HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Try post 2009. 83 wins to 60. Almost 3 per year. Ever hear of cherry picking?
Wisconsin isn’t more talented than us
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Try post 2009. 83 wins to 60. Almost 3 per year. Ever hear of cherry picking?
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
It was 66 yards. You took away 10 percent.
mopkins
King Kong
Personally I don't know or care if KF is a legend. I think the whole thing is silly and pointless.
But if you consider Hayden Fry a "legend" then it's practically impossible to think Kirk isn't...unless of course you have an agenda. Right now their numbers are practically identical except Kirk has more bowl wins, more top 10 finishes, and more NFL draft picks.
BigD
Well-Known Member
They are only legends in the minds of Iowa football fans. In the real world of college football they are both respected coaches. The program would have to reach true glory to be a legend to the average football fan. Neither coach reached that pinnacle of success. KF could do it if he closed out his career in spectular fashion.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
So just what did he post that was not true? Iowa has an in-state rival in a P5 conference that vies for the same in-state recruits; that cannot be denied. No, the state of Iowa does not produce that many top flight recruits but most grow up being the type of kid that says "I'm going to Iowa" or "I'm going to Iowa State".
And a larger state population base basically means there will be even more and better recruits saying "I'm going to Iowa" or "I'm going to Iowa State". Or haven't you noticed that most of the best recruits come from the most populous states?
Yes, I'd like to win all the games we are "supposed" to win. Yes, I'd like to win the Big 10 West each year. Yes, I'd like to win a bowl game every year. Yes, I'd like to vie for the BCS championship every year. But being realistic I know that only a few programs in the country can vie for the BCS championship every year, I know that every team that goes to a bowl game wants to win said bowl game, I know that every team in the Big 10 West wants to win the Big 10 West, and I know that the coaches want to win every game. But these things can't happen on a consistent basis. And all the complaining, snide remarks about the coaches not caring or being lazy, and singling out of one player or another will not change that fact.
Joshbrown
Well-Known Member
He was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2003. He received the Amos Alonzo Stagg Award, presented by the American Football Coaches Association, in 2005. On December 30, 2010, Fry was inducted into the Rose Bowl Hall of Fame in a ceremony at the Pasadena Convention Center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_Poll
The original 16 members of the poll in 2005 were: John Cooper, Vince Dooley, Pat Dye, LaVell Edwards, Hayden Fry, Don James, Frank Kush, Dick MacPherson, Bill Mallory, Don Nehlen, John Ralston, John Robinson, Bo Schembechler, R. C. Slocum, Gene Stallings and George Welsh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_American_Football_Coaches_Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_football_coaches_with_200_wins
A television sitcom, Coach, aired on ABC for nine years from 1989-1997. The series starred Craig T. Nelson as Hayden Fox, head coach of the fictional Division I-A college football team the Minnesota State University Screaming Eagles.
Former Fry assistants or players who have taken over as head coaches at a Division I-A college football programs include:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_Poll
The original 16 members of the poll in 2005 were: John Cooper, Vince Dooley, Pat Dye, LaVell Edwards, Hayden Fry, Don James, Frank Kush, Dick MacPherson, Bill Mallory, Don Nehlen, John Ralston, John Robinson, Bo Schembechler, R. C. Slocum, Gene Stallings and George Welsh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_American_Football_Coaches_Association
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_football_coaches_with_200_wins
A television sitcom, Coach, aired on ABC for nine years from 1989-1997. The series starred Craig T. Nelson as Hayden Fox, head coach of the fictional Division I-A college football team the Minnesota State University Screaming Eagles.
Former Fry assistants or players who have taken over as head coaches at a Division I-A college football programs include:
- Barry Alvarez, Wisconsin, 1990–2005
- Bret Bielema, Wisconsin, 2006-2012; Arkansas, 2013–2017
- Bob Diaco, Connecticut, 2014–2016
- Kirk Ferentz, Iowa, 1999–present
- Jim Leavitt, South Florida, 1996–2009
- Chuck Long, San Diego State, 2006–2008
- Dan McCarney, Iowa State, 1995–2006; North Texas, 2011–2015
- Jay Norvell: Nevada (2017–present)
- Bo Pelini, Nebraska, 2008–2014; Youngstown State 2015–present
- Bob Stoops, Oklahoma, 1999–2016
- Mark Stoops, Kentucky, 2013–present
- Mike Stoops, Arizona, 2004-2011
- Bill Snyder, Kansas State, 1989–2005, 2009–present
*********************
KF makes in one year what Fry made in 20 at Iowa
KF makes in one year what Fry made in 20 at Iowa
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D
DDThompson
Guest
Phhhfffttt.
I suppose next you’ll say the best place to find Alaska King Crab is off Alaska’s coast and the best place to get pork is from Iowa? It’s almost like your saying people are a resource and the best places to find a resource are where there’s more people.
You’re such a dolt.
Sarcasm alert.
You’re right of course.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
I have not read where any Iowa fan on this board has criticized kirk (or Iowa) for not winning an NCAA championship (I presume that's what you mean by BCS championship); I can only say that I haven't ever criticized any Iowa coach for not winning a NCAA championship, or, expected it to happen. So, that is an overblown statement.
I would like to win all the games we should, also. That's why, when we don't, I, rightfully, criticize. I will not settle for "that's football". Without said criticism, a person reaches acceptance. But note that I also provide all the praise do for a job well done. Why is it not okay to criticize a public figure for poor performance?
You know, the state of Wisconsin has been a larger population state than Iowa for some time now. However, they used to suck really, really bad. But they made a commitment to reach a certain ladder rung. The rung they seek appears to be higher than the one Iowa's program has expressed. All I want is for this program to maximize all opportunities and keep reaching beyond last year. I wonder what would have happened if Iowa had had a NCAA rated high scoring offense in 2015? Would we have won the B1G game; a game we lost 16-13. Would we have had a chance at reaching the stars? Are we actually maximizing every opportunity the Iowa program has?
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Showed just how important the linebacker position is to Iowa. The position group cycle at Iowa is like a sawtooth wave and 2018 will be the bottom of the cycle for the linebacking corps. Most of the other position groups are on the rising side of their cycles. Wisconsin seems to have some sort of parallel development cycle in nearly all the groups, like Iowa has had at RB for the last several years. No fall off at linebacking this year which was just amazing considering the attrition they had going into the season due to injuries. The Badger's weak position recently has been at QB but they seem through that now.
Fry is a legend because he pulled Iowa out of the mud and made them respectable. He took a program that was down for two decades and put them at the top. That earned a lot of respect from those who lived through that time. As Fry was slipping Ferentz came in and brought some of that prestige back. While he didn't have to start from institutionalized failure, like Fry, Ferentz did start out at the bottom of the heap. It took a few years to right the ship but Iowa was nothing like the state it was in when Hayden took the reigns. KF has had a couple more runs similar to his first but never from rock bottom. If KF has one more run in him and leaves while the program is up he will, indeed, be legend.
SmokeTownHawk
Well-Known Member
Yup. Under Barry if a HC stays with his system a jr. high coach from Fennimore could win there. The true test of Wisky's program will be after he draws his last breath on this earth.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
What's silly is you actually think KF is a better coach than HF.
mopkins
King Kong
I guess my point on this matter has always been that the same people on these forums who vilify Ferentz would have done the EXACT SAME THING to Hayden Fry himself at the time had the internet existed. Only they're too dumb to realize it, and now they revere Fry like the greatest thing in the world and don't even realize the irony.
I can already picture the HN forums back in the Hayden Fry days...
1984: "like OMG Fry shared a Big Ten title in 1981 but what has he even done lately? multiple 8-4 seasons? Psh...he clearly isn't the coach to take us to that next level. Time to thank him and move on"
1989: "Fry is washed up. Sure he got lucky and won 10 games back in '87 but clearly the program is now going in the wrong direction."
1992: "Why is Harold Fri still our coach?
1994: "LOL this team will NEVER be at Minnesota's level"
1999: "I heard the Shimonek family recently had a baby. I wonder if baby Nic can play QB for us in 18 years, I bet he'll be a star!!!!"
You get the point. Or you don't...and its sad
#1DieHardHawk
Well-Known Member
I loved Hayden, and I still do, but your point is well-taken. I can definitely imagine what posters would have been saying back in the day. To add to your examples:
'98: Hayden's last season. The torches and pitchforks would have been out in full force on message boards, after losing to ISU, then losing to Wisc and Minn by a combined score of 80-7.
'96: Losing to Tulsa. The internet would have exploded over that one. I can just hear it. "EMBARRASSING!" "What the f**k was that shit show!," etc.
'89: Getting blown out by Oregon and Minnesota by a combined score of 87-13
'88: Losing to Hawaii to open the season
Being not just beat, but dominated and embarrassed in both Rose Bowls.
Perhaps the trend that would have really irritated people would have been his struggles against Illinois. Some examples: '83, 33-0, '93, 49-3, '94 47-7, and '95 26-7. The combined score of just those games: 155-17. Let that number sink in. Illinois had some good teams back in the '90s but it's not like we're talking about Ohio State or Michigan here.
Again, I loved Hayden, but, if people are being completely honest with themselves, he would have been raked over the coals on these sites at about the same level as Kirk.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
good points, bit.
Times have changed, social norms have changed. We live in a world where information is cheap, everyone is an expert, failure is seen in realtime. Revisionist historians believe they know more about the past than the people who lived it. It's divide and conquer baby! The rules have changed.
Fry's legend was born in a different era. Yes he should have taken off his boots earlier. Better to go out on top for sure. Waiting until the end of the season was the traditional (and class) thing to do and, like Ferentz, Fry has class. Let those revisionists debate when Bowlsby knew of his intention to retire therefore triggering the search for his replacement. Now look at the house Stoops built. A year after his departure and the Sooners are in the playoff. Stoops will never be the HC @ Iowa, that ship has sailed. Leaving when he was at the cusp will seal his legend in Norman and beyond. Timing is everything and he left on his terms. Look at the house Barry built. He's still the landlord and we are admiring his property next door. This thread is really the tale of the ADs. Wisconsin is where it is because of Barry Alvarez. You can bet he will hand pick his successor when the time comes and that successor will carry on with the Alvarez system.
The times have changed. We now live in a world where there will never be a shared B!G title. The parity shown in the B!G this year will help drive the prospect of an 8 game playoff. If Harbaugh's cabal wins today (they should) then give the wonks their 3 teams and let the Internet debate it because punching the conference championship ticket should always get you in the dance. As it stands now Wisconsin will play for the West's slot pretty much every year going forward. They will probably make it into the game at least 50% of the time. Without change at the top Iowa will play Wisconsin about twice a decade for a chance to get to the CCG and will get there about once a decade. Does KF have a 4th transformation in him? Legends are made of this sort of thing.
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah...I'd rather have a good guy than a winner. Maybe Lee Corso formerly of Indiana?
HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Both have their foibles with basic decision making for football coaches. For example, Hayden would accept the yardage from a gain of six yards, let's say, instead of a penalty of 5 yards on the opponent's defense making it first and 5. Hayden would rather have second and 4 than first and five. KF, well, KF has a plan that he sticks to for the entirety of his career. KF's plan hopefully wins ball games but does not plan for game situations.
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HomerChampless
Well-Known Member
Wisky's defense is better than Iowa's because their defense plans to get off the field as soon as possible giving more game clock time for Iowa's offense to operate.
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SCHawkeye2
Well-Known Member
Sorry. Wisconsin has more talent.
