Andrew Francis

[hawkeyebob62]

What Evy did as AD (nearly destroy Iowa athletics) must absolutely be duly noted, but I was focusing strictly on his coaching career, when he made life miserable for Woody Hayes and Duffy Daughtery, not to mention Bump himself for couple years. But man what a cesspool around 1972-1973. Bump Elliott deserves more credit than he has ever gotten. The state of our department back then was similiar to Wisconsin in 1990 when Alvarez was hired and they had to cut seven sports. I mean, Minnesota was kicking our ass on the field, the court, the sideline, and in recruiting in the early seventies. Nebraska was getting many of the best in state football players that weren't going to Ames during the Johnny Majors/Earle Bruce eras.

One thing Bump doesn't get credit for, but which may have been the very toughest thing he ever had to do, was terminate Bob Commings. There is no disputing players liked/loved Commings. He had certainly upped things from the Lauterbuhr years (Lauterbuhr, himself, had a good resume') and the dumpster fire created by the Evy/Nagel "dispute". And some thought Commings WAS turning the corner. Too bad, in one sense, but it was a very good move as everyone found out.

 

[HawkGold]

One thing Bump doesn't get credit for, but which may have been the very toughest thing he ever had to do, was terminate Bob Commings. There is no disputing players liked/loved Commings. He had certainly upped things from the Lauterbuhr years (Lauterbuhr, himself, had a good resume') and the dumpster fire created by the Evy/Nagel "dispute". And some thought Commings WAS turning the corner. Too bad, in one sense, but it was a very good move as everyone found out.

But he did take a chance. Commings was really into it. Hayden's early success was on the foundation of Commings. Sort of like KF's early success on Hayden.

This issue with Commings was that he was trying to out Michigan by playing like Michigan and same with OSU and it wasn't going to work. He was never going to open things up. I was young, but it wasn't a big deal that the program took a step back in one year. I would guess that Bump saw that.

Sort of with Fran, we have maybe another Commings situation. Fran isn't playing smash mouth basketball, but he is trying to be UNVL on the court without UNLV players. If Fran doesn't win the Big next year he's not likely going to do it ever.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

But he did take a chance. Commings was really into it. Hayden's early success was on the foundation of Commings. Sort of like KF's early success on Hayden.

This issue with Commings was that he was trying to out Michigan by playing like Michigan and same with OSU and it wasn't going to work. He was never going to open things up. I was young, but it wasn't a big deal that the program took a step back in one year. I would guess that Bump saw that.

Sort of with Fran, we have maybe another Commings situation. Fran isn't playing smash mouth basketball, but he is trying to be UNVL on the court without UNLV players. If Fran doesn't win the Big next year he's not likely going to do it ever.

That makes no sense. Commings definitely tried to open things up. He didn't have enough success, but he definitely tried.

The problem was, he was a high school coach trying to win at the college level. Like Gerry Faust (who later tried at ND), Ohio high school coaches had the idea they were college level because they won big. But as Commings pointed out, his high school staff had nine coaches. Those schools, especially the private ones, spent bundles on their football programs. But it was still high school, not college.

Fran has won at the college level, and at multiple schools. He has taken multiple schools to the NCAA Tournament.

 

[HawkGold]

No he didnt and couldnt. Agree about HS.

Fran is pretty so so.

 

[Adam]

In your naivety you miss a lot of things. You leave out the Lori Laughlin syndrome. You will naively assume that because we are Iowa that Im saying Iowa doesnt do that.

2 very mediocre coaches. Almost worst punter 2 years. Nonsense salaries and bonuses and buyouts. Man in control making far less.

Ya its about the players having a rich experience like taking care of a football player who donated his future thru concussions and got booted off for bad decisions when the medical profession knows brain injury destroys impulse control and that pot does help concussions. Also a program that tied to say that they only half a concussion once a year or something like that.

Ya we are mediocre due to athlete luv. Its rational.

Well that's not what I said at all. Try reading it again while taking off your holy crusader hat.

My statement has nothing to do with individual player scenarios within individual programs. It is about the "University". The University is a much larger collective of minds that govern the goals and priorities of the school.

These priorities are more focused on student athlete graduation, NCAA compliance, and Federal compliance. There are other Universities that are willing to reorder those priorities to move winning championships into the main goals. Those schools place tremendous pressures on their athletic departments to produce championships. This is just something Iowa doesn't do. This is why the University appears content with above average winning. It's not a complicated thought process to follow. I'm disappointed that I had to go into so much depth for you to understand as I thought this was generally well known.

Furthermore, these things have nothing to do with fans. There is no protest or civil disobedience that will sway the resolve of majority consensus in Academia. If noone goes to games the University will clean house and start over again with a suggestion of new hope. It will still be an athletic department directed under the same goals and principles as before. Maybe it's program's get better, maybe they don't. To the University those odds are a dice roll.

The NCAA rules are in place to make a fair playing field (at least the flawed construct of one). The only guaranteed way to build a brand new national perennial contender is to break or bend those rules. The University right now will not do that.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

He was no more connected in Chicago than Knight. He did get Ronnie Lester, but there were a ton he didn't get, too. Rickey Green, Mark Aguirre, Isaiah Thomas, Darius Clemons, Levi Cobb, Terry Cummings, Teddy Grubbs, Doc Rivers, Sol White, to name but one bunch.

Lute hated the "fish bowl" effect of being in Iowa City. Some of his pressers his last season were painful to watch.

Raveling, of course, got guys from everywhere BUT Chicago, as Lou Henson and the boys in the Public League had set up their little "arrangement" by then. But he felt Iowa City was a little "slow" in adapting to a Black head coach (he later admitted not giving his time in Iowa City a chance to develop).

Lute had one Final Four (1980) and one Sweet Sixteen (1983). He had a losing season in year 4. He had a conference title. Well, actually, a three-way tie. Which, as we know from the standards applied to KF in football, doesn't "count". First round flameouts to Toledo in 1979 and Wichita State in 1981. In 1981 they had the conference title in hand, but lost two in a row. In 1982 they started 19-3, then finished 21-8, losing in the second round. Sound familiar?

Raveling had a sub-500 season, a first round flameout blowing a lead against Arkansas. That season the team sat, at one point, at 19-4. They finished the season 21-11 with that first-round flameout. His last year, after starting 13-4, they finished 20-12. With, of course, another first-round loss. Sound familiar?

i started watching/paying attention to iowa basketball with the '77-'78 season. from that point on through the end of the '82-'83 season when lute left, he had the following players from chicago:
* ronnie lester.
* kenny arnold.
* steve krafcisin
* kevin boyle
* mike ahrens
**Note: these five chicagoans were on the final four team.
* andre banks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977–78_Iowa_Hawkeyes_men's_basketball_team

so, with the years prior to that, i was to young to even care about iowa basketball so, to be fair, my reference point didn't include lute's entire tenure at iowa. but ingrained in my memory was so many kids from chicago playing for iowa on their final four team.

 

[Northside Hawk]

He lost out on more than Isaiah. He lost Terry Cummings, Teddy Grubbs, Russell Cross, Mark Aguirre and a host of others. Believe it or not, coaches recruited the Public League heavily before Lute came along.

Banks, by the way, was a product not of the Public League, but of the Catholic League, like Krafcisin and Boyle. That league had its own formidable set of teams and players.

Oddly, Raveling didn't seem to "push" the Public League, but did just fine going to Peoria, Springfield, et. al.

Russell Cross and Doc Rivers were noted as near misses in threads from earlier this week.

I knew Krafciscin and Boyle were Catholic league products but didn't realize Banks was. I thought he was public league but the early eighties were a long time ago.

Raveling's greatest recruiting coup was getting Armstrong, Marble and Bill Jones out of Michigan. They would be Spartans or Wolverines for sure today if a blue blood didn't snatch them up first. Ed Horton would probably be a Kansas Jayhawk.

 

[Northside Hawk]

i started watching/paying attention to iowa basketball with the '77-'78 season. from that point on through the end of the '82-'83 season when lute left, he had the following players from chicago:
* ronnie lester.
* kenny arnold.
* steve krafcisin
* kevin boyle
* mike ahrens
**Note: these five chicagoans were on the final four team.
* andre banks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977–78_Iowa_Hawkeyes_men's_basketball_team

so, with the years prior to that, i was to young to even care about iowa basketball so, to be fair, my reference point didn't include lute's entire tenure at iowa. but ingrained in my memory was so many kids from chicago playing for iowa on their final four team.

Four of those five frequently started on the final four team. The fifth was Steve Waite or Vince Brookins, depending on which way Lute wanted to go.

 

[Northside Hawk]

One thing Bump doesn't get credit for, but which may have been the very toughest thing he ever had to do, was terminate Bob Commings. There is no disputing players liked/loved Commings. He had certainly upped things from the Lauterbuhr years (Lauterbuhr, himself, had a good resume') and the dumpster fire created by the Evy/Nagel "dispute". And some thought Commings WAS turning the corner. Too bad, in one sense, but it was a very good move as everyone found out.

Commings, after showing some promise in 1976 and 1977, crashed and burned in year five. Ironically, Lute crashed and burned in year four, but he had a young team that year. They grew up fast the next year, 1978-79. Commings went 2-9 in 1978 and that was enough for Bump Elliott.

 

[Northside Hawk]

He was no more connected in Chicago than Knight. He did get Ronnie Lester, but there were a ton he didn't get, too. Rickey Green, Mark Aguirre, Isaiah Thomas, Darius Clemons, Levi Cobb, Terry Cummings, Teddy Grubbs, Doc Rivers, Sol White, to name but one bunch.

Lute hated the "fish bowl" effect of being in Iowa City. Some of his pressers his last season were painful to watch.

Raveling, of course, got guys from everywhere BUT Chicago, as Lou Henson and the boys in the Public League had set up their little "arrangement" by then. But he felt Iowa City was a little "slow" in adapting to a Black head coach (he later admitted not giving his time in Iowa City a chance to develop).

Lute had one Final Four (1980) and one Sweet Sixteen (1983). He had a losing season in year 4. He had a conference title. Well, actually, a three-way tie. Which, as we know from the standards applied to KF in football, doesn't "count". First round flameouts to Toledo in 1979 and Wichita State in 1981. In 1981 they had the conference title in hand, but lost two in a row. In 1982 they started 19-3, then finished 21-8, losing in the second round. Sound familiar?

Raveling had a sub-500 season, a first round flameout blowing a lead against Arkansas. That season the team sat, at one point, at 19-4. They finished the season 21-11 with that first-round flameout. His last year, after starting 13-4, they finished 20-12. With, of course, another first-round loss. Sound familiar?

1981 and '82 were killers. Losing the last two games in '81 cost Iowa the conference, and Indiana stormed through the gate.

1982 saw losses in the final three conference games. And they were excruciating losses. At home to Minnesota in triple overtime on a foul at the buzzer. Overtime at Illinois after blowing an eight point late lead. And the Purdue Jim Bain game. We had a backboard in the neighborhood attached to an alley garage, which is how a lot of us played then, that was 8'8" high. I went straight to that hoop after the Jim Bain game and powered down every dunk I could think of until I was too tired to be frustrated.

Raveling's 1985 and 1986 teams looked similiar on paper, but there was a difference. The 1985 team was a veteran bunch led by Greg Stokes, Michael Payne and Todd Berkanpas, all Lute holdovers.

The 1986 team had only two Lute holdovers, Andre Banks and Brad Lohaus. They were led mostly by freshmen and sophomores, and got even younger when Bill Jones moved past Kevin Gamble at midseason. Jones became a terror in the zone press the rest of that season, along with Marble and Banks, and the Hawks found their mojo down the stretch. Abysmal free throw shooting cost them the NCAA game against NC State.

 

[HawkGold]

Well that's not what I said at all. Try reading it again while taking off your holy crusader hat.

My statement has nothing to do with individual player scenarios within individual programs. It is about the "University". The University is a much larger collective of minds that govern the goals and priorities of the school.

These priorities are more focused on student athlete graduation, NCAA compliance, and Federal compliance. There are other Universities that are willing to reorder those priorities to move winning championships into the main goals. Those schools place tremendous pressures on their athletic departments to produce championships. This is just something Iowa doesn't do. This is why the University appears content with above average winning. It's not a complicated thought process to follow. I'm disappointed that I had to go into so much depth for you to understand as I thought this was generally well known.

Furthermore, these things have nothing to do with fans. There is no protest or civil disobedience that will sway the resolve of majority consensus in Academia. If noone goes to games the University will clean house and start over again with a suggestion of new hope. It will still be an athletic department directed under the same goals and principles as before. Maybe it's program's get better, maybe they don't. To the University those odds are a dice roll.

The NCAA rules are in place to make a fair playing field (at least the flawed construct of one). The only guaranteed way to build a brand new national perennial contender is to break or bend those rules. The University right now will not do that.

Naive

 

[Adam]

Naive

Weak

 

[tweeterhawk]

Personally I'd like to see someone with Iowa ties get the job. Dean Oliver and Matt Gatens come to mind. I also think they need youth on the staff.

To heck with Iowa ties. Get a black assistant who provably can talk the talk and recruit athletes to a white bread basketball program.

That is all.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

That makes no sense. Commings definitely tried to open things up. He didn't have enough success, but he definitely tried.

The problem was, he was a high school coach trying to win at the college level. Like Gerry Faust (who later tried at ND), Ohio high school coaches had the idea they were college level because they won big. But as Commings pointed out, his high school staff had nine coaches. Those schools, especially the private ones, spent bundles on their football programs. But it was still high school, not college.

Fran has won at the college level, and at multiple schools. He has taken multiple schools to the NCAA Tournament.

I had an epic collectors item that disappeared somewhere around graduation. My buddy worked at Fairchild grocery on Melrose (now Stella). He found a box of T-shirts in the basement that apparently were forgotten...just 3 left.

It was a caricature of Bob Cummings sitting on the toilet, the roll of TP said "Iowa playbook". The caption was "Bowl Bound". Man I wish I still had that today.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

i started watching/paying attention to iowa basketball with the '77-'78 season. from that point on through the end of the '82-'83 season when lute left, he had the following players from chicago:
* ronnie lester.
* kenny arnold.
* steve krafcisin
* kevin boyle
* mike ahrens
**Note: these five chicagoans were on the final four team.
* andre banks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977–78_Iowa_Hawkeyes_men's_basketball_team

so, with the years prior to that, i was to young to even care about iowa basketball so, to be fair, my reference point didn't include lute's entire tenure at iowa. but ingrained in my memory was so many kids from chicago playing for iowa on their final four team.

And of those, only two played in the Public League, i.e., lived "in" Chicago.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

And of those, only two played in the Public League, i.e., lived "in" Chicago.

i didn't say "public league" in my original post. i said chicago.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

i didn't say "public league" in my original post. i said chicago.

Sorry, confusing with another post, evidently. But to that point, Krafcisin and Boyle were hardly "inner city", both in origin and playing style.As well, Krafcisin originally chose UNC (thus becoming a famous note of trivia as the first person to play in Final Four for two different teams).

Also of interest, Boyle's St. Lawrence team was who took down Isaiah Thomas's Westchester/St. Joseph's team in the 1978 IHSA tournament. St. Joe's would later reach some notoriety in the "Hoop Dreams" documentary.

 

[smhawk]

Francis was probably good for the locker room atmosphere but wasn't too impressed with his single game he coached this season. But worst was some of his comments post game, saying he was happy with the defense. I still liked him as an assistant but at his age he shouldn't be staying any where 9 years, unless he has zero potential. We need to bring in an assistant that wants a bigger job 3 years from now. Not saying that's an easy task.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Sorry, confusing with another post, evidently. But to that point, Krafcisin and Boyle were hardly "inner city", both in origin and playing style.As well, Krafcisin originally chose UNC (thus becoming a famous note of trivia as the first person to play in Final Four for two different teams).

Also of interest, Boyle's St. Lawrence team was who took down Isaiah Thomas's Westchester/St. Joseph's team in the 1978 IHSA tournament. St. Joe's would later reach some notoriety in the "Hoop Dreams" documentary.

Bob Bender trumped Krafciscin, and nearly accomplished something never done before, winning national championships with two different Div. 1 teams. He was on Indiana's 1976 undefeated championship team, transferred to Duke, and was on the Blue devils runner up team in 1978.

Ricky Calloway won a championship with Indiana, transferred to Kansas after his junior year, and missed their 1988 championship team by two years and their 1991 runner up team by one year.