Why KF needs to move on. Non emotional opinions.

Not having a 2nd back developed by this point in the season is unacceptable. What do they accomplish by only playing Coker and not getting other guys reps? I would think if nothing else, this staff would have learned they need to deveop depth at RB and that there are probably some guys who can play standing on the sidelines. Nope, let's just double down on the same old same old. Now KF is getting chippy with the media because the only decent win this season came from doing what many of us have been asking for for years....more imagination on offense.
 
HawkeyeDenis said:
And just who do you think will replace KF? Iowa is hardly a dream job for coaches. So you fire the coach that has taken the team to bowl games almost every year for a new coach to do what? Take Iowa to a NC?
KF does more with less. Its hard to get away from a conservative philosophy when the execution isn't there.
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You pay people what Iowa pays football coaches and lots of people get intersted in a hurry. Maybe they would bring an offensive coordinator who isn't living in the 1980's. KF has earned the right to have a couple of lean years, but he isn't helping himself with his bunker mentality and chippy attitude towards the fans. A down year should be 7-5, not 5-7 for a tenured staff. KF is not a good player development guy. He plays his guys to the detriment of the team......ala Hayden.
 
I actually agree with you to a point BSpringstreen, but I disagree with two parts of your main premise.

We are indeed likely heading into another historical lull that will likely continue this season and into next season. But what I feel you're failing to consider is that the recruiting the last two years and so far this year has been better than the three years before it. It takes some time for that talent to find its way to the field, especially on the lines.

I'll give you an example, with Super Cooper and Jaleel Johnson (and Carl Davis, if he ever gets his technique right) Iowa has finally recruited players that are naturally physically ready to play at the defensive tackle position. I think a valid criticism can be made that Iowa should have recruited players like them earlier, but it's not like Iowa can do anything about that now. I'm hoping to see a junior college DT recruited this off season but I'm not holding my breath. I also think there is a lot of potential in Iowa's back seven depth.

There's also quite a lot of good depth and potential at most of the offensive positions sans possibly receiver, in that I don't think Iowa will be able to field a trio as good as this year's for quite some time.

So Iowa will be better again, and maybe sooner than you think.

The second reason I disagree with your premise is to suggest that it will be any different under a different coach. Even if Iowa was to luck out and get another great coach with a decade plus long tenure, that coach still will have lulls just like Ferentz and Fry did. To suggest otherwise would be, interestingly enough, almost blindingly optimistic toward the potential of that coach, and unfair to him.
 
Hawksel said:
I
The second reason I disagree with your premise is to suggest that it will be any different under a different coach. Even if Iowa was to luck out and get another great coach with a decade plus long tenure, that coach still will have lulls just like Ferentz and Fry did. To suggest otherwise would be, interestingly enough, almost blindingly optimistic toward the potential of that coach, and unfair to him.
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Then you've missed my point.

It;s not that I don't think KF can coach or that another coach would do better, it's that I am not optimistic that the same coach can build up the same program 3 times in one tenure.

So would another coach come in and have lulls, of course. I haven't done any research but I doubt you've seen many programs where it goes 3 years up, 3 years down...
 
BSpringsteen said:
Then you've missed my point.

It;s not that I don't think KF can coach or that another coach would do better, it's that I am not optimistic that the same coach can build up the same program 3 times in one tenure.

So would another coach come in and have lulls, of course. I haven't done any research but I doubt you've seen many programs where it goes 3 years up, 3 years down...
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I'm not going to the time to look at the stats and find teams with 3 years up, 3 year down lulls, because we could quote teams to each other as anecdotes all day. I will point out though that the pattern you're describing just happens to coincide with graduation, so I'm guessing that if you take a long view of most programs there are three/four year peaks and valleys.

The only way you can beat a curve like that (or at least minimize the peeks and maximize the valleys) is to 1.) recruit so damn well that there are players just lined up ready to go at every position. 2.) have foresight and develop talented depth that is staggered by class.

I would argue that number 1 isn't true for most except the top 5 pristige college teams in America at any given time. A place like USC (at its peak) where five star QBs are just content to sit around and wait to play. Not likely for Iowa any time soon even with a superstar coach.

For number 2, I think Ferentz could deserve some valid criticism. He's had some periods of heavy player departures and that has made the valleys worse than they should have been.

He also didn't take advantage of last year, which should have been a peak year. Iowa had no business losing to Minnesota and Northwestern last year. They also really should have beaten Wisconsin and probably even the cheating Buckeyes at home. The coaches deserve the criticism they got for that.

Ferentz also could have a better job of maximizing depth on the DL this year. This is another place where departures have hurt Iowa.

But back to your main point, can Iowa rebuild again? I don't see why not.


  • Iowa and Ferentz are respected brands nationally right now. Strong enough, in fact, to survive last year's rhabdo scandal.
  • Recruits equate playing for Ferentz with going to the NFL. There will be more NFL players from this team to back that up.
  • Like I said, the last two recruiting classes have been very good. This most recent one probably one of Iowa's best under Ferentz.
  • Iowa is also very young, although experienced at key positions that will take time to replace (why next year could be bad, too)

    If you think Iowa can't rebuild in a few years even with all of that then you as a fan (I'm speaking of fans in general) probably aren't a fan of Ferentz's philosophy in general, and want him gone for that one reason. Personally, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and let him move on when he wants. When that happens we'll get a great coach and move on.

    Finally, if you got your way and Ferentz did leave after this season, prepare for an even longer rebuilding cycle than the one we're in now, until you get the results you desire, even under the right coach.
 
Your second point is the point I am making. That it is nothing schematic that has caused losses this year, nor is it coaching decisions that you can point to. It is simply, a lack of talent, something that should have been forecast.
 
KF is doing just fine, while a loss is always a sour topic Iowa will learn adjust and do better next game. As for the no huddle offense, yes I wish I would have seen more but is it possible that Iowa isnt conditioned enough to run no huddle all the way down the field? I wasnt able to watch the game as it was unfolding on Saturday, but I heard lots of opinions and people ******** that we played for half a quarter then rolled over. I watched the recording last night and was actually ok with the offense in the first 3 quarters. The defense obviously is a little bit different but everybody knows that our defense lost a lot of talent last year so a down year is to be expected. We had some turnovers and we missed opportunities to get turnovers. Plus the ball was literally bouncing towards Penn State all game nothing we can do about that. When I saw the deflection by the ref I actually laughed.

I really don't want to see people calling for changes to the staff after the first big ten loss to a team thats offense isn't the greatest playing our rebuilding defense or our streaky offense playing a solid defense. Should have we scored more than 3 points of course, should they have scored more than 13? I think they should have. But the game is over, look forward to HC and the purple kitties and wear your black or gold shirt and lose your voice at Kinnick on saturday night. Drop your pitchforks and stop pointing fingers. Football is a team sport and its not just the coaches on the sideline or the players on the field. After watching OSU dominate Nebby then blow it away makes me think more and more that we can win at Lincoln. Seriously! I mean look at how martinez throws! Hes a college QB and he looks like hes warming up for a baseball game. All in all, there is still more games to be played and more beers to drink. Go Hawks!
 
I live in The Lou. Huge Cardinals fan. There's a significant amount of hate for Tony LaRussa around here. While he does a TON of aggravating things, it's hard to argue against his results. There's a ******* radio host around here who hates him, but his only take is to argue that his results haven't been good enough. That's a lot harder to do.

In terms of football satisfaction, I can't think of two other Big 10 teams I'd like to have been a fan of over the last decade. Can't even think of one if you count my natural disdain for OSU.

Just counting Big 10 championships/co-championships...Iowa comes in 'tied' at 3rd behind OSU and Michigan. And all of Michigan's were in the first half of the decade.

Throw in two Orange Bowls (one a win), some incredible New Year's day victories and a run of bowl appearances where we either played the 'reigning' National Champ, or the team that would be the National Champ the following year.

Definitely puts us about as close to the top tier as possible. What's it take to get over that hump? Well, luck can get you there for a season or two. But beyond that, it's just not going to happen unless you paint your field blue...and even then the jury's still out on that one.
 
**** that, Kirk is the captain and has my support no matter what. He coaches football the right way.
 
dagdaj said:
In terms of football satisfaction, I can't think of two other Big 10 teams I'd like to have been a fan of over the last decade. Can't even think of one if you count my natural disdain for OSU.

Just counting Big 10 championships/co-championships...Iowa comes in 'tied' at 3rd behind OSU and Michigan. And all of Michigan's were in the first half of the decade.

Throw in two Orange Bowls (one a win), some incredible New Year's day victories and a run of bowl appearances where we either played the 'reigning' National Champ, or the team that would be the National Champ the following year.

Definitely puts us about as close to the top tier as possible. What's it take to get over that hump? Well, luck can get you there for a season or two. But beyond that, it's just not going to happen unless you paint your field blue...and even then the jury's still out on that one.
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Thank you. I love when guys on HawkeyeNation just ignore all of our bowl wins. "We were 7-5 last year!" they say. No, we were 8-5. We beat a highly ranked and favored Missouri team in the Insight Bowl. I think that's actually pretty cool. We've also won three straight bowl games against major conference opponents (I believe we were underdogs twice), which is something that no one else in the Big Ten can say.

If you want to savage KF over the losses that's fine. But don't pretend like the successes didn't happen or that they are too far in the past to be relevant. Most programs would point to stretches like the last three years as their high water mark. Add '02-04 to the mix and you have a hell of a decade.
 
It is far, far too early to be suggesting KF should step down. We are not a very good football team right now, but Penn State has one of the best, if not best defense in the B1G this year. Inexperienced KF teams almost always improve as the season progresses, that's his specialty. We have two home games in a row (medicine) against very beatable teams, then go to Minnesota, the worst team in the conference. There is a very strong chance that we could be 6-2, with Michigan coming to town, having had three more weeks and games to improve. Michigan's defense is much much weaker than PSU. If we are 6-2 and have shown the usual improvement going into that game, these threads will look alot different. BSpringsteen, my friend, I remember some threads you started not that long ago singing KFs praises. I'm not saying he is without flaws, and frankly he deserves criticism, but its too early in the season to be drawing conclusions.
 
I think people are missing my over arching theme here....

It is not that Kirk Ferentz should be fired
It is not that Kirk Ferentz can't coach
It is not that the game has passed Kirk Ferentz by
It is not that Kirk Ferentz's offensive and defensive schemes can't work or don't work
It is not that Kirk Ferentz hasn't had past successes or that he can't have future ones

It is simply that it is solely my opinion that we face a multi year rebuilding effort similar to 2005-2007. It is that it would be a TREMENDOUS RARITY for one coach to build up a program, take it to heights not seen, lose it for three years, build it back up once again and then repeat the process for a third time all at the same program.

We may not have this downturn that I sense, in which case MissouriHerk, you could be correct and I could be wrong. I hope that is the case.

I like Kirk, and I want him to be our coach. I just look at the potential job in front of him and wonder if any coach would have great odds at achieving that.
 
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BSpringsteen said:
I think people are missing my over arching theme here....

It is not that Kirk Ferentz should be fired
It is not that Kirk Ferentz can't coach
It is not that the game has passed Kirk Ferentz by
It is not that Kirk Ferentz's offensive and defensive schemes can't work or don't work
It is not that Kirk Ferentz hasn't had past successes or that he can't have future ones

It is simply that it is solely my opinion that we face a multi year rebuilding effort similar to 2005-2007. It is that it would be a TREMENDOUS RARITY for one coach to build up a program, take it to heights not seen, lose it for three years, build it back up once again and then repeat the process for a third time all at the same program.

We may not have this downturn that I sense, in which case MissouriHerk, you could be correct and I could be wrong. I hope that is the case.

I like Kirk, and I want him to be our coach. I just look at the potential job in front of him and wonder if any coach would have great odds at achieving that.
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This year isnt done yet. Save this thread for when the season is done. It is very possible that Iowa will be 6-2 when we play Michigan at home. And Iowa has controlled Denard. Everybody knows if he gets popped a few times he starts to go downhill.
 
Many have correctly pointed out that Ferentz has done so much with so little talent. Well, the converse can also be said of him. Ferentz has done so little with much talent (when Iowa can get it).

If Ferentz wants a team dominated by the defense (like Alabama), he'd better get a defense as suffocating as Alabama's defense. Iowa's 2010 defense wasn't close.

In the mean time, Ferentz is going to need more production from the offense. He'll need to allow punt returners to return punts (that means putting a game-changer in as punt returner). He'll need to allow more blocks of punts and kicks. He's going to need to take more chances at the end of halfs.

And somebody on Iowa's staff will need the ablility to recruit. The woe is us, we are Iowa, we can't get any athletes to come to Iowa attitude is not acceptable.

I know some of this is against Ferentz's DNA.
I also know Ferentz wants to win.
 
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Kirk Ferentz can coach at Iowa as long as he wants to coach and has the desire to coach. He is one of the best coaches in college football. I have no worries and concerns.

I do think it is time for Norm Parker to retire. His health is making it difficult on everybody. It is just time. All good things come to an end someday.
 
BSpringsteen said:
It is simply that it is solely my opinion that we face a multi year rebuilding effort similar to 2005-2007. It is that it would be a TREMENDOUS RARITY for one coach to build up a program, take it to heights not seen, lose it for three years, build it back up once again and then repeat the process for a third time all at the same program.
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You show your college football ignorance here. The rare thing in college football is a program that has sustained success. If you were to graph out the wins and losses for most teams over a span of years it looks like a rollercoaster (there is a college football mag that does this). With the exception of a very few programs success in college football is cyclical - KF makes a point of stating this to the chicken littles at least once a year.
 
I don't care if we go 0-12 every year for the next ten years as long as we never lose a game by more than 10 points.
 
latrans said:
You show your college football ignorance here. The rare thing in college football is a program that has sustained success. If you were to graph out the wins and losses for most teams over a span of years it looks like a rollercoaster (there is a college football mag that does this). With the exception of a very few programs success in college football is cyclical - KF makes a point of stating this to the chicken littles at least once a year.
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I'm going to give you a chance to make me eat crow, but you're going to have to do the research.

Take comparable programs since 1980.

Find me programs who have the rolloer coaster of which you speak where the same coach presides over the program for three separate peaks.
 
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