with an occasional NC run, and that's what we are getting with KF. The only way we can get this program to the next level is if they were to win a NC.

 

[DBAHawkFan]

What was Wisconsin's excuse last year? By your logic shouldn't they also have been great last year because of this year? What is Michigan State's excuse this year? Why has USC lost 3 games or ??? losses? If you expect Iowa to go 12-0 every year...you drank ALL of the koolaid at the compound. Wisconsin best us 17-9? Yes they won handily..but we were in that game down to the wire. They have 2 losses. Why aren't they 10-0?

This year? They have losses to the #2 & #3 teams in the country. They were in both games, but couldn't pull it off. I wouldn't feel ashamed if Iowa performed the same way against OSU, and obviously we beat Michigan.

Their excuse last year? Guess I'd say they had a down year?? New staff, and their losses were to three quality teams

Alabama to start the season
Iowa
NW

They went on to beat USC in the bowl game. My point is this, every year WI is constantly in the discussion for division and conference championships. Put them in division with OSU and UM, they win division. Three straight Rose Bowls

Yes, they were "lucky" OSU had NCAA hammer them for a couple of seasons, but same could be said about Iowa, we haven't played OSU since 2013.

WI hasn't had a decent QB since Russel Wilson, they play a smash mouth style of football, and yet they don't have the troubles that Iowa does with scoring points or any other offensive numbers.

The difference between the two programs is at the top, Barry is a much better AD than Barta. Barry wants to win, where Barta seems more concerned with raising $$$. Barry sounds difficult to deal with, with being on their 3rd coach in 5 years, but no matter who gets plugged in, they win.

I'd like to see Iowa get to the level WI is at. Where our DOWN year is 10-3 with a bowl win. But our AD has set the standard at 7 wins. And that's what we'll always strive for

 

[kicker22]

I agree, it would take a big name coach to improve recruiting, Urban Meyer might be one of the few coaches that could get recruits to follow him no matter where he went (Sabin is another). Right now Iowa has the tradition of being a good football team, not one that can compete for NC every year. Every year the expectation should be a bowl game with an occasional NC run, and that's what we are getting with KF. The only way we can get this program to the next level is if they were to win a NC.

We cannot be content with a bowl game every year when there are so many bowl games that 6 wins should get you there. I agree with the occasional NC run, but disagree with the only way to get to the next level is to win a National Championship. As you said we've occasionally found ourselves in contention. The problem we've faced is that immediately after those seasons we've quickly fallen back to average/good. It doesn't have to be about winning a national championship to get to the next level. You can reach that next level of contending year in and year out for a conference championship and playoff birth by stringing together enough very good (9+ wins) seasons to keep the momentum moving forward by putting together solid recruiting classes year after year. With our track record, we may periodically see that success bring in one decent recruiting class every few years, but to reach that next level you have to consistently get the very good seasons to get a very good recruiting base year in and year out to maintain success and get to that next level.

Like I've said. I have for the most part been a KF supporter, but the fact is that he's had a long enough time and historically has proven that the level of success to reach the next level cannot be sustained. With him we will continue to get what we've always gotten and there is little variation to what he's accomplished historically.

 

[ssckelley]

We cannot be content with a bowl game every year when there are so many bowl games that 6 wins should get you there. I agree with the occasional NC run, but disagree with the only way to get to the next level is to win a National Championship. As you said we've occasionally found ourselves in contention. The problem we've faced is that immediately after those seasons we've quickly fallen back to average/good. It doesn't have to be about winning a national championship to get to the next level. You can reach that next level of contending year in and year out for a conference championship and playoff birth by stringing together enough very good (9+ wins) seasons to keep the momentum moving forward by putting together solid recruiting classes year after year. With our track record, we may periodically see that success bring in one decent recruiting class every few years, but to reach that next level you have to consistently get the very good seasons to get a very good recruiting base year in and year out to maintain success and get to that next level.

In terms of recruiting Iowa is not going to get to the next level with just 9 win seasons. You have to remember what Iowa is up against when recruiting a 4/5 star out of state athlete, you better have a NC on your resume if you expect to consistently win against the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, or the SEC schools. Remember we are a state that only produces about 10-15 D1 recruits every year and we are not even the only D1 school in the state. Someone above mentioned Wisconsin, must be nice to be in a state with twice the amount of population that produces about 25-30 D1 recruits per year. Iowa has to go in and recruit for kids that didn't grow up loving Iowa as a kid.

I will concede that I should have said decent bowl games, 6 win seasons don't cut it.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Nice win against a VERY overrated team....Ferments is still a failure and did not deserve an extension...either time!

The truth likely lies somewhere in between this line of thinking and the OP's line of thinking. Both are a little on the fringe.

But, that message boards.

 

[kicker22]

In terms of recruiting Iowa is not going to get to the next level with just 9 win seasons. You have to remember what Iowa is up against when recruiting a 4/5 star out of state athlete, you better have a NC on your resume if you expect to consistently win against the likes of Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, or the SEC schools. Remember we are a state that only produces about 10-15 D1 recruits every year and we are not even the only D1 school in the state. Someone above mentioned Wisconsin, must be nice to be in a state with twice the amount of population that produces about 25-30 D1 recruits per year. Iowa has to go in and recruit for kids that didn't grow up loving Iowa as a kid.

I will concede that I should have said decent bowl games, 6 win seasons don't cut it.

I'm not saying 9 wins will do it. I'm saying consistently winning 9 games a year, year in and year out will open us up to the recruits that may (over time) help us compete consistently for division/conference championships and with that consistency may help us attract the recruits that can possibly get us a shot at a national championship.

You're absolutely right about competing with OSU, Michigan, etc... for those 4/5* recruits, and not every class is going to be loaded with them. That said if we can find a way to pull in 4 or 5 4* or better recruits each year as a result of that success, eventually we are looking at a roster loaded with talent. We've not been able to bring in that talent, because following up a great season with a mediocre season doesn't do anything to improve the recruiting classes for years to come.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

They don't want him to leave as most real fans don't want him to leave either. IF we win the last 2 games, 8-4 is a good record. The coaching hot seat doesn't exist. I think one needs only to look 2 hours to the north and west of Iowa city to see the other side of college football success.

I like KF, warts and all. I like him more when Iowa wins, and I like him a lot less when I see the reoccurring issues cost Iowa games.

That said, 8-4 is a decent record, not a good record, not with the schedule we have. Normally, with a middle of the road schedule and normal expectations, I'd be ok with 8 wins, but not this year, even if we win out and get 8-4 I can't help but feel like it would be disappointment overall. 7-5 is an avg year most years, this year it would be a huge disappointment. (If we can get to 9 wins with a decent bowl win over a decent opponent, i'll feel a little better, but it'll still be a "what if" feel. 9 regular season wins was the barometer this year.

This year, Anything short of going into November with being in the race for the West was going to be disappointing, period.

I do not consider Iowa State any kind of barometer for what i deem acceptable. I don't hate them as many do as I reserve that for nebby, living in Omaha, but they are an afterthought as far as overall comparison. If we even were coming close to that level, KF(nor anyone else) would survive....that said....that make KF's record vs. them all the more baffling/frustrations (this fact, along with retaining Davis, are really the two most damning things regarding KF that I cannot defend)

KF has been good for Iowa overall, but I can't fault most of those that can't reconcile a few of the more glaring issues he seems to have.

There are a few that are blind with discontent, but many simply see the same recurring issues and can't help but believe we could be better.

Winning is good, losing is bad.

Kirk ain't going anywhere for 5+ years, and you ain't going to convince anyone that wants him gone tomorrow of anything different.

 

[DDThompson]

"Random" thoughts about comments in this thread which, so far, is a good thread.

While recruiting to Iowa is more difficult than other areas of the country, the weight it is given is over exaggerated. The plethora of television channels diminishes the value of the argument. The consistent winning of Boise State in a weak conference makes shambles of the argument. We are talking Idaho. I-da-ho.

The trashing of Ferentz is over-the-top (not this thread but HN in general) and reaks of envy. I believe it takes more than one signature to sign a contract and Ferentz can't write his own.

Want to keep the good will bank in the black? Win the games you are supposed to win and it wouldn't hurt to blowout the teams you are supposed to beat badly. There's an additional benefit of getting backups on-field reps do next-man-in isn't a cold turkey coin flip.

I am sure Ferentz is a good and decent man. There are so many stories that give evidence of that. My brother and nephews met Ferentz and Davis in Menominee last year when they were recruiting Stanley. My brother/nephews were wearing their Iowa gear and when Ferentz/Davis saw them and walked over to talk to them. He said both of them were just real down-to-earth guys.

Being good and decent doesn't give mulligans from criticism for the job they do but it does or should deserve to do so in a respectful way. At least from good and decent people it does.

 

[ssckelley]

I'm not saying 9 wins will do it. I'm saying consistently winning 9 games a year, year in and year out will open us up to the recruits that may (over time) help us compete consistently for division/conference championships and with that consistency may help us attract the recruits that can possibly get us a shot at a national championship.

You're absolutely right about competing with OSU, Michigan, etc... for those 4/5* recruits, and not every class is going to be loaded with them. That said if we can find a way to pull in 4 or 5 4* or better recruits each year as a result of that success, eventually we are looking at a roster loaded with talent. We've not been able to bring in that talent, because following up a great season with a mediocre season doesn't do anything to improve the recruiting classes for years to come.

I disagree, 9 win seasons don't establish a tradition good enough to get the top recruits in the country. I'll go back to the Wisconsin example, they've been one of the best teams in the Big Ten for quite some time but they still do not attract enough 4/5 star recruits to have top recruiting classes. They are on the verge of their 4th season in a row with at least 9 wins and 11 out of their last 13.

 

[ssckelley]

While recruiting to Iowa is more difficult than other areas of the country, the weight it is given is over exaggerated. The plethora of television channels diminishes the value of the argument. The consistent winning of Boise State in a weak conference makes shambles of the argument. We are talking Idaho. I-da-ho.

I looked through some of Boise State's recruiting classes and I think I counted 2 four stars since 2012, and they have 1 committed for 2017. They ranked 55-70 nationally while every year ranked #1 in the Mountain West. I don't think the admission standards are quite as high at Boise State either.