Andrew Francis

[Hawkfnntn]

I think that's where guys like Horner Oliver and Gatens especially are looked into as guys that wouldnt use Iowa as a stepping stone gig but as their dream gig. But in todays world there's no guarantees. ISU sincerely thought the Mayor was going to be there as long as coach K has been at Duke. Yet he had his cup of coffee and bailed. If youd have told ISU fans 5 yrs ago he'd end up at Nebraska they'd have all blown a gasket.

 

[oldhawk12]

You care so much about national relevance why? I'm mean sure it would be great, but why is it the only thing that would bring you satisfaction?

Personally I wish for more ambition from our President and Athletic department, but that does not mean that I spit upon the sturdy foundation. I appreciate Kirk's brand of ho hum a bit more than Fran's, but I congratulate both for not being abject failures.

In no way shape or form do I accept your premise that getting a basketball coach that is using Iowa to land a better gig is worthwhile. Even if said coach does achieve greatness in a short period of time the simple history of college basketball overwhelmingly indicates that after the successful short term coach follows a trail of tears. I'm not the least interested in pursuing a coach every 3 years. Having our cake and eating it too should not be unachievable. There is no reason that we can't just pony up the cash to land a legend coach and then keep paying him to keep him here. Dynasties are not built with new Emporers every year. They are built by strong leadership over long periods of time.


You maybe willing to sell Iowa basketball down the river so you can have 1 more bucket list year of Bball, but I am not. I support moving on from Fran, but I believe quite firmly that we should always be looking and incentivizing a great coach to come here to stay while building a dynasty and a legacy.

You, of course, miss the point. I’m not rooting for someone to come in and nationalize our football or basketball program, recruit at a higher level and then leave, but if that’s the price of success, I say that’s a healthy thing. What I don’t like is the staus quo thing, woe is me crap and just being ok with our place in the world because “we likely won’t do any better” nonsense. And the pointing to Illinois, Minnesota, etc. who cares. It isn’t an either or situation anyway. We have way more resources and tradition than others that have failed. You keep on trying if it doesn’t work. You don’t just settle for someone and say that’s your lot in life.

 

[Adam]

You, of course, miss the point. I’m not rooting for someone to come in and nationalize our football or basketball program, recruit at a higher level and then leave, but if that’s the price of success, I say that’s a healthy thing. What I don’t like is the staus quo thing, woe is me crap and just being ok with our place in the world because “we likely won’t do any better” nonsense. And the pointing to Illinois, Minnesota, etc. who cares. It isn’t an either or situation anyway. We have way more resources and tradition than others that have failed. You keep on trying if it doesn’t work. You don’t just settle for someone and say that’s your lot in life.

The reason that both coaches are still employed at Iowa is because national relevance is not actually the main priority for the University. Graduating and enriching the lives of student athletes is the main priority for the University. These things matter too. You are a fan. Nothing more. What you desire means precious little to the University of Iowa. If you don't like it or understand it then by all means don't settle, change your lot in life.

 

[oldhawk12]

The reason that both coaches are still employed at Iowa is because national relevance is not actually the main priority for the University. Graduating and enriching the lives of student athletes is the main priority for the University. These things matter too. You are a fan. Nothing more. What you desire means precious little to the University of Iowa. If you don't like it or understand it then by all means don't settle, change your lot in life.

We have our answer. And this is why we are what we are and it is what I’ve been saying all along. We don’t want to be better. The feeling is it is “either/or” and if you take a larger step, it’s too dangerous. So, there you have it folks.

 

[Tierney]

I agree that what I desire means precious little to the University. Ferentz shaking up his staff, hiring his son, and the football team going into a dive for two years meant a lot more to the University. Anyway, the reason it means precious little to the University is because they are going to make their money either way. Graduating and enhancing the lives of the student athletes should be the main focus, but I doubt the student athletes at Iowa aren't getting the attention they deserve. Maybe they should be paid though. Fran has upped his recruiting efforts on four and five star kids, so I doubt he doesn't want to win in a big way especially with his two sons in the program. The fact of the matter is its a lot harder to win at Iowa than at Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan, and probably most of the conference schools. When you consider everything involved, although I get disappointed with the program, I think Fran is doing a good job. That's not to say he is the best coach in the basketball world.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Eventually "red hot up and comers" become old or they move on. So I don't think its a realistic standard to set. Realistically there are maybe 5 "red hot up and comers" and a whole lot of duds (ie: PJ Fleck)

Also, there was one time when Iowa chased the "red hot up and comer" and gave us Steve Alford. So be careful what you wish for

This.

 

[Adam]

We have our answer. And this is why we are what we are and it is what I’ve been saying all along. We don’t want to be better. The feeling is it is “either/or” and if you take a larger step, it’s too dangerous. So, there you have it folks.

Most Iowa fans are from Iowa. While Iowans are not all of the same mind the vast majority want the program to be wholesome and successful. The success that your crying for is the kind that either comes from pure cosmic luck or the kind that comes from cheating. Which breeds systemic abuse of rules and power. There are no national championships for Iowa basketball or football without one of the 2.

This is what you don't seem to understand. Your ironically juvenile premise that sheer desire for greatness or non acceptance of above average is all that's necessary to be great is frankly laughable. You have no real idea's or solutions. You don't analyze the hundreds of variables and their relation to each other. You give no creedence to limiting factors that contradict your narrow perspective. You speak as if our level of success is trash and not worthy of maintaining. You claim that we should throw caution to the wind in the pursuit of some mythical higher place because what we have now is not valuable. To me your views have no basis in reality. They appear to stem from delusions of grandeur.

In response to my berating I anticipate that you will again attempt to sadly lecture us simple folks on our flawed logic. You will rationalize it with your implied wisdom from achieving so much greatness yourself. You certainly must have accomplished countless insurmountable tasks.

So before you waste more of our time I encourage you to lay before us the proof of your many great accomplishments in this life. Please indulge us with your tales of glory. The ones in which you base your lectures of achieving greatness. Help me to see the errors of my ways.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

The reason that both coaches are still employed at Iowa is because national relevance is not actually the main priority for the University. Graduating and enriching the lives of student athletes is the main priority for the University. These things matter too. You are a fan. Nothing more. What you desire means precious little to the University of Iowa. If you don't like it or understand it then by all means don't settle, change your lot in life.

i didn't realize the B1G network paid iowa

I agree that what I desire means precious little to the University. Ferentz shaking up his staff, hiring his son, and the football team going into a dive for two years meant a lot more to the University. Anyway, the reason it means precious little to the University is because they are going to make their money either way. Graduating and enhancing the lives of the student athletes should be the main focus, but I doubt the student athletes at Iowa aren't getting the attention they deserve. Maybe they should be paid though. Fran has upped his recruiting efforts on four and five star kids, so I doubt he doesn't want to win in a big way especially with his two sons in the program. The fact of the matter is its a lot harder to win at Iowa than at Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan, and probably most of the conference schools. When you consider everything involved, although I get disappointed with the program, I think Fran is doing a good job. That's not to say he is the best coach in the basketball world.

i would only point out that in the beginning, it was not easier to win at IU, UM, OSU, etc, etc. they wanted it, went out and got it and established it. george raveling brought the most and best talent to iowa that iowa has (arguably) ever seen. it can be done. that talent ol' george brought in competed on the level of every blue blood school in the nation during that time frame. the 20 seasons Mr. Davis was here, the talent level didn't remain the same.

 

[oldhawk12]

Most Iowa fans are from Iowa. While Iowans are not all of the same mind the vast majority want the program to be wholesome and successful. The success that your crying for is the kind that either comes from pure cosmic luck or the kind that comes from cheating. Which breeds systemic abuse of rules and power. There are no national championships for Iowa basketball or football without one of the 2.

This is what you don't seem to understand. Your ironically juvenile premise that sheer desire for greatness or non acceptance of above average is all that's necessary to be great is frankly laughable. You have no real idea's or solutions. You don't analyze the hundreds of variables and their relation to each other. You give no creedence to limiting factors that contradict your narrow perspective. You speak as if our level of success is trash and not worthy of maintaining. You claim that we should throw caution to the wind in the pursuit of some mythical higher place because what we have now is not valuable. To me your views have no basis in reality. They appear to stem from delusions of grandeur.

In response to my berating I anticipate that you will again attempt to sadly lecture us simple folks on our flawed logic. You will rationalize it with your implied wisdom from achieving so much greatness yourself. You certainly must have accomplished countless insurmountable tasks.

So before you waste more of our time I encourage you to lay before us the proof of your many great accomplishments in this life. Please indulge us with your tales of glory. The ones in which you base your lectures of achieving greatness. Help me to see the errors of my ways.

Your post makes me want to vomit. Quit acting like you are speaking for the entire fanbase because you are not. You are speaking for yourself. Same as me. I didn’t read past the first paragraph because that one alone was full of nonsense. It isn’t an “either/or” situation. But taking the safe route is not even trying in my book and it’s that part that I’ve grown tired of with all the excuses and woe is me nonsense. Kf carries the torch for that crowd and mindset. It works better for him and his agenda

 

[Northside Hawk]

i didn't realize the B1G network paid iowa


i would only point out that in the beginning, it was not easier to win at IU, UM, OSU, etc, etc. they wanted it, went out and got it and established it. george raveling brought the most and best talent to iowa that iowa has (arguably) ever seen. it can be done. that talent ol' george brought in competed on the level of every blue blood school in the nation during that time frame. the 20 seasons Mr. Davis was here, the talent level didn't remain the same.

It can be done, but George wasn't the only one bringing it in. Ralph Miller was doing it and it culminated in the 1970 team. Our teams from 1956-62 could be considered near blue blood level and that was with Connie Hawkins never playing a game in an Iowa uniform.

 

[HawkGold]

The reason that both coaches are still employed at Iowa is because national relevance is not actually the main priority for the University. Graduating and enriching the lives of student athletes is the main priority for the University. These things matter too. You are a fan. Nothing more. What you desire means precious little to the University of Iowa. If you don't like it or understand it then by all means don't settle, change your lot in life.

Naive

 

[HawkGold]

Most Iowa fans are from Iowa. While Iowans are not all of the same mind the vast majority want the program to be wholesome and successful. The success that your crying for is the kind that either comes from pure cosmic luck or the kind that comes from cheating. Which breeds systemic abuse of rules and power. There are no national championships for Iowa basketball or football without one of the 2.

This is what you don't seem to understand. Your ironically juvenile premise that sheer desire for greatness or non acceptance of above average is all that's necessary to be great is frankly laughable. You have no real idea's or solutions. You don't analyze the hundreds of variables and their relation to each other. You give no creedence to limiting factors that contradict your narrow perspective. You speak as if our level of success is trash and not worthy of maintaining. You claim that we should throw caution to the wind in the pursuit of some mythical higher place because what we have now is not valuable. To me your views have no basis in reality. They appear to stem from delusions of grandeur.

In response to my berating I anticipate that you will again attempt to sadly lecture us simple folks on our flawed logic. You will rationalize it with your implied wisdom from achieving so much greatness yourself. You certainly must have accomplished countless insurmountable tasks.

So before you waste more of our time I encourage you to lay before us the proof of your many great accomplishments in this life. Please indulge us with your tales of glory. The ones in which you base your lectures of achieving greatness. Help me to see the errors of my ways.

In your naivety you miss a lot of things. You leave out the Lori Laughlin syndrome. You will naively assume that because we are Iowa that Im saying Iowa doesnt do that.

2 very mediocre coaches. Almost worst punter 2 years. Nonsense salaries and bonuses and buyouts. Man in control making far less.

Ya its about the players having a rich experience like taking care of a football player who donated his future thru concussions and got booted off for bad decisions when the medical profession knows brain injury destroys impulse control and that pot does help concussions. Also a program that tied to say that they only half a concussion once a year or something like that.

Ya we are mediocre due to athlete luv. Its rational.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Lute Olson was the very definition of a "red hot up and comer". So was Forrest Evashevski. They had aspirations that didn't include staying at Iowa, but they didn't shortchange us when they were here.

Alford was hired for the long haul, at least in Bowlsby's eyes. I think Steve convinced Bob that he could be a lifer. Didn't work that way.

It's a risk I'm willing to take when Kirk and Fran move on or retire. I'm also aware of what's happened at Illinois so the powers that be would have to be careful. But I believe that true greatness at Iowa can only be achieved in short spurts. We will never be a brand at the highest level decade in decade out like the blue bloods.

Lute left behind some hard feelings. And from what we've learned over the years, Arizona athletics isn't necessarily concerned with "do it the right way". But he was great coach when "happy".

Evy, on the other hand, gave indication that things "changed" in recruiting. I can guess what those changes were. And what he did as AD pretty much nullifies any success he had as a coach. It's almost a miracle Bump Elliott achieved success given his rocky start and his connection to scUM (which Evy also had).

 

[ArvadaHawk]

It can be done, but George wasn't the only one bringing it in. Ralph Miller was doing it and it culminated in the 1970 team. Our teams from 1956-62 could be considered near blue blood level and that was with Connie Hawkins never playing a game in an Iowa uniform.

no, that's a really good point and you're absolutely correct. it can be done at iowa. why there is no commitment to become a higher level program, i don't know. actually, it is probably what drove lute olsen to AZ. lute was connected very well to chicago, as i recall.

 

[Northside Hawk]

no, that's a really good point and you're absolutely correct. it can be done at iowa. why there is no commitment to become a higher level program, i don't know. actually, it is probably what drove lute olsen to AZ. lute was connected very well to chicago, as i recall.

Nadine Lester, who was a close friend of Bobbi Olson, and Mary Thomas (mother of Isiah and big fan of Lute) were our unofficial Chicago recruiters. They spread the word around the Chicago public league about Iowa. We got a few out of there in Lutes latter years, like Andre Banks. But Illinois' assistant Jimmy Collins was starting to "establish" his connection with King and Simeon high schools, and soon other public league players had a thrid cousin's sisters's ex boyfriend's aunt who lived in those districts. So they moved to King or Simeon. And Illinois got a bunch of those players.

You could rattle off eight or ten reasons why Lute left and they're all probably true. Losing the public league, where he once got Lester and Kenny Arnold and came very close to getting Isiah Thomas, may havqe been another reason.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Lute left behind some hard feelings. And from what we've learned over the years, Arizona athletics isn't necessarily concerned with "do it the right way". But he was great coach when "happy".

Evy, on the other hand, gave indication that things "changed" in recruiting. I can guess what those changes were. And what he did as AD pretty much nullifies any success he had as a coach. It's almost a miracle Bump Elliott achieved success given his rocky start and his connection to scUM (which Evy also had).

What Evy did as AD (nearly destroy Iowa athletics) must absolutely be duly noted, but I was focusing strictly on his coaching career, when he made life miserable for Woody Hayes and Duffy Daughtery, not to mention Bump himself for couple years. But man what a cesspool around 1972-1973. Bump Elliott deserves more credit than he has ever gotten. The state of our department back then was similiar to Wisconsin in 1990 when Alvarez was hired and they had to cut seven sports. I mean, Minnesota was kicking our ass on the field, the court, the sideline, and in recruiting in the early seventies. Nebraska was getting many of the best in state football players that weren't going to Ames during the Johnny Majors/Earle Bruce eras.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

no, that's a really good point and you're absolutely correct. it can be done at iowa. why there is no commitment to become a higher level program, i don't know. actually, it is probably what drove lute olsen to AZ. lute was connected very well to chicago, as i recall.

He was no more connected in Chicago than Knight. He did get Ronnie Lester, but there were a ton he didn't get, too. Rickey Green, Mark Aguirre, Isaiah Thomas, Darius Clemons, Levi Cobb, Terry Cummings, Teddy Grubbs, Doc Rivers, Sol White, to name but one bunch.

Lute hated the "fish bowl" effect of being in Iowa City. Some of his pressers his last season were painful to watch.

Raveling, of course, got guys from everywhere BUT Chicago, as Lou Henson and the boys in the Public League had set up their little "arrangement" by then. But he felt Iowa City was a little "slow" in adapting to a Black head coach (he later admitted not giving his time in Iowa City a chance to develop).

Lute had one Final Four (1980) and one Sweet Sixteen (1983). He had a losing season in year 4. He had a conference title. Well, actually, a three-way tie. Which, as we know from the standards applied to KF in football, doesn't "count". First round flameouts to Toledo in 1979 and Wichita State in 1981. In 1981 they had the conference title in hand, but lost two in a row. In 1982 they started 19-3, then finished 21-8, losing in the second round. Sound familiar?

Raveling had a sub-500 season, a first round flameout blowing a lead against Arkansas. That season the team sat, at one point, at 19-4. They finished the season 21-11 with that first-round flameout. His last year, after starting 13-4, they finished 20-12. With, of course, another first-round loss. Sound familiar?

 

[Hawknigh]

Your post makes me want to vomit. Quit acting like you are speaking for the entire fanbase because you are not. You are speaking for yourself. Same as me. I didn’t read past the first paragraph because that one alone was full of nonsense. It isn’t an “either/or” situation. But taking the safe route is not even trying in my book and it’s that part that I’ve grown tired of with all the excuses and woe is me nonsense. Kf carries the torch for that crowd and mindset. It works better for him and his agenda

What school would be an example of having done what you would like to see? A school that decided to change from consistent medium success and go for top-notch success in football. Baylor seems to have tried.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Nadine Lester, who was a close friend of Bobbi Olson, and Mary Thomas (mother of Isiah and big fan of Lute) were our unofficial Chicago recruiters. They spread the word around the Chicago public league about Iowa. We got a few out of there in Lutes latter years, like Andre Banks. But Illinois' assistant Jimmy Collins was starting to "establish" his connection with King and Simeon high schools, and soon other public league players had a thrid cousin's sisters's ex boyfriend's aunt who lived in those districts. So they moved to King or Simeon. And Illinois got a bunch of those players.

You could rattle off eight or ten reasons why Lute left and they're all probably true. Losing the public league, where he once got Lester and Kenny Arnold and came very close to getting Isiah Thomas, may havqe been another reason.

He lost out on more than Isaiah. He lost Terry Cummings, Teddy Grubbs, Russell Cross, Mark Aguirre and a host of others. Believe it or not, coaches recruited the Public League heavily before Lute came along.

Banks, by the way, was a product not of the Public League, but of the Catholic League, like Krafcisin and Boyle. That league had its own formidable set of teams and players.

Oddly, Raveling didn't seem to "push" the Public League, but did just fine going to Peoria, Springfield, et. al.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

What school would be an example of having done what you would like to see? A school that decided to change from consistent medium success and go for top-notch success in football. Baylor seems to have tried.

One that doesn't have an "agenda" like KF, of course!