Stanzi
Well-Known Member
If you're not first you're last.
Andrew Francis
- Thread starter tksirius
- Start date
If you're not first you're last.
trj
Well-Known Member
ISU currently has 4 or 5 guys playing in the league right now and what has it got them? My bad, you guys are all about winning the Big 12 tournament. I guess competing nationally would mean winning the B1G tournament in your eyes.
trj
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I am only counting 6. Wasn't Lohaus a Lute get? Bill Jones was a 3rd round pick by the Pistons, but I don't think he ever played professionally.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
I will give him Brad Lohaus and Andre Banks, who were recruited by Lute but played primarily for George (by that logic you could eliminate BJ, Roy, Eddie, Gamble, and Les Jepsen right off the bat but I will give him wiggle room at both ends). That's seven. Bill Jones got a cup of coffee with the Nets. Jeff Moe may have got a few games with the Jazz. Gerry Wright, Kent Hill, and Michael Reaves got CBA/overseas professional experience. If either Michael Morgan or Ken Fullard played CBA or overseas that gives him his thirteen, but I am being very generous with my criteria and four or five of those are very fringe examples at best.
True. But if their credentials are good enough and they'd be a fit then you begin looking for reasons to why not. One reason I could see Fran not hiring any of them would be that he may feel they'd threaten to replace him sooner then hed like... Obviously the other assistants posed zero threat in that regard.
Adam
Well-Known Member
I'm suprised that Iowa hasn't managed to be better. Maybe they are just unaware of your preference? I'm sure that if you told them as such they would quickly start delivering. I bet they have just been confused this whole time about what Oldhawk12 wants from them.
Adam
Well-Known Member
Man you are basically a Corn Husker. I sympathize for your obvious displeasure.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
G
Gerry Wright - drafted by Detroit Pistons
BJ Armstrong - 1st rd Chicago Bulls 12 yr nba career incl nba all star one yr
Bill Jones - NEw Jersey Nets 1 yr and 11 yrs of overseas
Jeff Moe - 2nd rd Utah Jazz
Roy Marble - 1st rd Atlanta Hawks. Played two yrs and another with Denver and 10 more yrs with assorted other teams
Ed Horton - 2nd rd Washington Bullets. Two yrs in league and seven more otherwise
Kevin Gamble- rd 3 Portland. Played 11 years in the NBA
Kent Hill - played professionally overseas for a dozen yrs
Al Lorenzen - played in the CBA for a while
Les Jepsen - rd 2 Golden St. played three yrs and three more elsewhere
Brad Lohaus- rd 2 Boston. Played 13 years
There is eleven off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure Reaves and Morgan or even Mark Jewell played overseas at least a year. They were certainly good enough. Jewell was former mr basketball in Indiana. Morgan and Reaves were both phenomenal players out of Georgia and Louisiana that would have started on any other Iowa teams. I really don’t understand what you are arguing with me about as there is no argument. Clearly, we have not recruited anywhere near this level since and never will based on the type of coaches we go after. But to focus on Ravelings misses as an excuse for red face is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of. Fran has never landed anywhere near the talent level of Raveling and never will.
Gerry Wright - drafted by Detroit Pistons
BJ Armstrong - 1st rd Chicago Bulls 12 yr nba career incl nba all star one yr
Bill Jones - NEw Jersey Nets 1 yr and 11 yrs of overseas
Jeff Moe - 2nd rd Utah Jazz
Roy Marble - 1st rd Atlanta Hawks. Played two yrs and another with Denver and 10 more yrs with assorted other teams
Ed Horton - 2nd rd Washington Bullets. Two yrs in league and seven more otherwise
Kevin Gamble- rd 3 Portland. Played 11 years in the NBA
Kent Hill - played professionally overseas for a dozen yrs
Al Lorenzen - played in the CBA for a while
Les Jepsen - rd 2 Golden St. played three yrs and three more elsewhere
Brad Lohaus- rd 2 Boston. Played 13 years
There is eleven off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure Reaves and Morgan or even Mark Jewell played overseas at least a year. They were certainly good enough. Jewell was former mr basketball in Indiana. Morgan and Reaves were both phenomenal players out of Georgia and Louisiana that would have started on any other Iowa teams. I really don’t understand what you are arguing with me about as there is no argument. Clearly, we have not recruited anywhere near this level since and never will based on the type of coaches we go after. But to focus on Ravelings misses as an excuse for red face is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of. Fran has never landed anywhere near the talent level of Raveling and never will.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
I loved Reaves. He was one my all time favorite Hawks. And you're right. Reaves, Morgan and Kent Hill would have been bell cows on many Iowa teams.
Jewell never got a fair shake at Iowa, in part because of the talent ahead of him. If he had reshirted early in his career he may have flourished by his fifth year the way Jepsen did.
You actually forgot Andre Banks, who was drafted by the Rockets and had to have played some professional ball.
You probably could have added Al Lorenzen to the NBA list had the back issues not short-circuited his career.
I enjoyed those teams too. And I'm not stupid. I realize Lute and George have recruited better than "red face". I focused on the misses because you wouldn't. You were presenting an incomplete picture while supporting you're argument. I was very happy with who Lute and George did sign and will never forget 1980 and 1987. If Lester doesn't go down in the Louisville game, we are national champs. If we have a strong interior defender in 1987 we make the final four.
Iowa can be nationally relevant again, like it was in the mid fifties, 1970, the latter Lute years and the early Tom years. We need an athletic director that demands it and things will fall into place from there. It won't be constant, but Iowa is capable of three to five year spurts of greatness. We've done it before.
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I didn’t forget Banks because I specifically said the 86-87 season which was the final 8 team. And I don’t care about ravelings misses because he had grand slams his 13 other at bats that red face doesn’t have. I didn’t forget lorenzen. We are arguing about two different things. There really is no comparison anyway. This university will never hire the type of coach it will take to get the level of athlete needed to compete nationally in either sport. They won’t hire an AD that would let it happen. It’s like we are afraid of “the other side”. Like we aren’t good enough or that we’d have to constantly hire coaches and the administration isn’t interested in that. They want steady, conservative, don’t rock boats conservative. No Bruce Pearl, Jans, Forbes or anyone that comes with any hint of baggage or swagger. Same for football
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
I've come to the conclusion, and have picked up steam on the idea, that we need to have red hot up and comers running our programs, not comfortable lifers on eight year contracts. Or if we have lifers, their assistant coaches better be hot up and comers striving to be head coaches some day.
All we have to do is convince Barta and the boosters. But the fear of the avant garde is an issue that shows no signs of being resolved. We have comfortable assistants working for comfortable head coaches. Good luck to Andrew Francis, but new blood on that staff was long overdue.
Now I’ve found someone that gets it. I don’t care if our coach has iowa ties or stays just a year or three. I just care about national relevance. I want someone that wants to win and move on to bigger things because that’s a healthy thing in life. Camping is not.
Adam
Well-Known Member
You care so much about national relevance why? I'm mean sure it would be great, but why is it the only thing that would bring you satisfaction?
Personally I wish for more ambition from our President and Athletic department, but that does not mean that I spit upon the sturdy foundation. I appreciate Kirk's brand of ho hum a bit more than Fran's, but I congratulate both for not being abject failures.
In no way shape or form do I accept your premise that getting a basketball coach that is using Iowa to land a better gig is worthwhile. Even if said coach does achieve greatness in a short period of time the simple history of college basketball overwhelmingly indicates that after the successful short term coach follows a trail of tears. I'm not the least interested in pursuing a coach every 3 years. Having our cake and eating it too should not be unachievable. There is no reason that we can't just pony up the cash to land a legend coach and then keep paying him to keep him here. Dynasties are not built with new Emporers every year. They are built by strong leadership over long periods of time.
You maybe willing to sell Iowa basketball down the river so you can have 1 more bucket list year of Bball, but I am not. I support moving on from Fran, but I believe quite firmly that we should always be looking and incentivizing a great coach to come here to stay while building a dynasty and a legacy.
mopkins
King Kong
Eventually "red hot up and comers" become old or they move on. So I don't think its a realistic standard to set. Realistically there are maybe 5 "red hot up and comers" and a whole lot of duds (ie: PJ Fleck)
Also, there was one time when Iowa chased the "red hot up and comer" and gave us Steve Alford. So be careful what you wish for
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Lute Olson was the very definition of a "red hot up and comer". So was Forrest Evashevski. They had aspirations that didn't include staying at Iowa, but they didn't shortchange us when they were here.
Alford was hired for the long haul, at least in Bowlsby's eyes. I think Steve convinced Bob that he could be a lifer. Didn't work that way.
It's a risk I'm willing to take when Kirk and Fran move on or retire. I'm also aware of what's happened at Illinois so the powers that be would have to be careful. But I believe that true greatness at Iowa can only be achieved in short spurts. We will never be a brand at the highest level decade in decade out like the blue bloods.
mopkins
King Kong
I think people just gotta be careful what they wish for and need to fully understand what they're signing up for. Trying to catch lightning in a bottle or the hottest "next big thing" is what schools like Minnesota and Illinois and Nebraska and Indiana and Iowa State and....how many other schools....are constantly trying to do. Just look how much money Nebraska has been paying coaches not to work there...its insane.
Then when one of these schools seemingly does catch lightning in a bottle...perhaps Campbell at Iowa state TBD...there are constant worries that he's going to leave for bigger things. Meanwhile Minnesota is stuck with a cut-up who runs up and down their sidelines and plastered an oar on their football helmets.
