MiniMoeHawk
Well-Known Member
Name the best college defender in basketball this year, the last 5 years and since 2000. Do the same for the NBA. I can't wait to see who you think is a good defensive player
Bohannon crow anyone?
- Thread starter DP5555
- Start date
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Shouldn't that hurt the force miss estimation? For example, Melo Trimble could not force Nicholas Baer to miss that shot. I mean, if something is measurable, you have to be able to calculate that into the statistic, right?
And, what if Trimble wasn't guarding Baer on that play? What if Baer had beaten his defender down the court and this shot was over Trimble who was scrambling to cover someone who he was not guarding? Does the defender who gets beat downcourt lose something on his rating, or does Trimble? See how it can be confusing.
On the example I brought up earlier - JBo turnover, resteal by Baer, then step back 3 by JBo - who on Maryland loses on their defensive rating? Who was guarding JBo? Actually, that should probably go against the team's transition defense, right?
Too early to tell this year. Last year I would say Brogdon or Kris Dunn
Yeah he could of, it was a pretty poor close out by Melo actually
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Wait, you said it was a contested shot when I first asked. What could Trimble have done differently if he contested the shot but Baer made it? Please explain.
It was contested but he could have contested it more. He was late getting his hand up but it wasn't like it was an open shot. Any more questions?
Robowe
Well-Known Member
So, that was a contested shot. Should Baer have shot it? Should he only shoot open shots? Or, does he know Trimble is not going to contest it as well as he should have?
And, with a sample of two (so far), someone else said that was not a contested shot. So, who is right? When deciding these defensive stats, who makes the call?
It's only a good result if he makes it. And, more importantly, it was a nice pass by JBo to get the assist.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
No contest.....
Moss and Baer can shoot the ball whenever the mood strikes them as far as I am concerned.....
I do like the rapport that Moss and Bohannon have established. They work very well togather, and I dearly love Isaiah taking it to the rim every time. He has excellent midair body control....
Moss and Baer can shoot the ball whenever the mood strikes them as far as I am concerned.....
I do like the rapport that Moss and Bohannon have established. They work very well togather, and I dearly love Isaiah taking it to the rim every time. He has excellent midair body control....
So, that was a contested shot. Should Baer have shot it? Should he only shoot open shots? Or, does he know Trimble is not going to contest it as well as he should have?
And, with a sample of two (so far), someone else said that was not a contested shot. So, who is right? When deciding these defensive stats, who makes the call?
It's only a good result if he makes it. And, more importantly, it was a nice pass by JBo to get the assist.
Maybe Baer shouldn't have shot it. Maybe he made a low percentage shot like everyone rise does from time to time. If Baer had the second most FG attempts on the team and was shooting 34% from the floor he'd get crucified on here
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Maybe he's being guarded by bigger or quicker players more often so he doesn't get open as often. Maybe the PG noticed that the closest defender was not playing close enough and got him the ball. Lots of maybes involved.
At least you admitted you were crucifying JBo.
So are you saying Gesell had a higher defensive rating by playing with Uthoff than he would have without him? Who would have thought?
Maybe he's being guarded by bigger or quicker players more often so he doesn't get open as often. Maybe the PG noticed that the closest defender was not playing close enough and got him the ball. Lots of maybes involved.
At least you admitted you were crucifying JBo.
I'm not quite sure what this means
Mike was a great defender but keep bashing him
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Seriously? Here's what you said:
If Baer had the second most FG attempts on the team and was shooting 34% from the floor he'd get crucified on here.
So, someone (JBo) has the second most FG attempts on the team and is shooting 34 % from the floor, and you don't know what this means?
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Robowe, you are a better man than me. I just tell 56 how stupid that defensive metric is that he touts......you just absolutely went point by point and destroyed him. I didn't/don't have the patience for that. I can watch a kid play 1 game and I will be a better judge of his defensive ability than this stupid defensive metric would ever be.
Robowe
Well-Known Member
You've had plenty posts like Robowe's that destroyed him too that had to take some serious time. It's fun to read.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Nah, just had a little time today.
I couldn't even seriously begin to debate that defensive rating with him. Anyone (even John Hollindger who created the stat) who looks at it realizes it tells you little to nothing. It only tells you about steals, blocked shots (um, PG don't have many of those) and defensive rebounds (once again not something PG are getting regularly). It is also a function of team D? I mean seriously how can anyone look at how this is calculated and think that paints a picture of ones defensive abilities?
A great example is Gabe and Woody. I loved Gabe, but Gabe wasn't very great defensively. Sure he blocked shots, but he was terribly out of position a lot, and didn't defend nearly as well in the post as Woody did......Yet the "defensive stats" say that Gabe was a considerably better defender than Woody. That simply wasn't the case, and anyone who watched them play knows this.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
It is easy to destroy 56 in an argument because he is taking a stance he really doesn't believe. He says Moss will be good, then say Moss is a clear miss, then changes back to Moss is good. He says that he would be "Thrilled" if Jordan can come close to Mike's offensive numbers.....yet he isn't thrilled when he is already a better career scorer, assist man, and eFG% and TS% than Mike was. He said something that was a complete and total lie to try to make a point (That Jordan couldn't do what Mike did offensively).....That is all easy to destroy in an argument.
