Charlie Moore scores 38

[FirstDownHawkeyes]

White was good when he came in

Yes, White was good from day 1. MG was good for a freshman on day 1. MG was highly rated and you could say it was a recruiting win (until you see his offer list). BUT, I think it could be said that FM has done a good job of identifying and landing talent that ends up being elite in the B1G at the 2-4 positions. He has done a great job identifying talent at the 1 and 5 and getting early offers out to that talent BUT he hasn't had as much luck landing guys he really wanted at the 1 and 5. MG wasn't his first or second realistic choice the year he came in and neither were CW or JB. I'm not sure our current 1's were in the top 5. That doesn't mean that they can't end up being elite B1G players. It just makes it less likely.

 

[PCHawk]

Yes, White was good from day 1. MG was good for a freshman on day 1. MG was highly rated and you could say it was a recruiting win (until you see his offer list). BUT, I think it could be said that FM has done a good job of identifying and landing talent that ends up being elite in the B1G at the 2-4 positions. He has done a great job identifying talent at the 1 and 5 and getting early offers out to that talent BUT he hasn't had as much luck landing guys he really wanted at the 1 and 5. MG wasn't his first or second realistic choice the year he came in and neither were CW or JB. I'm. It sure our current 1's were in the top 5. That doesn't mean that they can't end up being elite B1G players. It just makes it less likely.

You're saying Gesell wasn't his first choice?

 

[PCHawk]

I would say the only really good players that Fran got without having an "in" is White and Cook. One was a recruiting find and one was a recruiting win. By those stats, he hasn't been great at recruiting regardless of position. What he is good at is putting a great team on the court with what he does have. All this means he isn't worse at recruiting point guard than the other 4 positions. He is equally average at all of them.

 

[NikeHawk21]

You're saying Gesell wasn't his first choice?

Marcus Paige

 

[Hawk5656]

I would say the only really good players that Fran got without having an "in" is White and Cook. One was a recruiting find and one was a recruiting win. By those stats, he hasn't been great at recruiting regardless of position. What he is good at is putting a great team on the court with what he does have. All this means he isn't worse at recruiting point guard than the other 4 positions. He is equally average at all of them.

He's by far the worst at the PG position when it comes to his recruiting

 

[FirstDownHawkeyes]

You're saying Gesell wasn't his first choice?

Paige was his first choice and I believe he had a couple other offers out to other 1's before MG. MG's only P5 offers were IA and NE. I remember being unimpressed with his offer list and that it didn't mess with being a top 100 recruit.

Edit: Offers: Iowa, NE, Creighton (not P5 at the time), and Stanford.

 

[PCHawk]

Paige was his first choice and I believe he had a couple other offers out to other 1's before MG. MG's only P5 offers were IA and NE. I remember being unimpressed with his offer list and that it didn't mess with being a top 100 recruit.

Edit: Offers: Iowa, NE, Creighton (not P5 at the time), and Stanford.

Well the best of the best would always be his first choice. Gesell was his first realistic choice, which comes before fallback recruits.

 

[PCHawk]

He's by far the worst at the PG position when it comes to his recruiting

How is he worse than center? MG=AW. AC=GO. BC is better than any center he brought in his first year. Shooting guard he convinced a legacy to stay and got a player no one else wanted because he was injured. Wing he let a kid come back home after he was unhappy at Wisconsin. Power forward is his best but only because he found a diamond in the rough that no one wanted and that's the position Cook happens to play.

 

[Hawk5656]

How is he worse than center? MG=AW. AC=GO. BC is better than any center he brought in his first year. Shooting guard he convinced a legacy to stay and got a player no one else wanted because he was injured. Wing he let a kid come back home after he was unhappy at Wisconsin. Power forward is his best but only because he found a diamond in the rough that no one wanted and that's the position Cook happens to play.

Because the Center isn't a needed position and he's probably offered 1/4 as many centers in his time here than PG's.

 

[deanvogs]

How is he worse than center? MG=AW. AC=GO. BC is better than any center he brought in his first year. Shooting guard he convinced a legacy to stay and got a player no one else wanted because he was injured. Wing he let a kid come back home after he was unhappy at Wisconsin. Power forward is his best but only because he found a diamond in the rough that no one wanted and that's the position Cook happens to play.

Why do you let VintageHawkeye keep trolling you? He lays out two sets of rules about what a "recruiting get" is for differing positions, and blathers on and on about them. He continues to hit me up with the same old trolls on Les Miles, KF, Eno, blah, blah, blah. That is what VintageHawkeye....errrrr.....56 does.

 

[PCHawk]

Because the Center isn't a needed position and he's probably offered 1/4 as many centers in his time here than PG's.

Why does how many he offers matter? And what about the other positions? If there happened to be a stud pg in state that happened to be a huge Iowa fan like Woody, or got hurt like Jok, or was a legacy like Marble, or was a hawk fan who wanted to come home like Uthoff, would Fran miraculously be good at recruiting point guards now? Do you see what I'm saying? He's not "better" at recruiting other positions. It just so happens the right kid haven't happened to fall in his lap like they have at other positions.

Look at all the kids who he's brought in that haven't had ties to Iowa. How is Williams and Cartwright any different than all of those guys besides Cook and White? Williams, Wagner, Besabe, Olaseni, Ellingson, Clemmons, Moss. They are all pretty much in the same category. Fran is "worse" at recruiting point guard because he hasn't had one fall into his lap yet.

If his son ends up being a stud point guard, suddenly he's great at recruiting point guards? Or did a great player fall in his lap. If Weiscamp ends up being really good, it's another example of Fran being good at recruiting other positions. Or is it just another non point guard falling into his lap? There is a really good point guard from Iowa coming up in a few years. If he comes here, did Fran suddenly learn how to recruit point guards? Or is it just a case of finally having a good in state point guard to grab?

 

[Hawk5656]

Why does how many he offers matter? And what about the other positions? If there happened to be a stud pg in state that happened to be a huge Iowa fan like Woody, or got hurt like Jok, or was a legacy like Marble, or was a hawk fan who wanted to come home like Uthoff, would Fran miraculously be good at recruiting point guards now? Do you see what I'm saying? He's not "better" at recruiting other positions. It just so happens the right kid haven't happened to fall in his lap like they have at other positions.

Look at all the kids who he's brought in that haven't had ties to Iowa. How is Williams and Cartwright any different than all of those guys besides Cook and White? Williams, Wagner, Besabe, Olaseni, Ellingson, Clemmons, Moss. They are all pretty much in the same category. Fran is "worse" at recruiting point guard because he hasn't had one fall into his lap yet.

If his son ends up being a stud point guard, suddenly he's great at recruiting point guards? Or did a great player fall in his lap. If Weiscamp ends up being really good, it's another example of Fran being good at recruiting other positions. Or is it just another non point guard falling into his lap? There is a really good point guard from Iowa coming up in a few years. If he comes here, did Fran suddenly learn how to recruit point guards? Or is it just a case of finally having a good in state point guard to grab?

I can't believe you're still arguing this when it's obvious Fran hasn't been able to land a stud PG in his time here but has landed stud wings and posts

 

[deanvogs]

I can't believe you're still arguing this when it's obvious Fran hasn't been able to land a stud PG in his time here but has landed stud wings and posts

Fran hasn't landed any studs wing (not one single top 100 kid), He has developed them. Fran has landed a stud top 100 PG, but hasn't developed any PG. Fran has landed 2 stud top 100 posts.

Beating Drake out for Pete Jok, isn't landing a stud wing......It is seeing potential and developing it.

Pretty simple, but keep on trolololololololing away

 

[PCHawk]

Why do you let VintageHawkeye keep trolling you? He lays out two sets of rules about what a "recruiting get" is for differing positions, and blathers on and on about them. He continues to hit me up with the same old trolls on Les Miles, KF, Eno, blah, blah, blah. That is what VintageHawkeye....errrrr.....56 does.

He's only trolling me if he's bothering me. I actually enjoy the conversation. It's slightly better than just talking to myself.

 

[PCHawk]

I can't believe you're still arguing this when it's obvious Fran hasn't been able to land a stud PG in his time here but has landed stud wings and posts

He's had one stud recruit that didn't have Iowa ties and one under the radar kid that ended up really good. Two good recruiting gets is not enough for me to say Fran sucks at recruiting one position and is good at the rest.

 

[deanvogs]

He's only trolling me if he's bothering me. I actually enjoy the conversation. It's slightly better than just talking to myself.

Vin is pretty good at that. He trolls the shit out of you until you snap.....then he kindda soft trolls you to get you to engage again....the he trolls you until you snap again.

He has a particular set of skills. Skills he has acquired over a very long trolling career. Skills that make him a nightmare for people like you and me.

 

[Hawk5656]

Fran hasn't landed any studs wing (not one single top 100 kid), He has developed them. Fran has landed a stud top 100 PG, but hasn't developed any PG. Fran has landed 2 stud top 100 posts.

Beating Drake out for Pete Jok, isn't landing a stud wing......It is seeing potential and developing it.

Pretty simple, but keep on trolololololololing away

So you think Fran has a problem developing PG's but not recruiting them?

 

[PCHawk]

Fran hasn't landed any studs wing (not one single top 100 kid), He has developed them. Fran has landed a stud top 100 PG, but hasn't developed any PG. Fran has landed 2 stud top 100 posts.

Beating Drake out for Pete Jok, isn't landing a stud wing......It is seeing potential and developing it.

Pretty simple, but keep on trolololololololing away

Yep. He has scored 3 great recruits (which is what decides how good of a recruiter you are) and one of them was a point guard.

Here is a list of his great players.

Marble - a legacy that he convinced to stay commited.

White - a kid no one wanted.

Woody - a huge hawk fan that he convinced to stay.

Gesell - a boarder kid who was friends with Woody.

Uthoff - a kid who was unhappy so came home.

Cook - the one really good recruit that had no ties.

How does that list show he is worse at recruiting point guards?

 

[PCHawk]

So you think Fran has a problem developing PG's but not recruiting them?

Possibly. But being 0 for 1 isn't a lot to go off of.

 

[PCHawk]

Vin is pretty good at that. He trolls the shit out of you until you snap.....then he kindda soft trolls you to get you to engage again....the he trolls you until you snap again.

He has a particular set of skills. Skills he has acquired over a very long trolling career. Skills that make him a nightmare for people like you and me.

So is this the soft troll I'm seeing now? I can't tell. If it goes by the more dumb he sounds, tho harder he's trolling, I would say he's trolling pretty hard right now.