3 Questions for Mr. Howe

[MelroseHawkins]

I look at it like this. There no other comparison to football than war. Drill sergeants train them to be warriors, much like a strength and conditioning coaches. He has to get them prepared so they don’t get themselves killed. He has no time to worry about their feelings. It’s war! Same in football, strength coaches have to prepare them so there is less likely of a chance that they get injured. Soldiers still get killed, players still get injured. But it’s their job to lessen that possibility.

KF is like a field commander, he has to have a plan of attack. He depends on all of those sergeants have his guys ready. If a soldier went up to the commander and said that those guys shooting at him hurt his feelings, he would just look at him and say, “ Son, you’re gonna die!” This is not a game for boys, it’s a game for men!

I don't know if I'd compare it to war as that seems a bit extreme. I'd hate to minimize what our great soldiers have fought for and for us. Anyway, I think I know what you are pointing out as I've thought the same thing. Strength and conditioning coaches seem to have to get the players pissed to perform at their max. I think they busted balls and they said things they shouldn't have with the intent to get under their skin to both condition them and to make them pump more iron, get them mad. I honestly feel most of it was for motivation and not really racist intent. They crossed the line with players like Kallenberger, though. I truly feel Jack did the correct thing to state his experience as that was over the line.

I think there may be a couple butt hurt players that butted heads with KF so that separate situation was brought into this mix. My take.

 

[RobHowe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but initially didn't these stories come to light because general posts were made by a few players indicating that the staff may not have wanted to address the racial issues with the team. At that point, some no it all fans, people from outside the program, or Iowa City residents began calling them out which led to the stories coming out.

I may be off base, but I think the straw that may have broke the camels back was the fans that accused them of not knowing what they were talking about. They refused to accept their general statements that everything was as harmonious inside the Iowa program, or Iowa City (for that matter) as everyone wanted to believe and came forward because their credibility was being attacked. Maybe, just maybe, this could have been avoided if those individuals would have simply shut their mouths and actually listened. As stated in a number of other threads the players and former players aren't and weren't head hunting or going after jobs, but rather trying to raise awareness of what was going on to promote change within the culture of the program.

It started after KF's press conference last Wednesday, during which he talked about kneeling for the national anthem.


He followed up on Thursday


The next day, Jaleel Johnson and Mike Daniels



Then guys like Amani Hooker and Jordan Lomax weighed in


https://twitter.com/amanihooker37/status/1269795208721506316?s=20

If you read the comments below their Tweets, they were attacked by some people. Iowa did not respond until Friday when Kirk said he started making phone calls to former players and issued his first public statement following a surge of player stories hitting social media.

You can read accounts from more than 50 players HERE.

Here's KF's presser coverage: LINK which includes Doyle's statement

 

[InGoodCo]

I like how white Iowa fans, living in the state of Iowa that is 93% white, with a football staff that is mostly white at a university that is mostly attended by white people that has a stadium full of 95% white people every weekend think they can fairly access this whole situation. According to all ya'll things are fine and I get that, but that's probably not how it is really and I hope you can understand that.

Now, it's not Kirk Ferentz's fault that Iowa is all white but it's his job to make players feel welcome, included and safe while at the U of I. A lot of them have not it appears and I don't get why, even if you are a HUGE Iowa and KF fan, you can't just listen to what these guys have to say. I don't want KF fired, but I want change - it can start with him and I expect it to.

 

[InGoodCo]

This started when KF was flexing about equality and change in culture... doing PSA's, going on Van Pelt, talking about black athletes and talking about kneeling as a team together. He was flexing about it and his former players were like...."uh wait, you got problems right under your nose coach."

To my knowledge, there was not a lot of of overt racism at the UofI - thankfully. It mostly sounds like lessor incidents with a few coaches (mainly 1) & some ignorant comments made by coaches who likely still had their student athletes best interests but still crossed a line. Why is that so hard to admit? Because you think these kids should be grateful and shut up? Because ya think they aren't credible? I don't get the reason to discredit them or their stories. They are Iowa Hawkeyes. The team I cheer for. Their team mates aren't discrediting them. They are receiving support and understanding from their team mates. If you're an Iowa fan and you have an issue with all this and don't want it to come out cause it's hurting your precious football brand - go get bent.

 

[FCAS]

Now that they’ve shared them, there will be an investigation. If Iowa did nothing wrong, that will show. If it did, a decision will be made on punishment based on the findings.

It seems that for everyone except Doyle, the answers are not binary right or wrong. There is a lot of grey area. In this environment, I'm worried that the punishment will skew toward dismissal for anyone with a hint of improper behavior.

 

[InGoodCo]

I would also like to mention. I have said some racist things though out life. Probably more so and more overtly then coach Doyle. I have - I regret it all. I blame my upbringing, which was pretty great and I don't have a lot of bad things to say about and I never did say anything about until much later in life because I was young and didn't know better or didn't recognize the racism until I got out of my bubble...weird I know right? Why didn't I just say something at the time? See how dumb that sounds? I didn't say anything at the time cause I was a child or a teenager at the time and the people who were using the racist remarks were all authority/father/coach figures in my life. I was scared of them all and NONE of them controlled my future like a UofI coach would. I just don't get the part where so many fans don't understand these kid's plight.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I like how white Iowa fans, living in the state of Iowa that is 93% white, with a football staff that is mostly white at a university that is mostly attended by white people that has a stadium full of 95% white people every weekend think they can fairly access this whole situation. According to all ya'll things are fine and I get that, but that's probably not how it is really and I hope you can understand that.

Now, it's not Kirk Ferentz's fault that Iowa is all white but it's his job to make players feel welcome, included and safe while at the U of I. A lot of them have not it appears and I don't get why, even if you are a HUGE Iowa and KF fan, you can't just listen to what these guys have to say. I don't want KF fired, but I want change - it can start with him and I expect it to.

The only thing I find funny about it isn't that Iowa is over 90% white. I don't think that in and of itself should be (not that it isn't but it shouldn't) be a barrier for the proper change to be happening but that within Iowa City itself and the school it's probably what 75%-85% full of liberals? Maybe more most of universities are that way Iowa doesn't seem much different in that way. Liberals will be the first to tell you just how inclusive they are and yadda yadda yadda. Yet here we are.... Iowa is pretty much split between the cities/college towns and the rural farming communities when it comes to politics. Not 100% that way but it's pretty noticeable.

So anyway where I'm going with this is those ultra left leaning folks one would think would be applying the pressure for changes of this sort to be made in regards to things like this. They are who would be leaning on Barta behind the scenes. But Football is such a money making thing that rocking the boat too hard is what Barta would be arguing against having happen. So what wins out? Big money or drastic change? To me it's not that simple but for some they look at it that way.

 

[RobHowe]

It seems that for everyone except Doyle, the answers are not binary right or wrong. There is a lot of grey area. In this environment, I'm worried that the punishment will skew toward dismissal for anyone with a hint of improper behavior.

I sincerely hope that's the case. It's not an easy was job for the investigators. In most cases, it's he said v he said. Not sure if either side as any "receipts."

 

[karras]

I like how white Iowa fans, living in the state of Iowa that is 93% white, with a football staff that is mostly white at a university that is mostly attended by white people that has a stadium full of 95% white people every weekend think they can fairly access this whole situation. According to all ya'll things are fine and I get that, but that's probably not how it is really and I hope you can understand that.

Now, it's not Kirk Ferentz's fault that Iowa is all white but it's his job to make players feel welcome, included and safe while at the U of I. A lot of them have not it appears and I don't get why, even if you are a HUGE Iowa and KF fan, you can't just listen to what these guys have to say. I don't want KF fired, but I want change - it can start with him and I expect it to.

focusing everything thru the prism of race is racist ... also if you were living in a nation in Africa where you were the minority, would you dictate to them how they had to change their culture to fit you? More importantly would they let you dictate their choices? I seem to remember minorities of white people controlling parts of Africa not too long ago and we all agreed that was wrong. Lastly, using the word "fair" is a fool's errand as everyone defines that word differently.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I like how white Iowa fans, living in the state of Iowa that is 93% white, with a football staff that is mostly white at a university that is mostly attended by white people that has a stadium full of 95% white people every weekend think they can fairly access this whole situation. According to all ya'll things are fine and I get that, but that's probably not how it is really and I hope you can understand that.

Now, it's not Kirk Ferentz's fault that Iowa is all white but it's his job to make players feel welcome, included and safe while at the U of I. A lot of them have not it appears and I don't get why, even if you are a HUGE Iowa and KF fan, you can't just listen to what these guys have to say. I don't want KF fired, but I want change - it can start with him and I expect it to.

I'm not really coming across anybody who is not recognizing there are some issues within the program and some evaluation and change is needed. I understand your post, it's just that I'm not encountering anybody who is not believing nothing wrong happened.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

focusing everything thru the prism of race is racist ... also if you were living in a nation in Africa where you were the minority, would you dictate to them how they had to change their culture to fit you? More importantly would they let you dictate their choices? I seem to remember minorities of white people controlling parts of Africa not too long ago and we all agreed that was wrong. Lastly, using the word "fair" is a fool's errand as everyone defines that word differently.

I have a quote I came up with years ago. Years ago children were allowed to say The Pledge of Allegiance the start of each day in school. This was stopped in the 1980's.

"Suppress the majority to appease the minority"

At schools, most likely 95% of the kids were guided by Christian beliefs. Because of 5% of children with non-christian beliefs their parents complained and the pledge was hacked. Just stopped doing it one day. No explanation from the teachers or anything.

I know we try to be fair to everybody. But we live in such a diverse nation that it is almost impossible. So, in the above example 95% of the kids experience saying The Pledge of Allegiance (FOR OUR AND THEIR COUNTRY) is suppressed while the minority is appeased.

 

[Ree4]

I like how white Iowa fans, living in the state of Iowa that is 93% white, with a football staff that is mostly white at a university that is mostly attended by white people that has a stadium full of 95% white people every weekend think they can fairly access this whole situation. According to all ya'll things are fine and I get that, but that's probably not how it is really and I hope you can understand that.

Now, it's not Kirk Ferentz's fault that Iowa is all white but it's his job to make players feel welcome, included and safe while at the U of I. A lot of them have not it appears and I don't get why, even if you are a HUGE Iowa and KF fan, you can't just listen to what these guys have to say. I don't want KF fired, but I want change - it can start with him and I expect it to.

Spot on. I don't understand why this is so complicated for people. Has to be a choice of ignorance right?

 

[karras]

I have a quote I came up with years ago. Years ago children were allowed to say The Pledge of Allegiance the start of each day in school. This was stopped in the 1980's.

"Suppress the majority to appease the minority"

At schools, most likely 95% of the kids were guided by Christian beliefs. Because of 5% of children with non-christian beliefs their parents complained and the pledge was hacked. Just stopped doing it one day. No explanation from the teachers or anything.

I know we try to be fair to everybody. But we live in such a diverse nation that it is almost impossible. So, in the above example 95% of the kids experience saying The Pledge of Allegiance (FOR OUR AND THEIR COUNTRY) is suppressed while the minority is appeased.

I posted in the #MeToo thread, our nations number 1 religion now is self-disgust. We've been demoralized and are on the precipice of losing the country because we've made perfection the goal . . . and since we can't have perfection (because Utopia exists nowhere in the Universe) we need to tear down the country and replace it with something else . . . and that something is hell . . . so the math works this way: If you have a good country that is not perfect then you deserve Hell.

Americans say they hate slavery but they want to KNEEL to the mob ? That doesn't sound like people who hate slavery . . . that sounds like people dying to be slaves.

 

[Fryowa]

I’m not sure why it’s bad that players organizing to tell their stories. They may have needed all those voices together to be heard. I don’t know. Do you care what they have to say?

It's bad because @ChosenChildren 's idyllic white picket fence idea of Iowa football might not really be true, and he's mad so he needs someone to take it out on and demand answers from.

He can't handle truth unless it fits his idea of what the "truth" is.

By writing stories and retweeting players you've basically done the equivalent of telling a little kid Santa Claus isn't real or god doesn't exist and it's made those folks tilt like pinball machines. It's easier to get pissed off and accuse people of inventing narratives than it is to accept that what they thought was apple pie and Eagle Scouts might not be true.

Which is in no way different than Joe Pa deniers.

 

[InGoodCo]

focusing everything thru the prism of race is racist ... also if you were living in a nation in Africa where you were the minority, would you dictate to them how they had to change their culture to fit you? More importantly would they let you dictate their choices? I seem to remember minorities of white people controlling parts of Africa not too long ago and we all agreed that was wrong. Lastly, using the word "fair" is a fool's errand as everyone defines that word differently.

Comparing Iowa players attending the UofI to me visiting Africa, a third world undeveloped country....you're right the word "fair" is a fool's errand.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I posted in the #MeToo thread, our nations number 1 religion now is self-disgust. We've been demoralized and are on the precipice of losing the country because we've made perfection the goal . . . and since we can't have perfection (because Utopia exists nowhere in the Universe) we need to tear down the country and replace it with something else . . . and that something is hell . . . so the math works this way: If you have a good country that is not perfect then you deserve Hell.

Americans say they hate slavery but they want to KNEEL to the mob ? That doesn't sound like people who hate slavery . . . that sounds like people dying to be slaves.

Boy, isn't this right. It's obvious when you have such a diverse society, you aren't going to make everybody happy. You just aren't. That doesn't mean you can be mean and racist to people but it means not everybody will be accommodated all the time. We can't expect everything to be perfect.

 

[Ree4]

The only thing I find funny about it isn't that Iowa is over 90% white. I don't think that in and of itself should be (not that it isn't but it shouldn't) be a barrier for the proper change to be happening but that within Iowa City itself and the school it's probably what 75%-85% full of liberals? Maybe more most of universities are that way Iowa doesn't seem much different in that way. Liberals will be the first to tell you just how inclusive they are and yadda yadda yadda. Yet here we are.... Iowa is pretty much split between the cities/college towns and the rural farming communities when it comes to politics. Not 100% that way but it's pretty noticeable.

So anyway where I'm going with this is those ultra left leaning folks one would think would be applying the pressure for changes of this sort to be made in regards to things like this. They are who would be leaning on Barta behind the scenes. But Football is such a money making thing that rocking the boat too hard is what Barta would be arguing against having happen. So what wins out? Big money or drastic change? To me it's not that simple but for some they look at it that way.

I'm much more worried about outlying areas of Iowa than Iowa City.. Since YOU have to make this about politics, I guarantee you that the people implicated in this story are not left-leaning, I know for a fact that Kirk is not. I'd be interested in seeing political affiliations for all of the blowhards on twitter that were attacking the players, how do you think they vote? You think the people high up at the university or on the Board of Regents are ultra left? Hahahahah

 

[ModebaSan]

Not that you weren’t’ highly credible already, but you just lost 100%. “Their culture?” What culture is that?

Agree or not,

Their culture of no fathers in the homes with 78% single parent households. Their culture of being 13% of the population that commits 50% of the murders in this country. How blacks are being robbed and killed by other blacks. How only 18% of all black high school students graduate. How they are 81% more likely to go to prison instead of college. How they use the “N” word in all their rap videos and talk about women as “hoes.” In every rap video they glamorize the “thug” life. Until I see a major shift in them changing their culture, then I can’t give any credence to how outsiders of their culture view them. No less tell me how I should think or feel about my opinions.

I want them to succeed in life. I don’t want them to be harassed by police. I don’t want to see them killed by police. I have no ill will against them. Their culture influences how people perceive them. Their culture invites police to come after them. It’s really sad that all the good black people have to suffer because of all the negativity their culture brings.

And truthfully I can’t put all the blame on them. It is the leftists politicians in power that enable them to rely on government benefits and social programs that actually keeps them enslaved. I just wish they would, as a people, wake up a see what the leftists are doing to them. But it’s very hard to help someone who won’t help themselves.

The leftists politicians are very good about making “single” issue politics. They got women believing in rape culture. They got minorities believing in overt racism and white privileged. They got the LBGTQ+ believing there are multiple gender identities. But when you try to debate the issues with them, that have no logical arguments. They start berating you and calling you racist, sexist, nazis, and fascist if you don’t agree with them.

So yeah their culture has to change, not my thoughts or feelings. We have to get rid of the radicals on the left and right. We need to start declaring these groups domestic terrorists and start trying them in court on treason charges and of trying overthrow the government. We can’t let them win.

 

[ModebaSan]

I don't know if I'd compare it to war as that seems a bit extreme. I'd hate to minimize what our great soldiers have fought for and for us. Anyway, I think I know what you are pointing out as I've thought the same thing. Strength and conditioning coaches seem to have to get the players pissed to perform at their max. I think they busted balls and they said things they shouldn't have with the intent to get under their skin to both condition them and to make them pump more iron, get them mad. I honestly feel most of it was for motivation and not really racist intent. They crossed the line with players like Kallenberger, though. I truly feel Jack did the correct thing to state his experience as that was over the line.

I think there may be a couple butt hurt players that butted heads with KF so that separate situation was brought into this mix. My take.

I think that is an honest assessment Melrose. And I do agree with you on the Kallenberger part. That kinda shit is really uncalled for.

 

[karras]

Boy, isn't this right. It's obvious when you have such a diverse society, you aren't going to make everybody happy. You just aren't. That doesn't mean you can be mean and racist to people but it means not everybody will be accommodated all the time. We can't expect everything to be perfect.

Let's examine China's Olympic teams . . . anyone see a lot of diversity on those teams? So where's the outrage? It's selectively focused on this country by forces that oppose what we believe in and our geopolitical status. This is a political ideology struggle . . . race is being used in service to a larger and more sinister war.