I would assume he thought Mike sucked last year. Now he's arguing that he was good as a way to rip on the team for regressing. It's all about making the present look bad.
Are we the third best team in Iowa?
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I would assume he thought Mike sucked last year. Now he's arguing that he was good as a way to rip on the team for regressing. It's all about making the present look bad.
If you have a better offensive rating I think you are the better offensive player if things are comparable. Saying Wagner was better offensively than Uthoff last year because he had a better offensive rating doesn't make sense but when you're comparing two similar situations I think it's the best way to determine. PER is a really good stat, probably the best out there actually but I don't even bring it up anymore because it's not worth arguing with you about it since you say it shouldn't count for some reason
I never once said Mike sucked last year but nice try. I said our guard play wasn't great last year because it wasn't but Mike was above average
Mike averaged more ppg on less shots as a freshman that Jordan has.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Look, stats are like poll numbers. They are neat to look at, but they don't ever tell you the whole story. There are things within the game of basketball that can not be quantified by statistics. Everyone can agree to that right? You guys want to keep bitching about stats and I think it's stupid because the fact is any Joe Schmo can find a stat that supports his argument, and then whomever he's arguing with can find a stat that supports his. It's ridiculously dumb.
The pg position can be played so many different ways. The game of basketball can be played so many different ways. I think Iowa fans in general were thrilled to see Mike become a Hawk because it was clear he had loads of talent. I also think it's fair to say most Hawk fans would agree he didn't really improve throughout his career like most of us had hoped. He was a solid PG. No doubt about that. However, he played a ton of minutes and games throughout his career because he was starting as a freshman. That makes his assist numbers look the way they do. When you break them down to an individual game basis they are pretty poor for a PG. That isn't bashing Mike. That's the truth. I think he would probably agree with the opinion that he didn't improve throughout his career as much as he himself had hoped. One thing that was consistent about Mike was the fact that he was subpar distributing the basketball, he made poor decisions in crunch time, he could get to the rim but he struggled mightily to finish at the rim, he wasn't a very good three point shooter, and he was downright horrible from the free throw line when the pressure was on him.
That's the way I will remember Mike. Now, he's a Hawk. I'm a huge Hawk fan. For that reason I will always have respect for that young man. He played his heart out for the Hawks, and by all accounts he is a tremendous person. I have no reason to want to bash the kid. That's just my observation on his career at Iowa. Overall I was somewhat letdown. He played solid defense and had a nice elbow jumper. Otherwise he struggled to get others involved, and he really struggled to make shots and execute the game plan when it mattered the most. There's way to many games where he just completely lost it in the final couple of minutes. Those are the minutes when you need your PG to lead! Those are the minutes when you need your PG to be the guy who settles everyone down and executes the offense. Those are the minutes when you want your PG to get fouled because he's the guy on the court who is going to knock down those damn free throws! Those are things that can not be quantified by a god damn statistic. So get out of here with that BS.
This Iowa team, and the teams coming down the pipeline, do not need an elite playmaker at PG. I think Bohannon will fit the team perfectly. He makes big shots. He's very consistent at the free throw line. His assist numbers are damn good for a true freshman PG. He's not a great defender, but he's proven these last couple of games that he is more than capable of being decent at that end of the floor.
The pg position can be played so many different ways. The game of basketball can be played so many different ways. I think Iowa fans in general were thrilled to see Mike become a Hawk because it was clear he had loads of talent. I also think it's fair to say most Hawk fans would agree he didn't really improve throughout his career like most of us had hoped. He was a solid PG. No doubt about that. However, he played a ton of minutes and games throughout his career because he was starting as a freshman. That makes his assist numbers look the way they do. When you break them down to an individual game basis they are pretty poor for a PG. That isn't bashing Mike. That's the truth. I think he would probably agree with the opinion that he didn't improve throughout his career as much as he himself had hoped. One thing that was consistent about Mike was the fact that he was subpar distributing the basketball, he made poor decisions in crunch time, he could get to the rim but he struggled mightily to finish at the rim, he wasn't a very good three point shooter, and he was downright horrible from the free throw line when the pressure was on him.
That's the way I will remember Mike. Now, he's a Hawk. I'm a huge Hawk fan. For that reason I will always have respect for that young man. He played his heart out for the Hawks, and by all accounts he is a tremendous person. I have no reason to want to bash the kid. That's just my observation on his career at Iowa. Overall I was somewhat letdown. He played solid defense and had a nice elbow jumper. Otherwise he struggled to get others involved, and he really struggled to make shots and execute the game plan when it mattered the most. There's way to many games where he just completely lost it in the final couple of minutes. Those are the minutes when you need your PG to lead! Those are the minutes when you need your PG to be the guy who settles everyone down and executes the offense. Those are the minutes when you want your PG to get fouled because he's the guy on the court who is going to knock down those damn free throws! Those are things that can not be quantified by a god damn statistic. So get out of here with that BS.
This Iowa team, and the teams coming down the pipeline, do not need an elite playmaker at PG. I think Bohannon will fit the team perfectly. He makes big shots. He's very consistent at the free throw line. His assist numbers are damn good for a true freshman PG. He's not a great defender, but he's proven these last couple of games that he is more than capable of being decent at that end of the floor.
"One thing that was consistent about Mike was the fact he was subpar distributing the basketball" might be the dumbest thing I've ever read on here. Congrats! Haha
The thing is, there is absolutely no way to tell which player is better at this point. Maybe Mike is a little better, maybe JB is slightly better, or maybe they're exactly the same. If I was arguing that JB was way better, there would be people on here telling me I was wrong. That's because the one thing for sure is that they are very comparable.
Since they played on different teams and have different rolls, and since Mikes freshman year was 4 years ago so there is no way memory is exactly accurate, it's impossible to decide who is actually better.
Since they played on different teams and have different rolls, and since Mikes freshman year was 4 years ago so there is no way memory is exactly accurate, it's impossible to decide who is actually better.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
JB has twice the number of assists per game right now than MG did as a true freshman! If MG was an elite distributor of the basketball what is that going to make JB? Gesell's senior year he would have been near the top 20 currently in the country in assists. 6.2 per game is what he averaged last year. That's pretty good, but overall it doesn't tell the whole story about him and you know it. You can cherry pick that if you want to, but like I said that's all you're doing. You aren't looking at the big picture.
What about late end of game situations where Mike completely disappeared? Is that not important to you in a PG? Do you not agree that it's the PG's responsibility to execute the offense and get good shots?
Saying Mike was subpar at distributing the ball is one of the smartest thongs I've read on here.
Mike is 3rd in school history in career in assists, calling him a subpar distributor is literally the dumbest thing I've ever read on here.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
If you want to be a top program you need a top PG. Indiana State made the NC game with out an elite PG, but they had Larry Bird and the game wasn't close. When Iowa made the final 4 last, the point guards that got there had as Guards, Ronnie Lester, Daryl Griffith, Rod Rocket Foster and Keith Edmunson. 2 were shooting guards and 2 were among the quickest Pt Guards ever.
Without Lester, the Hawks were solidly decent but not spectacular. Purdue had an inside game with Carroll and 1 other guy along with a high level shooting guard at 6'5. 4 of Louisville's started ended up in NBA, but I don't think their point guard. Daryl was a big time threat to drive to the hoop.
Can a team do well without an elite pg...yes. But they'd better have other elite type players. Going back to the big upset of the Alford team, my memory is that the opponent went to quick street ball and Iowa had no answers.
It somewhat depends on what one's goal is. Win the Big 10 and a regional? Do respectable and get to the dance?
as a Frosh, Boh will get tested in the Big. Uni's guard made him look silly a few times. In a game you usually don't see picks that bad. Again he is a Freshman. Not sure how strong the guards are in the Big this year. IL may be a good measuring stick. Great guards, terrible in the middle. Michigan will always have well coached guards. PSU always has a UNI type pt guard. Haven't seen Minny play.
Without Lester, the Hawks were solidly decent but not spectacular. Purdue had an inside game with Carroll and 1 other guy along with a high level shooting guard at 6'5. 4 of Louisville's started ended up in NBA, but I don't think their point guard. Daryl was a big time threat to drive to the hoop.
Can a team do well without an elite pg...yes. But they'd better have other elite type players. Going back to the big upset of the Alford team, my memory is that the opponent went to quick street ball and Iowa had no answers.
It somewhat depends on what one's goal is. Win the Big 10 and a regional? Do respectable and get to the dance?
as a Frosh, Boh will get tested in the Big. Uni's guard made him look silly a few times. In a game you usually don't see picks that bad. Again he is a Freshman. Not sure how strong the guards are in the Big this year. IL may be a good measuring stick. Great guards, terrible in the middle. Michigan will always have well coached guards. PSU always has a UNI type pt guard. Haven't seen Minny play.
Well technically, Mike didn't start falling apart until early in his sophomore year. So when comparing them as freshmen, you can't factor that in. But comparing them when Mike was a senior you can factor that in. That's why I said we won't miss Mike at point, and I still feel that way. We would probably have the same record with Mike because even if we were in position to win some of the games we lost, he probably would have found a way to lose.
Where's he at in assists per game? Isn't that statement a little more relevant?
4.2 assists per game in 26 mpg
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Look at the number of games he played! Good grief. It isn't that difficult. He's that high on the list because of how many games he played in his career at Iowa not because he was an elite distributor.
AGAIN YOU'RE IGNORING THE PART ABOUT HIS LATE GAME MELTDOWNS! Stop cherry picking and look at the big picture. This is exactly why you're a troll.
I don't agree with needing an elite point guard. You need elite players. It doesn't matter what position they play. For every example of an elite team winning with an elite point guard, there are a bunch of other examples of elite teams without elite lite point guards.
I mean in the Hawkeye record books.
Aaron White is the second best scorer in Iowa history. Just look at the record books, they will tell you.
He melted down in games at the end and he made some big plays at the end of games too. I never said he was some clutch player but to say he was a subpar distributor is going to be hard to top for dumbest thing said on here
No idea