Hawkeye11en1
Well-Known Member
To be honest, that's what both teams should do. I know Iowa won't do that, because that's not Norm's style...but both QBs could be rather green.
A Way Too Early Look at... ISU
- Thread starter spudhawk
- Start date
To be honest, that's what both teams should do. I know Iowa won't do that, because that's not Norm's style...but both QBs could be rather green.
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
I would definitely agree that that would probably be ISU's best hope.
LOL HFN.
Hahhahaa. Epic posts guys. We're gonna crush ISwho? so hard they'll be crapping our cletes!
Silly cyCLOWNS. Too bad we have to crush them in their high school stadium. It sucks!
GO HAWKS!!!
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
If Iowa continues to play with the overall attitude that they've played with since '07, then I think that just as long as Iowa has pretty good talent in the trenches then I think that Iowa holds enough match-up advantages to win the game ... potentially even by a margin.
Aside from special teams play and/or miscues ... line play is one of the biggest elements that can sway games. Poor OL play can increase the odds of turnovers. Particularly good DL play can increase the odds of turnovers. Particularly good OL play can increase the chances of dictating tempo. Particularly poor DL play can increase the chances of having the tempo be dictated to you.
Given the role of momentum in a game, I think that above factors pretty nicely distills why many Iowa vs ISU games ended up having the outcomes that they had ... for better or worse for EITHER squad. There are obviously counterexamples ... however, I believe that it still nicely captures the trend.
Anyhow, I'd agree with any assertion that suggests that the game will be closer than the prior 2 match-ups ... however, I still see Iowa owning enough advantages to still be the likely victor.
Aside from special teams play and/or miscues ... line play is one of the biggest elements that can sway games. Poor OL play can increase the odds of turnovers. Particularly good DL play can increase the odds of turnovers. Particularly good OL play can increase the chances of dictating tempo. Particularly poor DL play can increase the chances of having the tempo be dictated to you.
Given the role of momentum in a game, I think that above factors pretty nicely distills why many Iowa vs ISU games ended up having the outcomes that they had ... for better or worse for EITHER squad. There are obviously counterexamples ... however, I believe that it still nicely captures the trend.
Anyhow, I'd agree with any assertion that suggests that the game will be closer than the prior 2 match-ups ... however, I still see Iowa owning enough advantages to still be the likely victor.
TecmoBowl
Well-Known Member
About a post commenting on Jantz and his inability to beat out Tiller this spring...I think Rhoads is playing it close to the vest because there might be some fear of Tiller transferring and leaving the program 1 injury away from some real serious QB questions showing up. Also keep in mind that Capello has already transfered out.
Rhoads has said Tiller looks great in practice, but fails to shine when the lights come on. Reading between the lines, it tells me he's not a gamer in Rhoad's assessment. That doesn't say what Jantz is, but its out there.
Tiller had also mentioned at or near the end of spring practice that he wished the coaching staff would hurry up and name a starter for 2011. Whys that? Maybe he wants to start at QB or pack his bags and head on down the road?
Just piecing together with some comments out in the media, I think Rhoads is showing a poker face here, and carrying on this "QB competition" for the good of the team. Jantz is here to stay either way, but I'm not sure what Tiller's mindset is. Tiller is important to the program whether he starts or not. Even if Jantz is given the QB job today, he won't be named as such until 7-10 days before the UNI game.
Rhoads has said Tiller looks great in practice, but fails to shine when the lights come on. Reading between the lines, it tells me he's not a gamer in Rhoad's assessment. That doesn't say what Jantz is, but its out there.
Tiller had also mentioned at or near the end of spring practice that he wished the coaching staff would hurry up and name a starter for 2011. Whys that? Maybe he wants to start at QB or pack his bags and head on down the road?
Just piecing together with some comments out in the media, I think Rhoads is showing a poker face here, and carrying on this "QB competition" for the good of the team. Jantz is here to stay either way, but I'm not sure what Tiller's mindset is. Tiller is important to the program whether he starts or not. Even if Jantz is given the QB job today, he won't be named as such until 7-10 days before the UNI game.
spudhawk
Well-Known Member
Lets break it down a bit differently. Lets compare positions, i.e. QB to QB. I am sure at the end of this I will be accused of seeing things from Hawk Colored glasses so feel free do disagree with me, but please post a reason.
QB Edge Iowa- JVB comes into the season having played significant roles in three games of the 2009 season and only saw one drive in which a game was being contested last season- opening game versus Eastern Illinois. Has been in the program for 3 seasons and is the clear cut starter. Career record as a starter 1-1 (also played most of the Northwestern game leading Iowa to 0 points in 2009). 200 yards games passing- 1, TD/INT 3/5
Tiller is fighting JC QB Jantz for the job, heads into fall camp on the 1 line. Has more experience than JVB, has a career record of 1-4 as a starter (also played a significant role in win over UNI in 2010), but the one win was at Nebraska. More of a runner than a pure passer has rushed for positive yards in each season and has 2 rushing TDs (both in 2009). 200 yard passing games- 0, TD/INT 2/4
Jantz is a minor legend because of his name. Competed for the starting job this spring and has a chance to win the job in the fall.
TB Edge Iowa- Marcus Coker makes this a no- brainer. However Iowa has very questionable depth behind him and may struggle in the running game if her were to go down with injury. It is also a bit of an unknown how well he catches passes and Adam Robinson will be missed as much for his rushing as his pass catching (24 291 yards 1 TD). Iowa has a chance to have a very good line and the screen pass was a bit underutilized last season. If Coker can catch he could be devastating in screen situations. Backed up by De'Andre Johnson, Jason White, and a host of freshman.
This isn't as big as an edge as Iowa fans may believe- Shontrelle Johnson who has very good speed and is a bit shifty. Johnson will likely receive the most snaps at this position but ISU has at least two others competing for time in S.E. Polk native Jeff Woody and James White. Alexander Robinson is leaving big shoes to fill, however and was a solid contributor in all phases of the game.
WR Edge Iowa- McNutt and Keenan Davis again give Iowa an edge in this spot. McNutt is coming off an 8 TD (2 more than ISU's entire returning pass catchers from last season) season and could improve on that this season as DJK is gone. Davis has big shoes to fill but seemed to flash several times last season and already has as many TDs in his career against ISU in limited reps as any ISU receiver possesses against Iowa. After these two Iowa is a complete unknown. Iowa will be missing DJK, Sandeman and even Chaney. A lot of unknowns here, Iowa has at least 5 bodies competing for time behind Davis ans McNutt.
ISU is looking to replace the steady Jake Williams and the enigmatic Sedrick Johnson. They currently possess three receivers who have received time and been a bit productive. However those three combined for less yards than McNutt gathered last season (861 for McNutt to 808 for the ISU trio) and they had only 1 more yard than McNutt last season in the game on 4 more catches.
TE- this is a huge edge for Iowa. Iowa returns Brad Herman who was dominating as a blocker and before last season was thought of more of a receiving tight end. Herman has excellent size, speed and athleticism for the position and will possibly have a hard time holding off the freakish C.J. Fiedorowicz. Iowa is deep at this spot with Zach Derby capable as a 3rd stringer and three freshman on the way.
ISU is losing a very talented player in Collin Franklin who led the team in receptions and yards and they look to have nothing special at this position. This may not matter much offensively to ISU as they can line up without a TE, but this is certainly the biggest positional gap between the two schools.
Offensive Line- again this is closer than many Iowa fans realize. Iowa returns 5 players with starts last season and has two promising youngsters waiting for an opportunity in Boffeli and Scherff. This line will likely feature two NFL draft picks for next season in tackles Rieff and Zusevics and Ferentz looks to be on track for an NFL future.
ISU returns Osemele who is very highly thought of by NFL scouts and such, and Burris and Hicks who possesses very good size. Burris was spotty at times and really struggled against K-State last season. ISU will be replacing their best lineman from last season and another 2 year starter. I have no idea who the replacements will be but they won't be better than Lamaak.
Defensive line- push Iowa returns Binns and Daniels who had 11 TFLs last season playing part time. Binns really struggled and the highlight of his season was his 20 INT return for a TD. Iowa must have Binns bounce back. The rest of the line is likely a mystery but Iowa has several players with high potential including Daniel, Alvis, Hardy, Davis, Nardo, Forgy, Bigach and incoming freshman Darian Cooper to fight for the two open spots. Iowa likely has the deeper unit overall but you generally only play 4 at a time.
ISU loses only two players from last season and returns Lattimer who made honorable mention Big 12 last season in limited reps and a bunch of small guys at DE that are super fast and pass rush specialists like Maggitt, Neal, and Nelson. They have combined for 1 sack last season ( I know Nelson red-shirted). ISU also returns their best defensive lineman Rump. I already spelled his whole name in the OP and thats enough. I personally though Rump was a standout last season for the whole season and could give Iowa trouble in the next match up. ISU also returns McDonough who looked solid at times last season. They also have an impact DT coming in named Pompey who has to be called THE VOLCANO please. He is listed at less than 260 on ESPN.
Linebackers- push. Iowa returns three players with quality reps- Nielsen, Morris and DiBona. DiBona was limited in the spring with Rhabdo and another injury (shoulder?) Nielsen was on track to out produce A.J. Edds at the Leo position and looked incredibly solid in both phases. He had an interception versus the Clones and 9 BU/PD last season in 8 games. Morris can be penciled in as the Mike for his next three seasons and did a very good job versus the run and will likely be bigger this season. He had 70 tackles in only 7 games of starter reps. He also looks to be Iowa's best blitz linebacker in several seasons. Iowa has very little proven depth and there will likely be a huge battle for the Will spot.
ISU has a solid tandem as well in Knott and Klein and they should be even more effective with the expected improvement from ISU's d-line. ISU played a lot of 4-2-5 last season and has no proven depth or a sure bet at the Mike position. however Knott and Klein have proven to be solid playmakers in both phases.
DB- push Iowa returns Prater and Hyde- who may be playing free safety instead of corner this season. Iowa also returns Bernstine, Lowery, Castillo, Miller, Nielsen and Swanson. Iowa also has a few freshman that avoid the red shirt this season. Iowa loses 7 years in starting experience in Sash and Greenwood and they had 6 INTs in the last 2 meetings.
ISU returns 3 players with a lot of reps last season- Benton, Johnson and Reeves. Reeves is only 5'7 and that will be tough on him against Iowa as McNutt is 6'4 and Davis is 6'3. Benton is solid at both CB and Safety but if ISU is going to play 5 DBs every down they have virtually no experienced players left and are losing an underrated O'Connell and the sticky fingered David Sims (6 INTs in his career). ISU struggled mightily versus crossing patterns and play action last season as Stanzi averaged 18.5 yards on 11 completions.
K edge Iowa- Meyer will likely be the PK for the Hawks and is coming off an excellent freshman year going 14-17 (2-3 from 40-49) and showed a big leg on kick offs with 15 TBs. However as he won the regular kicking job his kick offs dropped a bit. Iowa also struggled with kick coverage and will likely be very young, especially early on the Kick team. Trent Mossbrucker is also an option here.
ISU's Mahoney has seen a steady decline in his accuracy but has a big leg- career long 57 yards and had 16 TBs last season on 52 kicks and helped ISU to a solid 41.7 net.
P Huge edge for ISU- the VanDerKamp was excellent last season. ISU's return team was not spectacular.
Iowa has no clear cut punter and this battle could rage into the season. Iowa is replacing one of the best punters in the nation and a likely NFL player in Donahue. Iowa's punt team was not very good last season including a punt block versus Arizona and turning several solid punts in to TBs last season.
Return- Edge ISU. ISU returns all their key returners and all three are talented.
Iowa returns Kennan Davis at KR and he has not shown the kind of big play ability at this position to keep his role. Hyde at PR seems to have potential and may actually come to fruition.
Summary 5 Edges for Iowa on offense, 3 pushes for each team on defense, 1 edge for Iowa in special teams and 2 edges for ISU on special teams. Weird things happen to Iowa in Jack Trice and this will be the best defensive unit for ISU in several seasons but Iowa should and will be favored in this game.
QB Edge Iowa- JVB comes into the season having played significant roles in three games of the 2009 season and only saw one drive in which a game was being contested last season- opening game versus Eastern Illinois. Has been in the program for 3 seasons and is the clear cut starter. Career record as a starter 1-1 (also played most of the Northwestern game leading Iowa to 0 points in 2009). 200 yards games passing- 1, TD/INT 3/5
Tiller is fighting JC QB Jantz for the job, heads into fall camp on the 1 line. Has more experience than JVB, has a career record of 1-4 as a starter (also played a significant role in win over UNI in 2010), but the one win was at Nebraska. More of a runner than a pure passer has rushed for positive yards in each season and has 2 rushing TDs (both in 2009). 200 yard passing games- 0, TD/INT 2/4
Jantz is a minor legend because of his name. Competed for the starting job this spring and has a chance to win the job in the fall.
TB Edge Iowa- Marcus Coker makes this a no- brainer. However Iowa has very questionable depth behind him and may struggle in the running game if her were to go down with injury. It is also a bit of an unknown how well he catches passes and Adam Robinson will be missed as much for his rushing as his pass catching (24 291 yards 1 TD). Iowa has a chance to have a very good line and the screen pass was a bit underutilized last season. If Coker can catch he could be devastating in screen situations. Backed up by De'Andre Johnson, Jason White, and a host of freshman.
This isn't as big as an edge as Iowa fans may believe- Shontrelle Johnson who has very good speed and is a bit shifty. Johnson will likely receive the most snaps at this position but ISU has at least two others competing for time in S.E. Polk native Jeff Woody and James White. Alexander Robinson is leaving big shoes to fill, however and was a solid contributor in all phases of the game.
WR Edge Iowa- McNutt and Keenan Davis again give Iowa an edge in this spot. McNutt is coming off an 8 TD (2 more than ISU's entire returning pass catchers from last season) season and could improve on that this season as DJK is gone. Davis has big shoes to fill but seemed to flash several times last season and already has as many TDs in his career against ISU in limited reps as any ISU receiver possesses against Iowa. After these two Iowa is a complete unknown. Iowa will be missing DJK, Sandeman and even Chaney. A lot of unknowns here, Iowa has at least 5 bodies competing for time behind Davis ans McNutt.
ISU is looking to replace the steady Jake Williams and the enigmatic Sedrick Johnson. They currently possess three receivers who have received time and been a bit productive. However those three combined for less yards than McNutt gathered last season (861 for McNutt to 808 for the ISU trio) and they had only 1 more yard than McNutt last season in the game on 4 more catches.
TE- this is a huge edge for Iowa. Iowa returns Brad Herman who was dominating as a blocker and before last season was thought of more of a receiving tight end. Herman has excellent size, speed and athleticism for the position and will possibly have a hard time holding off the freakish C.J. Fiedorowicz. Iowa is deep at this spot with Zach Derby capable as a 3rd stringer and three freshman on the way.
ISU is losing a very talented player in Collin Franklin who led the team in receptions and yards and they look to have nothing special at this position. This may not matter much offensively to ISU as they can line up without a TE, but this is certainly the biggest positional gap between the two schools.
Offensive Line- again this is closer than many Iowa fans realize. Iowa returns 5 players with starts last season and has two promising youngsters waiting for an opportunity in Boffeli and Scherff. This line will likely feature two NFL draft picks for next season in tackles Rieff and Zusevics and Ferentz looks to be on track for an NFL future.
ISU returns Osemele who is very highly thought of by NFL scouts and such, and Burris and Hicks who possesses very good size. Burris was spotty at times and really struggled against K-State last season. ISU will be replacing their best lineman from last season and another 2 year starter. I have no idea who the replacements will be but they won't be better than Lamaak.
Defensive line- push Iowa returns Binns and Daniels who had 11 TFLs last season playing part time. Binns really struggled and the highlight of his season was his 20 INT return for a TD. Iowa must have Binns bounce back. The rest of the line is likely a mystery but Iowa has several players with high potential including Daniel, Alvis, Hardy, Davis, Nardo, Forgy, Bigach and incoming freshman Darian Cooper to fight for the two open spots. Iowa likely has the deeper unit overall but you generally only play 4 at a time.
ISU loses only two players from last season and returns Lattimer who made honorable mention Big 12 last season in limited reps and a bunch of small guys at DE that are super fast and pass rush specialists like Maggitt, Neal, and Nelson. They have combined for 1 sack last season ( I know Nelson red-shirted). ISU also returns their best defensive lineman Rump. I already spelled his whole name in the OP and thats enough. I personally though Rump was a standout last season for the whole season and could give Iowa trouble in the next match up. ISU also returns McDonough who looked solid at times last season. They also have an impact DT coming in named Pompey who has to be called THE VOLCANO please. He is listed at less than 260 on ESPN.
Linebackers- push. Iowa returns three players with quality reps- Nielsen, Morris and DiBona. DiBona was limited in the spring with Rhabdo and another injury (shoulder?) Nielsen was on track to out produce A.J. Edds at the Leo position and looked incredibly solid in both phases. He had an interception versus the Clones and 9 BU/PD last season in 8 games. Morris can be penciled in as the Mike for his next three seasons and did a very good job versus the run and will likely be bigger this season. He had 70 tackles in only 7 games of starter reps. He also looks to be Iowa's best blitz linebacker in several seasons. Iowa has very little proven depth and there will likely be a huge battle for the Will spot.
ISU has a solid tandem as well in Knott and Klein and they should be even more effective with the expected improvement from ISU's d-line. ISU played a lot of 4-2-5 last season and has no proven depth or a sure bet at the Mike position. however Knott and Klein have proven to be solid playmakers in both phases.
DB- push Iowa returns Prater and Hyde- who may be playing free safety instead of corner this season. Iowa also returns Bernstine, Lowery, Castillo, Miller, Nielsen and Swanson. Iowa also has a few freshman that avoid the red shirt this season. Iowa loses 7 years in starting experience in Sash and Greenwood and they had 6 INTs in the last 2 meetings.
ISU returns 3 players with a lot of reps last season- Benton, Johnson and Reeves. Reeves is only 5'7 and that will be tough on him against Iowa as McNutt is 6'4 and Davis is 6'3. Benton is solid at both CB and Safety but if ISU is going to play 5 DBs every down they have virtually no experienced players left and are losing an underrated O'Connell and the sticky fingered David Sims (6 INTs in his career). ISU struggled mightily versus crossing patterns and play action last season as Stanzi averaged 18.5 yards on 11 completions.
K edge Iowa- Meyer will likely be the PK for the Hawks and is coming off an excellent freshman year going 14-17 (2-3 from 40-49) and showed a big leg on kick offs with 15 TBs. However as he won the regular kicking job his kick offs dropped a bit. Iowa also struggled with kick coverage and will likely be very young, especially early on the Kick team. Trent Mossbrucker is also an option here.
ISU's Mahoney has seen a steady decline in his accuracy but has a big leg- career long 57 yards and had 16 TBs last season on 52 kicks and helped ISU to a solid 41.7 net.
P Huge edge for ISU- the VanDerKamp was excellent last season. ISU's return team was not spectacular.
Iowa has no clear cut punter and this battle could rage into the season. Iowa is replacing one of the best punters in the nation and a likely NFL player in Donahue. Iowa's punt team was not very good last season including a punt block versus Arizona and turning several solid punts in to TBs last season.
Return- Edge ISU. ISU returns all their key returners and all three are talented.
Iowa returns Kennan Davis at KR and he has not shown the kind of big play ability at this position to keep his role. Hyde at PR seems to have potential and may actually come to fruition.
Summary 5 Edges for Iowa on offense, 3 pushes for each team on defense, 1 edge for Iowa in special teams and 2 edges for ISU on special teams. Weird things happen to Iowa in Jack Trice and this will be the best defensive unit for ISU in several seasons but Iowa should and will be favored in this game.
Good assessment. I would push at kicker and QB too. There is not that much to tell any Hawk fan what to expect out of Vandenberg. He looked miserable against Minnesota two years ago. Could he have gotten better? yes, but he is an unknown.
As for Mahoney, I would never trade him for Iowa's kicker. His accuracy may not be there, but he tried three times as many kicks, many from outside the redzone. We weren't giving him chip shots last year.
spudhawk
Well-Known Member
Would you trade Vandenberg for Tiller or Jantz? I would not and I know several ISU fans who would trade for him in a heart beat. He has a better arm than Stanzi, has more experience than Christensen did assuming the mantle from Tate, and showed solid decision making in every one of his appearances. Iowa's o-line looked miserable in that Minnesota game as Eubanks and Vandervelde really struggled to pick up the blitz up the middle and Iowa did not need to pass to win that game. Minnesota also had a very underrated defense that season that had 9 senior starters.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
At least Iowa fans have been able to see flashes of true potential by Vandenberg. Everyone knows he has a cannon for an arm, his development in decision making and reacting to pressure is what will be interesting to see. As an Iowa fan, I think most of us want to believe Vandy has improved in that regard, and hopefully he will show it this season. The Iowa offensive line and Coker will certainly help his confidence.
It seems to me like most ISU fans are unimpressed with Tiller. I guess I just get the vibe that many Cyclone fans would like to see Jantz come in and be the starter; which in turn leads me to believe they don't have a whole lot of confidence in Tiller. If you guys did have confidence in Tiller then you wouldn't be putting so much stock in an unproven JUCO transfer.
I guess my point is at least Vandy has his feet wet and has shown great ability against legit teams. He's actually shown on the field he has the tools to be a special player. He just needs to prove he can handle the pressure of being THE guy. The way Iowa runs their offense gives a lot more room for improvent as well. He doesn't have to come in and do everything in order for them to win games. A heavy dose of Coker can keep any game close.
If I was a Cyclone fan I'd be a little more hesitant when measuring up a guy who hasn't thrown the ball during a major college football game. You really have no idea how he will perform. Plus ISU will absolutely need their QB to play at a very high level in order for them to compete and/or win games. That's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Specially if Jantz is the guy and is still learning the offense. Even with a lot of experience Arnaud was far from consistent. Jantz does have a cool name tho... I'll give you that. His name won't win you any ball games tho.
It seems to me like most ISU fans are unimpressed with Tiller. I guess I just get the vibe that many Cyclone fans would like to see Jantz come in and be the starter; which in turn leads me to believe they don't have a whole lot of confidence in Tiller. If you guys did have confidence in Tiller then you wouldn't be putting so much stock in an unproven JUCO transfer.
I guess my point is at least Vandy has his feet wet and has shown great ability against legit teams. He's actually shown on the field he has the tools to be a special player. He just needs to prove he can handle the pressure of being THE guy. The way Iowa runs their offense gives a lot more room for improvent as well. He doesn't have to come in and do everything in order for them to win games. A heavy dose of Coker can keep any game close.
If I was a Cyclone fan I'd be a little more hesitant when measuring up a guy who hasn't thrown the ball during a major college football game. You really have no idea how he will perform. Plus ISU will absolutely need their QB to play at a very high level in order for them to compete and/or win games. That's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Specially if Jantz is the guy and is still learning the offense. Even with a lot of experience Arnaud was far from consistent. Jantz does have a cool name tho... I'll give you that. His name won't win you any ball games tho.
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homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
Spud -
I agree with you in comparing the disparities in the OL. The two units certainly are closer, relatively speaking, than most Iowa fans would like to think.
However, I think that the "closeness" doesn't have as much to do with the talent of the players as much as ISU's scheme is a bit more forgiving for the OL because mistakes don't get "amplified" quite as much. A quick passing game takes pressure off the OL in pass-pro and the fact that the field is spread implies that the OL usually doesn't have to account for quite as many hats in the box when run-blocking.
Iowa's OL doesn't catch those same breaks. When a guy misses his assignment on a combo-block ... then all of a sudden, we see an O-lineman getting blown up by a defender ... and that leads to the sort of penetration that can produce a sack and/or a TFL.
When Iowa's scheme is clicking ... Iowa's OL can absolute grind on an opposing D. And that can then reap serious rewards in the 4th quarter as the opposition then gets completely worn out. Furthermore, Iowa's scheme has the benefit of being much more compatible with NFL blocking schemes ... so Iowa O-lineman own a pretty nice advantage when they transition over to the NFL.
Anyhow, I'll be really curious to see how quickly Iowa's OL can come out of the gate. I really like potential of the Iowa OL. I think that the group has a tremendously high ceiling. I anticipate that the trio of Gettis, Ferentz, and MacMillan/Scherff can provide Iowa with its most formidable presence on the interior in a long time. Iowa had a really nice interior presence in '08 with Olsen, Bruggs, and Vandervelde/Eubanks ... and I think that the '11 group is even better. Furthermore, the '11 group of OTs is more athletic than the '08 group ... and that helps when it comes to pass-pro.
I think that we finally have a group on the line that can pull off WR screens better than we've seen in a long time. While Bulaga was a moster ... he really seemed to have some trouble getting out and getting a body on his guy.
I agree with you in comparing the disparities in the OL. The two units certainly are closer, relatively speaking, than most Iowa fans would like to think.
However, I think that the "closeness" doesn't have as much to do with the talent of the players as much as ISU's scheme is a bit more forgiving for the OL because mistakes don't get "amplified" quite as much. A quick passing game takes pressure off the OL in pass-pro and the fact that the field is spread implies that the OL usually doesn't have to account for quite as many hats in the box when run-blocking.
Iowa's OL doesn't catch those same breaks. When a guy misses his assignment on a combo-block ... then all of a sudden, we see an O-lineman getting blown up by a defender ... and that leads to the sort of penetration that can produce a sack and/or a TFL.
When Iowa's scheme is clicking ... Iowa's OL can absolute grind on an opposing D. And that can then reap serious rewards in the 4th quarter as the opposition then gets completely worn out. Furthermore, Iowa's scheme has the benefit of being much more compatible with NFL blocking schemes ... so Iowa O-lineman own a pretty nice advantage when they transition over to the NFL.
Anyhow, I'll be really curious to see how quickly Iowa's OL can come out of the gate. I really like potential of the Iowa OL. I think that the group has a tremendously high ceiling. I anticipate that the trio of Gettis, Ferentz, and MacMillan/Scherff can provide Iowa with its most formidable presence on the interior in a long time. Iowa had a really nice interior presence in '08 with Olsen, Bruggs, and Vandervelde/Eubanks ... and I think that the '11 group is even better. Furthermore, the '11 group of OTs is more athletic than the '08 group ... and that helps when it comes to pass-pro.
I think that we finally have a group on the line that can pull off WR screens better than we've seen in a long time. While Bulaga was a moster ... he really seemed to have some trouble getting out and getting a body on his guy.
Tuba Rubin didn't play with Berryman. That DL was Berryman, Curvey, Leaders and Moorehead. The 2011 ISU D should be the best they've had since those four left in 2005.
Hawkeyefan
Well-Known Member
OK, no offense, but the quartet of McNutt, Davis, Herman and Fiedorowicz isn't all that scary. McNutt is the only one who's really done anything and he loses DJK drawing the defense away from him.
I didn't say it was.
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
I understand the sentiment that quartet isn't a priori scary. However, from the legit internal buzz getting generated about Davis, Herman, and Fiedorowicz ... I'm inclined to believe that they'll be capable of being pretty dangerous as they gain more and more experience. Will the quartet necessarily be "all that" by the 2nd game of the season ... perhaps not.
Anyhow, suppose that their level of play is fairly consistent. Then, it's still pretty striking to note that the quartet has a pretty impressive combo of size and speed. McNutt is 6-4, Davis is 6-3, Herman is 6-5, and Fiedorowicz is 6-7. Additionally, Herman and Fiedowicz are able to run as well as and probably better than most the LBs they'll face this year. All that ends up equating to MISMATCHES in coverage AGAINST ISU ... and that even accounts for the fact that ISU has high-quality CBs and LBs who are pretty darn good in coverage.
Most importantly, the quartet will benefit from a running game that will likely be sucking in a lot of hats to the box. That makes it all the more likely that AT LEAST one of them will be able to get open. Furthermore, ASSUMING that Vandenberg doesn't get too rattled ... the quartet has a QB throwing to them who can deliver the ball on a rope. I loved what Stanzi brought to the table ... however, Stanzi simply wasn't that passer that Vandenberg IS.
homerHAWKeye777
Well-Known Member
I agree that the '11 ISU DL will be better than it has been. However, Dutch and Lattimer are easily the best guys on the ISU DL ... and neither of those guys are as disruptive as their '05 equivalents of Curvey and Berryman.
FURTHERMORE, the '11 ISU DL won't have the benefit of teeing off against a mediocre Iowa OL. While the '05 ISU DL was very good ... it remains a FACT that the '05 Iowa OL was pretty mediocre at the beginning of the season. The group had to replace a good bit of talent and experience. Furthermore, the coaches and players hadn't yet worked out the kinks with regard to positioning (i.e. Yanda had not yet switched positions with Jones). In stark contrast, the '11 ISU DL will have to face off against a pretty darn good '11 Iowa OL.
The '11 ISU DL, along with the rest of the ISU D, will likely be able to make the game interesting. However, at the end of the day, I anticipate that the '11 Iowa OL will be able to wear on the ISU DL ... and that will allow for Iowa to break away towards the end of the game.
cmhawks99
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that...I kind of ran with something I saw earlier and didn't bother researching it. I should know better and I questioned whether it was right. I have to tell you I forgot Curvey and Leaders,that was a very good DL. Didn't one of those guys get a free agent contract in the NFL for a year or 2?
I'm glad that DL and our decent but pretty average O-line wont be at the game this year.
Chad
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Hawkfromnorwalk
Well-Known Member
LOL. Sarcasm is awesome!
Very fair. The problem is that comparing those positions to each other doesn't really tell us anything. Even if ISU had the edge at QB, if Iowa Dline was better than the ISU Oline, then that may negate the advantage.
Right when everything was getting rational.
spudhawk
Well-Known Member
@yaman3 I understand what you are saying- just trying to point out a disparity in overall talent. Iowa should have an edge when they have the ball and may have the edge on defense. ISU could have a very good defense before the season is over but do you expect the offense to be more productive than last season? Honest question.
I also enjoyed your recruiting post on CF.
I also enjoyed your recruiting post on CF.
