Worst Iowa team in Modern Era...I still think Lick's teams beat this outfit

Adam said:
I'm not sure that either one of those responses constitutes a single answer. I don't want to argue how bad this team is. I want to argue that you must have an NBA roster to play some damned defense.
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You need a coach and some competitive athleticism more than Cook.

Who on Iowa would start for PSU...maybe none. Who would play much. 2.
 
HawkGold said:
The dont have the atleticism. They dont.

The lack of effort is Barta keeping a poor coach. JV cant play varsity. Pretty easy to see.
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I get that we are not that most athletic team out there. Couldn't agree more....that being said I also know you don't have to be a gifted athlete to hustle down the court after a turn over and disrupt a 360 dunk. Hawks stood there watched and thats the problem as I see it. Watch the tape and you can see 5 guys mail it in. Disturbing at any level.
 
HawkGold said:
You need a coach and some competitive athleticism more than Cook.

Who on Iowa would start for PSU...maybe none. Who would play much. 2.
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You said it. "You need a coach". I say we need a coach also. I believe Cook, Garza, Jbo and even Dailey and Nunge could find starting roles in many of the B1G rosters. I believe that most of said players could be competent to good defensively at most teams surrounded by other competent or good defenders.

When looking at Iowa basketball personnel in this frozen moment of time. It is important to separate the analysis into 2 categories. Offensive merit and Defensive merit. We have a loaded roster of players that qualify for Offensive merit on any roster consistently around the country.

Looking at defensive merit you are hard pressed to find anyone other than Baer that has any defensive merit stacked up to what we can visually confirm night in and night out.

If you follow the logical thread. Throughout basketballs history, the one thing that a coach can directly impact is a teams defensive prowess and tenacity. The harder of the two sides to teach is great offensive ability. Defying common logic Fran continues to have teams that impress offensively and collapse defensively.

One needs look no further than OSU for example. OSU last year had one of their worst seasons with a coach who was disinterested and lacking. The reasons behind the fall of Thad Matta are complex and hard to understand, but the man confessed to this himself. Holtman comes in and takes a team with offensive merit and under performing defense and in 1 summer turns them into a offensive defensive buzzsaw. Swiss army knifing it's way through the B1G.

The moral of the story is that Thad had the team needed to be a contender and the reason they were not a contender was from his failure of coaching it out of them.

I make the direct correlation with Iowa. Fran has the team needed to be a contender. They are simply not a contender through failure to coach it out of them.

For me it has become quite simple to see. Mainly in part because we have seen this story from Fran before. Same story different names on the back of the jerseys. Frankly I believe Fran is a fantastic offensive coach and developer of offensive skills. I believe that to much time is spent in this regard and that not enough time is spent building the defensive foundation.
 
1980HAWKFAN said:
I get that we are not that most athletic team out there. Couldn't agree more....that being said I also know you don't have to be a gifted athlete to hustle down the court after a turn over and disrupt a 360 dunk. Hawks stood there watched and thats the problem as I see it. Watch the tape and you can see 5 guys mail it in. Disturbing at any level.
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Its called dissolutionment when the truth hits. Pem several times tried to force issues. .ending in major fail.
 
Adam said:
You said it. "You need a coach". I say we need a coach also. I believe Cook, Garza, Jbo and even Dailey and Nunge could find starting roles in many of the B1G rosters. I believe that most of said players could be competent to good defensively at most teams surrounded by other competent or good defenders.

When looking at Iowa basketball personnel in this frozen moment of time. It is important to separate the analysis into 2 categories. Offensive merit and Defensive merit. We have a loaded roster of players that qualify for Offensive merit on any roster consistently around the country.

Looking at defensive merit you are hard pressed to find anyone other than Baer that has any defensive merit stacked up to what we can visually confirm night in and night out.

If you follow the logical thread. Throughout basketballs history, the one thing that a coach can directly impact is a teams defensive prowess and tenacity. The harder of the two sides to teach is great offensive ability. Defying common logic Fran continues to have teams that impress offensively and collapse defensively.

One needs look no further than OSU for example. OSU last year had one of their worst seasons with a coach who was disinterested and lacking. The reasons behind the fall of Thad Matta are complex and hard to understand, but the man confessed to this himself. Holtman comes in and takes a team with offensive merit and under performing defense and in 1 summer turns them into a offensive defensive buzzsaw. Swiss army knifing it's way through the B1G.

The moral of the story is that Thad had the team needed to be a contender and the reason they were not a contender was from his failure of coaching it out of them.

I make the direct correlation with Iowa. Fran has the team needed to be a contender. They are simply not a contender through failure to coach it out of them.

For me it has become quite simple to see. Mainly in part because we have seen this story from Fran before. Same story different names on the back of the jerseys. Frankly I believe Fran is a fantastic offensive coach and developer of offensive skills. I believe that to much time is spent in this regard and that not enough time is spent building the defensive foundation.
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We agree on a lot. We are far apart at Dran being a good O coach. Transition maybe. We dont do well in half court.

Iutside Cook they are all role players on other teams. Il, W, and Mn are still better at the positions of the others except JBo.. JBo would be a role player and get signicant time as a 2 next year. The others you mention maybe role players as seniors.

Baer is a Catalyst that might get 8 to 12 minutes if there are good players around him. Baer and Pem belong in D 2. Garza just cant jump and isnt 7 foot.

Ive never understood why Motta undervalued Diopp.
 
Hawkalum2002 said:
Lick's last team wouldn't beat anybody, but his first two would be competitive games. I think the second one would beat us right now. Peterson at point, Kelly and Gatens as shooters, Tate and Cole in the post, with Bawinkel and Fuller off the bench. Tate would have Cook in foul trouble two minutes into the game with his post move savvy. Kelly basically is Bohannon in a lot of ways so they'd balance each other out. If Anthony Tucker is actually playing, that team wins for sure, but I'm not counting him.
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Take out Gatens and You just described an entire roster of “Who is that”
 
I think Garza is a guy that I am most optimistic about...when the rest of the team seems to be packing it in...he still shows heart and hustle. With another year of development...I can see him being very productive as a junior and senior (especially with a PG on the team)

Kriener is also a guy who won't be a rat jumping off a sinking Hawkeye Frigate...still plays hard, the way Iowa players have historically played...win or lose.

I think Bailey also has some upside...would play him much more.

Disappointments...a long list...Moss...Cook...Pemsl...Uhl...

I don't think Baer has been all that healthy...and JB...with the foot issue and playing way too many minutes out of position...just not fair to evaluate either of those.

Fran and the entire staff...they recruited and have trained this group of fundamentally unsound misfits...they all get an F...

Is it the worst team ever... Does it matter...the team is hideous, quitting, and not improving...Fran has thrown the towel in...perhaps a good move...keep it calm...teach fundamentals...try again...he has 15 more years or so to get it right.
 
HawkGold said:
We agree on a lot. We are far apart at Dran being a good O coach. Transition maybe. We dont do well in half court.

Iutside Cook they are all role players on other teams. Il, W, and Mn are still better at the positions of the others except JBo.. JBo would be a role player and get signicant time as a 2 next year. The others you mention maybe role players as seniors.

Baer is a Catalyst that might get 8 to 12 minutes if there are good players around him. Baer and Pem belong in D 2. Garza just cant jump and isnt 7 foot.

Ive never understood why Motta undervalued Diopp.
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Garza is 6'11 so you're kind of splitting hairs there. He also doesn't need to have huge hops. His offensive game is already 100x better than Woodbury's ever was.
 
revkev73 said:
Fran has thrown the towel in...perhaps a good move...keep it calm...teach fundamentals...try again...he has 15 more years or so to get it right.
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LMAO to this. I hope it's not true, but it sure feels like it sometimes
 
Stanzi said:
Garza is 6'11 so you're kind of splitting hairs there. He also doesn't need to have huge hops. His offensive game is already 100x better than Woodbury's ever was.
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I forgot his height. Woody was stronger. He was limited be he didnt get consistently blocked. He is simply not strong and hasnt done much in games with good teams when thr game is relavent. I like the kid. He is badly exposed. Cook needs to be in with him.
 
revkev73 said:
Most often, the Iowa players don't get down into a good defensive position...they stand upright, wait for the opposing player to make a move, then chase and get out of the way of tomahawk jam...or grab for a foul.

And God forbid, that Iowa would play helping defense...

Damn refs...
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This is what I don't understand..this is easy to identify on tape and get in the gym and fix. Yet nothing changes after 25 games. Let's give Fran a lifetime contract that should solve it right Gary!
 
Stanzi said:
Garza is 6'11 so you're kind of splitting hairs there. He also doesn't need to have huge hops. His offensive game is already 100x better than Woodbury's ever was.
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All true, if his defensive position improves and he get stronger, both which I believe will happen, he's gonna be a good one, possibly a great one.

I liked Woodbury, and he was a good defender and had good bball IQ. But he didn't progress a lot, and I could be wrong, but I think Garza will.
 
This years team would win. If it wouldn't of been for the early injuries, and the later injury to bohannon they would of done a lot better. Fran should be able to put a better t3eam on the floor by now though.
 
atomicblue224 said:
Thanks Man! You made me deef and Bliiiind! PMMMF! I was hoping that vidoe was buried long time ago
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It does show a point. He did some amazing things but he didnt belong. It is easier to see at the little guy position. He had to do crazy things to score.

At the bigger guy position we are asking guys to do what they just cant. We are quick to say lack of effort.
 
HawkGold said:
It does show a point. He did some amazing things but he didnt belong. It is easier to see at the little guy position. He had to do crazy things to score.

At the bigger guy position we are asking guys to do what they just cant. We are quick to say lack of effort.
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Good point
 
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