Are you on the moral high ground if you send out fewer offers?

[MelroseHawkins]

Each team has what, 10 coaches, usually they recruit by area. So its not 200 some kids for one guy, that would be 20 per coach ( just for easy numbers). That's not an unreasonable amount to have solid connections with imo.

I realize it's not 200 for one coach. I think you got my point.

 

[RobHowe]

I try to be as objective as I can. And I really respect Iowa's approach when it comes to recruiting, overall.

That said, I do not think it should push this narrative that because it offers fewer kids it's better. Recruiting is a complicated equation with changing variables. An offer today, might not be an offer tomorrow.

It's a business. Schools just need to be morally and ethically responsible in pursuing prospects just like other aspects of the program. Same goes for prospects.

We all know that there are rogues on both sides but there's no need to paint with a broad bush on this one

 

[Hawkfnntn]

As far as answering the OP I don't think there's any moral anything to apply to this. There's no 'better' way to do it within the rules necessarily. All these schools have the same rules and amounts of schollys to offer right? I'm more concerned with how they are coached up/used once they get to campus. To me it's just a strategy that either works or it don't for you. It's cool that there's more then one way to do it and it makes it interesting to talk about. But I draw no moral equivalency to it of any kind.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

There definitely seems to be an advantage to being a first offer. But if you are only the first offer because you offer everyone under the sun, does it really count as a first offer? Can recruits recognize that? Should Iowa use that as negative-recruiting against other schools (notably Neb, ISU, Minn)?

It is an interesting dilemma. Would you rather see Iowa go the Nebraska route, or maintain their current practice of deliberate evaluation prior to an offer?

302 for Michigan? That's a lot of potential sleepovers for Jimmy.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Do you send out 375 as junk mail to most kids or do you send out 200 and really follow up and develop relationships with 100 or so?

I did notice that Iowa many times the last two years was the first to offer many of the athletes. That may be more beneficial in the long run.

In much the same way that offering first is a strategy so is swooping in late and letting others do the leg work on evaluating talent... Michigan and others seem to like doing that with some of our recruits as of late. Iowa has been offering kids committed to other programs they all do it to some extent or another. There's more fingers pointing back at you if one was to start pointing at others on how they do things... Your programs prestige and status account for a ton as well. Just because Saban is who he is and has Bama where they are doesn't mean he can't do what he's doing either..

 

[deanvogs]

I try to be as objective as I can. And I really respect Iowa's approach when it comes to recruiting, overall.

That said, I do not think it should push this narrative that because it offers fewer kids it's better. Recruiting is a complicated equation with changing variables. An offer today, might not be an offer tomorrow.

It's a business. Schools just need to be morally and ethically responsible in pursuing prospects just like other aspects of the program. Same goes for prospects.

We all know that there are rogues on both sides but there's no need to paint with a broad bush on this one

I disagree on this. Iowa should point out to recruits that another school has offered 400 kids if we were in a head to head battle with one of those schools. Why wouldn't you point this out to a kid who you want badly when you are recruiting them? I'm sure other schools point out Iowa's no social media policy (and they should rightfully do that as well if they want to differentiate themselves from Iowa). You don't have to say it is good or bad that they offered 400 kids, but you can point it out and insinuate that you are better because you don't do that. Just like other schools probably insinuate that Iowa wants to shut it's players up because they don't allow tweeting.

It is recruiting, and you use what you can. It isn't like you are lying about that other school having X number of offers out, just like another school wouldn't lie if they said Iowa has a no tweeting policy, but we allow it (if they do allow it). Especially when Iowa tries to put out that it is a family atmosphere, then of course you would tell a kid that hey we identify who we want in our family, we try to be super selective and we want you!

 

[RobHowe]

I disagree on this. Iowa should point out to recruits that another school has offered 400 kids if we were in a head to head battle with one of those schools. Why wouldn't you point this out to a kid who you want badly when you are recruiting them? I'm sure other schools point out Iowa's no social media policy (and they should rightfully do that as well if they want to differentiate themselves from Iowa). You don't have to say it is good or bad that they offered 400 kids, but you can point it out and insinuate that you are better because you don't do that. Just like other schools probably insinuate that Iowa wants to shut it's players up because they don't allow tweeting.

It is recruiting, and you use what you can. It isn't like you are lying about that other school having X number of offers out, just like another school wouldn't lie if they said Iowa has a no tweeting policy, but we allow it (if they do allow it). Especially when Iowa tries to put out that it is a family atmosphere, then of course you would tell a kid that hey we identify who we want in our family, we try to be super selective and we want you!

Offers come and go. That applies to Iowa as well.

See Jirehl Brock and Breece Hall as examples. You can throw Mike Bruner in there as well. Jack Beneventi. Cam Baker. I could go on, but you get the point.

As I wrote, recruiting is fluid with a lot of moving parts. It's complicated.

When you start trying to plant your flag on the hill that you're better than the others because you do it differently, it's just pointless noise. Do your thing. Let others do their thing.

 

[4thngoal]

Offers come and go. That applies to Iowa as well.

See Jirehl Brock and Breece Hall as examples. You can throw Mike Bruner in there as well. Jack Beneventi. Cam Baker. I could go on, but you get the point.

As I wrote, recruiting is fluid with a lot of moving parts. It's complicated.

When you start trying to plant your flag on the hill that you're better than the others because you do it differently, it's just pointless noise. Do your thing. Let others do their thing.

Maybe not moral high ground, but come on, there is a difference between a guy who hits on 20 out of a hundred bets and a guy who hits on 20 out of 400.

 

[deanvogs]

Offers come and go. That applies to Iowa as well.

See Jirehl Brock and Breece Hall as examples. You can throw Mike Bruner in there as well. Jack Beneventi. Cam Baker. I could go on, but you get the point.

As I wrote, recruiting is fluid with a lot of moving parts. It's complicated.

When you start trying to plant your flag on the hill that you're better than the others because you do it differently, it's just pointless noise. Do your thing. Let others do their thing.

Who said anything about "planting a flag"? You are simply trying to sell what it is that differentiate you from other programs. What is wrong with selling your program? What would be wrong with saying this to a recruit?

Iowa: So we would like to extend you an scholarship offer to play football at the University of Iowa

Recruit: Oh my God, that is great, thank you so much!

Iowa: You know that we are very selective in who we offer our scholarships to. We want Iowa to be a family type atmosphere, so we take it very seriously deciding on what players we extend scholarship offers to in this process. We can't speak as to how other programs decide to offer players, but here at Iowa we don't extend very many offers, and we are going to keep it that way.

It doesn't have to be slimy, it doesn't have to be underhanded. It can simply be a very matter of fact statement of how you like to go about running your program. Iowa isn't saying they don't move on from kids. Iowa isn't saying that they don't reevaluate players. It can simply and honestly be said that Iowa is more selective in the offerieng process than 90% of other P5 programs (or whatever the actual % is).

 

[deanvogs]

Maybe not moral high ground, but come on, there is a difference between a guy who hits on 20 out of a hundred bets and a guy who hits on 20 out of 400.

You would be absolutely stupid if you were the Iowa coaches and you didn't point this out to every player that you offer. It is something that absolutely differentiates you from your competition, and you would be negligent if you didn't use that on the recruiting trail.

 

[RobHowe]

There's a difference between sharing it with recruits and having your recruiting coordinator and director of recruiting splash it out on Twitter today or your offensive coordinator say it on the radio while tearing down some of your main competitors for prospects.

That's what I meant by planting your flag. It also just gives the competition a chance to prepare a solid defense of how it does it should that come up with a recruit.

As someone who does this for a living, I also don't think it matters that much to recruits. There are a lot more important things to consider.

 

[CP87]

Offers come and go. That applies to Iowa as well.

See Jirehl Brock and Breece Hall as examples. You can throw Mike Bruner in there as well. Jack Beneventi. Cam Baker. I could go on, but you get the point.

As I wrote, recruiting is fluid with a lot of moving parts. It's complicated.

When you start trying to plant your flag on the hill that you're better than the others because you do it differently, it's just pointless noise. Do your thing. Let others do their thing.

Obviously there is not a single school for which # offers = # of available scholarships, so every offer has a touch of bologna to it. So when Iowa offers 4 RBs for 2 RB spots, does it explicitly say there are 4 offers out, and the first 2 that accept get them? Or is that just suicide to be that honest? Do they tell let each kid believe they are wanted more than any other?

 

[deanvogs]

I just don't think it matters much. ISU offers a ton of kids and whenever they select ISU over schools that have historically had more success, they always cite the relationship with the coaches and Campbell. I think just the straight # of offers must not always reflect the actual relationship being developed with your top targets.

I never said it was bad what ISU does. I have no idea if it helps them, hurts them, or is in fact doesn't matter one way or another. I am just saying if you CHOOSE to operate in one or the other extreme, then at least try to use it to your advantage. For instance:

Recruit: Coach Campbell, why is it that you have offered 400 kids in this class, why should I want to come and play for you if you don't value me that much?

Coach Campbell: That isn't true at all that we don't value you, we very much want you to be apart of our program. We are simply trying to build the very best championship caliber program that we can, and that means we are offering the best HS players in the country an opportunity to be apart of our program. We view you as one of the best HS players in the country and that is why we have offered you that opportunity at well.

In the end, like Rob said I doubt it make much difference one way or another, kids are probably putting personal relationship over how many kids are offered (high or low numbers) anyway.

 

[CP87]

I just don't think it matters much. ISU offers a ton of kids and whenever they select ISU over schools that have historically had more success, they always cite the relationship with the coaches and Campbell. I think just the straight # of offers must not always reflect the actual relationship being developed with your top targets.

It is probably as @lightning1 said, many schools use the "offer" as their opening move. What happens from there, from both the kid's and program's perspective, determines if that offer actually becomes legit or not.

 

[deanvogs]

There's a difference between sharing it with recruits and having your recruiting coordinator and director of recruiting splash it out on Twitter today or your offensive coordinator say it on the radio while tearing down some of your main competitors for prospects.

That's what I meant by planting your flag. It also just gives the competition a chance to prepare a solid defense of how it does it should that come up with a recruit.

As someone who does this for a living, I also don't think it matters that much to recruits. There are a lot more important things to consider.

Welp once again I disagree with you. As I said to BryceC, if you operate at one of the extreme's then absolutely use it on twitter, use it on the radio to point out the differences between yourself from the competition. I doubt most kids care that much anyway, but the ones that do it can make a difference, so why not use it?

As someone who does work in recruiting for a living, I think you don't understand what it is to actually compete for a living. I own a business, and if I can't convince people to use me, then I don't have a business. I point out what it is that we do, why we do it, and why they should select my company all the time. I don't rip on my competitors , but I absolutely point out our differences. We promote those differences in print, online and in person, it would be silly not to. Why should the Iowa coaches run or hide from the way they operate? It is different than most, you can either let that pigeon hole you, or you can take the bull by the horns and let it define you in a good way by leading the narrative.

 

[deanvogs]

It is probably as @lightning1 said, many schools use the "offer" as their opening move. What happens from there, from both the kid's and program's perspective, determines if that offer actually becomes legit or not.

I think some are mistaking what I am saying here. I'm not saying Iowa's way is better, I'm saying if that is the way you are choosing to recruit, then try to use it as a selling point. I absolutely think Iowa misses out on out of state recruits by not offering more of them and sooner. Kids aren't going to want to travel from Georgia just to ultimately not even get an offer, especially on their own dime. I wouldn't mind at all if Iowa offered 100 kids more per cycle just to get an opportunity to get visits from some of these kids.

 

[RobHowe]

Covering recruiting his

Welp once again I disagree with you. As I said to BryceC, if you operate at one of the extreme's then absolutely use it on twitter, use it on the radio to point out the differences between yourself from the competition. I doubt most kids care that much anyway, but the ones that do it can make a difference, so why not use it?

As someone who does work in recruiting for a living, I think you don't understand what it is to actually compete for a living. I own a business, and if I can't convince people to use me, then I don't have a business. I point out what it is that we do, why we do it, and why they should select my company all the time. I don't rip on my competitors , but I absolutely point out our differences. We promote those differences in print, online and in person, it would be silly not to. Why should the Iowa coaches run or hide from the way they operate? It is different than most, and you can either let that pigeon hole you, or you can take the bull by the horns and let it define you in a good way by leading the narrative.

We'll have to agree to disagree here, Dean. Pretty swamped today preparing for signing day and having to cover a basketball game tonight.

BTW, journalism, especially the current landscape, is an extremely competitive business. If you're on social media at all, you will see outlets pimping their content as "the best" or "all you need." If you believe that, I have some swampland to sell you. It's smoke and mirrors.

I've been working for media outlets going on 30 years. It's always been competitive. You're trying to break news, a term that has lost a lot of meaning.

I get it. We're in a day and age of branding. LOOK AT ME!

This topic is just another example.

 

[THawk122]

How much does the early signing period affect this. Teams wanting to get after kids sooner so more offers come flying out?

 

[deanvogs]

Covering recruiting his


We'll have to agree to disagree here, Dean. Pretty swamped today preparing for signing day and having to cover a basketball game tonight.

BTW, journalism, especially the current landscape, is an extremely competitive business. If you're on social media at all, you will see outlets pimping their content as "the best" or "all you need." If you believe that, I have some swampland to sell you. It's smoke and mirrors.

I've been working for media outlets going on 30 years. It's always been competitive. You're trying to break news, a term that has lost a lot of meaning.

I get it. We're in a day and age of branding. LOOK AT ME!

This topic is just another example.

Fair enough, and you make a great point about reporting. I will say that it wouldn't shock me to see you say that you DON'T do the look at me reporting, and you would probably RIGHTFULLY differentiating yourself from the competition.

BTW thanks for all your recruiting coverage and the work you do, I wan't trying to belittle what you do, as I have always enjoyed your coverage of the Hawks! Now get back to work and stop wasting time on message boards!

 

[RobHowe]

Fair enough, and you make a great point about reporting. I will say that it wouldn't shock me to see you say that you DON'T do the look at me reporting, and you would probably RIGHTFULLY differentiating yourself from the competition.

BTW thanks for all your recruiting coverage and the work you do, I wan't trying to belittle what you do, as I have always enjoyed your coverage of the Hawks! Now get back to work and stop wasting time on message boards!

I play the game up to a point. I try to make my content as enticing as possible on social media or when posting on here with headlines or tag lines. We have to pay the bills.

Thanks for the kind words and being here. That goes for most of you.

OK. Now back to work.