Why KF needs to move on. Non emotional opinions.

[AdamHawk]

I'm going to give you a chance to make me eat crow, but you're going to have to do the research.

Take comparable programs since 1980.

Find me programs who have the rolloer coaster of which you speak where the same coach presides over the program for three separate peaks.

Really dude? Maybe you already knew this but I'm going to post it so the other kids will know too. Really not much data to choose from here...

Of the 6 coaches who have been at their respective universities as long or longer than KF (Paterno, Beamer, Blakeney, Pat Hill, Brown, Stoops), only 2 you could call 'comparible' I guess. That would be Penn State and Virginia Tech. But guess what? They've both had multiple peaks and valleys. So...I guess the answer to your question is 100% of them.

 

[nationalchamps]

I think a big part about being a HC is putting your players in a position to succeed. I don't think putting a 170 pound true freshman in a tight road game in front of 107,000 hostile fans and in which the team around him were executing horribly is a situation in which that player was likely to succeed.

That's what always makes me laugh at posts like this, some people see things so black and white and don't stop to realize that each decision has positive and negative possible outcomes.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you didn't play sports at the collegiate level. Do you really think that 170 lb freshman gives a rat's azz about playing in front of 107k? They thrive on it. They don't pizzzz down their legs like most of you would do.

 

[olivecourt]

Really dude? Maybe you already knew this but I'm going to post it so the other kids will know too. Really not much data to choose from here...

Of the 6 coaches who have been at their respective universities as long or longer than KF (Paterno, Beamer, Blakeney, Pat Hill, Brown, Stoops), only 2 you could call 'comparible' I guess. That would be Penn State and Virginia Tech. But guess what? They've both had multiple peaks and valleys. So...I guess the answer to your question is 100% of them.

Here's Beamer's record:

1987 2-9
1988 3-8
1989 6-4-1
1990 6-5
1991 5-6
1992 2-8-1
1993 9-3
1994 8-4
1995 10-2
1996 10-2
1997 7-5
1998 9-3
1999 11-1
2000 11-1
2001 8-4
2002 10-4
2003 8-5
2004 10-3
2005 11-2
2006 10-3
2007 11-3
2008 10-4
2009 10-3
2010 11-3

As you can see, they've been absolutely locked in since they moved to the ACC in '04. Playing in the Coastal division with Duke, UNC, Georgia Tech, Virginia, and Miami probably hasn't hurt. Of course in today's college football world, he never makes it past 1992. What does that tell you about perspective and patience?

 

[BSpringsteen]

Beamer doesn't have ONE VALLEY. NOT ONE. His 1997 season would be celebrated around these parts as the best we can do.

 

[BSpringsteen]

Forget about being here as long as KF... You could make an argument that Alvarez had three valleys although one only lasted 1 year...

 

[WhitUp]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you didn't play sports at the collegiate level. Do you really think that 170 lb freshman gives a rat's azz about playing in front of 107k? They thrive on it. They don't pizzzz down their legs like most of you would do.

Just curious what's your name and where did you play???

 

[JHHawk]

Iowa has been bowl-eligible for the last ten years,right? That is the standard marker for a down cycle...not being eligible for a bowl would be red flag for a true down cycle. KF has not had a true down cycle as coach. Like Beamer,he as had some good and some better years. Clearly,JoePa has been thru a number of down cycles in the last 15 years.
And of course, Iowa might very well end up winning 8-9 games this year. Would that be a down cycle on the heels of winning 9,11,8 games the three prior years?

This type of thread is why some opposing fan bases laugh at Iowa fans and their delusions of grandeaur. We have won the second most big ten games this decade and we think we should fire our coach because we lost as underdogs on the road at Penn St....whoa...now that is insanity.

 

[olivecourt]

Beamer doesn't have ONE VALLEY. NOT ONE. His 1997 season would be celebrated around these parts as the best we can do.

1987-1992?

But yes, he's one of the best coaches in the country that no one talks about.

As to the '97 season, what's your point? No one's celebrating 7-5 seasons. They're saying that you don't remove a highly successful coach because of a down year. I think Beamer's record bears that out.

 

[JHHawk]

Here's Beamer's record:

1987 2-9
1988 3-8
1989 6-4-1
1990 6-5
1991 5-6
1992 2-8-1
1993 9-3
1994 8-4
1995 10-2
1996 10-2
1997 7-5
1998 9-3
1999 11-1
2000 11-1
2001 8-4
2002 10-4
2003 8-5
2004 10-3
2005 11-2
2006 10-3
2007 11-3
2008 10-4
2009 10-3
2010 11-3

As you can see, they've been absolutely locked in since they moved to the ACC in '04. Playing in the Coastal division with Duke, UNC, Georgia Tech, Virginia, and Miami probably hasn't hurt. Of course in today's college football world, he never makes it past 1992. What does that tell you about perspective and patience?

Beamer averaged 4 wins/yr his first 6 years at VaTech...if Kirk had done that,he never gets past the 4th year.

You think KF would survive a 2-8-1 season in his 6th season? Right.
KF has had Iowa bowl eligible for the last ten straight seasons. That is probably a streak unmatched by anyone but Stoops.

 

[olivecourt]

JoePa's tenure:


Overall

5–5
8–2–1
11–0
11–0
7–3
11–1
10–2
12–0
10–2
9–3
7–5
11–1
11–1
8–4
10–2
10–2
11–1
8–4–1
6–5
11–1
12–0
8–4
5–6
8–3–1
9–3
11–2
7–5
10–2
12–0
9–3
11–2
9–3
9–3
10–3
5–7
5–6
9–4
3–9
4–7
11–1
9–4
9–4
11–2
11–2
7–6
5–1

The guy's been counted out about 6 separate times, including this past week by 90% of Iowa fans. Yet he has double-digit wins in 21 out of 44 seasons (47%). Ferentz is 4 for 12 (33%) in terms of double digit wins, but he also hasn't dropped the stinkbombs that JoePa has (3, 4, and 5 win seasons).

 

[olivecourt]

Beamer averaged 4 wins/yr his first 6 years at VaTech...if Kirk had done that,he never gets past the 4th year.

You think KF would survive a 2-8-1 season in his 6th season? Right.
KF has had Iowa bowl eligible for the last ten straight seasons. That is probably a streak unmatched by anyone but Stoops.

and Beamer. But otherwise, right on.

 

[AdamHawk]

Beamer doesn't have ONE VALLEY. NOT ONE. His 1997 season would be celebrated around these parts as the best we can do.

What are you talking about? What is Ferentz' worst year? 6-6? You act like he has had multiple losing seasons since he took over here. Besides Beamer has had some 8-4 and 7-5 seasons in the ACC which would be pretty comparable to a 6-6 or 7-5 season in the B10.

And I don't recall anyone stating that 7-5 is the 'best we can do'. Just have a little perspective. Expecting BCS bowls every year is not realistic. This vocal minority of people thinking we can do better gets kind of annoying. Ferentz is a coach who not only wins but wins with integrity and in today's college football landscape, that's a rarity.

 

[BSpringsteen]

Your second paragraph above has some validity to id for sure.

 

[latrans]

Thanks for doing the work for me Olivecourt.

BSpringsteen - honestly if you took the time to look you find this to be the case most places.

 

[scourt]

What are you talking about? What is Ferentz' worst year? 6-6? You act like he has had multiple losing seasons since he took over here. Besides Beamer has had some 8-4 and 7-5 seasons in the ACC which would be pretty comparable to a 6-6 or 7-5 season in the B10.

And I don't recall anyone stating that 7-5 is the 'best we can do'. Just have a little perspective. Expecting BCS bowls every year is not realistic. This vocal minority of people thinking we can do better gets kind of annoying. Ferentz is a coach who not only wins but wins with integrity and in today's college football landscape, that's a rarity.

Thank you AdamH. Nice to see there are some level heads still out there.

 

[Section136]

I posted this in another thread but think it could belong here also. I havent read this entire thread so I apologize if this doesnt fit or someone else has touched on these stats but here it is:


The KF era:


92-62 60% Winner
2 Big 10 Titles
2 BCS Bowl Appearances
1 BCS Bowl Win
9 Bowl Appearances
6-3 Bowl Record
4 Top 10 Finishes
1 National Coach of the Year Award
3 Big Ten Coach of the Year Awards
1 Doak Walker Award Winner (Shonn Greene)
1 Mackey Award Winner (Dallas Clark)
1 Outland Trophy Award Winner (Robert Gallery)
1 Lou Groza Award Winner (Nate Kaeding)
1 Davey Obrien Award Winner (Brad Banks)
1 Maxwell Award Winner (Brad Banks)
1 Heisman Trophy Runner-Up (Brad Banks)
2 Big Ten Offensive Players of the Year (Banks, Greene)
3 Big Ten Offensive Lineman of the Year (Steinbach, Gallery, Bulaga)
1 Big Ten Defensive Lineman of the Year (Mitch King)
Numerous All-Americans and NFL Draft Picks

I would be willing to bet that about 100-105 of the 120 FBS teams would gladly trade their program's success and accomplishments for Iowa's over the course of Kirk Ferentz' tenure here. It is ridiculous that the above is not enough to satisfy a vocal minority in the Iowa fanbase.

 

[hawkIhoops]

So part of your logic is giving him credit for individual player accomplishments? How about the years we have screamed for guys like McNutt, Davis, Canizeri, Morris to see the field? This cuts both ways. If KF is unwilling to make changes to his staff, then we will be talking about the good ole days for as long as the regime stays in place.

KOK is about as clueless as O coordinators get and despite my adoration for Norm, we need some new blood. The D has carried this team for years and as we witnessed Saturday, the O is still stuck in neutral.

Stats from 2009 thru Jan 2010

SCORING OFFENSE G TD XP 2XP DXP FG Saf Pts Avg
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. Wisconsin........... 13 52 50 0 0 17 0 413 31.8
2. Michigan State...... 13 47 44 0 0 20 0 386 29.7
3. Michigan............ 12 46 43 1 0 11 0 354 29.5
4. Ohio State.......... 13 44 42 1 1 21 2 377 29.0
5. Penn State.......... 13 47 46 0 0 15 1 375 28.8
6. Purdue.............. 12 42 40 0 0 14 0 334 27.8
7. Northwestern........ 13 40 35 2 0 18 2 337 25.9
8. Illinois............ 12 38 35 0 0 9 0 290 24.2
9. Indiana............. 12 34 34 0 0 14 1 282 23.5
10.Iowa................ 13 35 32 0 0 19 1 301 23.2
11.Minnesota........... 13 33 31 2 0 13 0 272 20.9

 

[olivecourt]

Here's another 20 year run with a lot of success, but it's one that KF has pretty clearly outperformed:

5–6
4–7
8–4
8–4
9–3
8–4–1
10–2
9–3
10–3
6–4–3
5–6
8–4
10–1–1
5–7
6–6
5–5–1
8–4
9–3
7–5
3–8

It's none other than Hayden Fry. KF already has more 10+ win seasons and and an equivalent number of bowl wins. I love Hayden, but it's tough to argue that the highs under KF haven't been higher and that the lows under Hayden weren't lower.

 

[sdschroe]

A coach can't rebuild a program 3 times?

What if I told you there was once a coach who was hired by a program that hadn't been ranked by the AP in 20 years. In his third year he led them to the Rose Bowl, and they won consistently for 6 more years, including another Rose Bowl trip and multiple bowl victories.

Then there were two down years, where the record was barely over .500.

Then the program was rebuilt, and the team again went to the Rose Bowl one season, and followed that up with a 10-1-1 season the next.

The next 3 years were down years though, as the team again struggled to a record slightly below .500.

However, this coach wasn't done, and over the next couple years the team won over 70% of its games, including two bowl wins.

Any guess what program I'm talking about?

 

[Section136]

So part of your logic is giving him credit for individual player accomplishments? How about the years we have screamed for guys like McNutt, Davis, Canizeri, Morris to see the field? This cuts both ways. If KF is unwilling to make changes to his staff, then we will be talking about the good ole days for as long as the regime stays in place.

KOK is about as clueless as O coordinators get and despite my adoration for Norm, we need some new blood. The D has carried this team for years and as we witnessed Saturday, the O is still stuck in neutral.

Stats from 2009 thru Jan 2010

SCORING OFFENSE G TD XP 2XP DXP FG Saf Pts Avg
--------------------------------------------------------------
1. Wisconsin........... 13 52 50 0 0 17 0 413 31.8
2. Michigan State...... 13 47 44 0 0 20 0 386 29.7
3. Michigan............ 12 46 43 1 0 11 0 354 29.5
4. Ohio State.......... 13 44 42 1 1 21 2 377 29.0
5. Penn State.......... 13 47 46 0 0 15 1 375 28.8
6. Purdue.............. 12 42 40 0 0 14 0 334 27.8
7. Northwestern........ 13 40 35 2 0 18 2 337 25.9
8. Illinois............ 12 38 35 0 0 9 0 290 24.2
9. Indiana............. 12 34 34 0 0 14 1 282 23.5
10.Iowa................ 13 35 32 0 0 19 1 301 23.2
11.Minnesota........... 13 33 31 2 0 13 0 272 20.9

How many times do people have to explain that KOK and Norm are running KF's schemes?

If we get new coordinators, NOTHING about the offense or defense will change.