Who plays the 4 next year?

[WindsorHawk]

That would be awesome. I know White and Basabe were on the all Freshman team but I don't remember the last time Iowa had a Freshman of the year.

I still don't think Iowa will have a freshman of the year. But I think 1 of those 4 freshman is going to put up White/Basabe (freshman year) type numbers.

 

[Knight78]

Lots of seniors have before.

Brad Lohaus comes to mind. Inconsistent until Mr. Davis put faith into his play.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Brad Lohaus comes to mind. Inconsistent until Mr. Davis put faith into his play.

And let him play facing the basket...

 

[Knight78]

No one clogs the middle with 2 players. Even when Artis Gilmore and Pembroke Burroughs III started for Jacksonville State in the early 70's and both were 7 footers.

Your notion that 2 players play in the post, simultaneously, is incorrect (unless it's an offensive mistake).

LSU had Chris Jackson taking most of the shots when both Stanley Roberts and the smaller Shaquille O'Neal were both playing in the post area.

 

[Knight78]

There really isn't that many traditional 4(s) in the NBA anymore. Tim Duncan and he is about 160 years old. Randolph is the only other one I could think of. Cousins/Noah are debatable if you consider them traditional 4(s).

And his game still works. The power forward / center with a back-to-the-basket game is a valued resource in the NBA. The problem is no one wants to do that any more. But all of your championship teams in the NBA had a back-to-the-basket threat.

 

[Foval21]

More worried about who we will have to back up Woody. Right now we have no one.

starters will go one of 2 ways unless a frosh shows something or we get a transfer.

A) gesell, jok, uhl, Uthoff, woody

or

B) gesell, clemmons, jok, Uthoff, woody

I prefer the first as it is more similar to the lineup that has gotten us where we are today. But we will see a heavy dose of jok at the 3 and clemmons at the 2 whether they start that way or not.

like I said earlier I don't know who will back up Woody because our only two guys right now that will be here next yr that can are very slender.

 

[HomerChampless]

I think maybe you are trying to envision one of those guys at the 4 directly replacing White's game, but on the offensive end it's not that diffcult to adjust to take advantage of certain players strengths (ie. Uthoff may play the 4 differently than White). Being able to guard other 4's is probably the more important aspect.

No brah. I'm trying to envision Uthoff sacrificing some of his outside game for inside game if he becomes a 4. White put up, what's the figure for this season, 52 3s? If Iowa played a 30 game schedule, 52 3s amount to 1.73 3s a game. You want Uthoff to put up an average of 1.73 3s a game? Who else is going to shoot 3s for Iowa next season? Jok? MG???

Too many players around the post (two if a 5 and 4) would clog up the post and mucks up the offense. Consequently, too many players playing outside (four if a 1, 2, 3, and 4) mucks up the offense and would be easier to defend.

 

[HomerChampless]

Frank Kaminski. End of argument. 4s and 5s can spend a good amount of time behind the 3pt line if they have the talent to do so.

Kaminsky is not a good example. Kaminsky (is a freak) who dedicates a good portion of his offense (and defense) along the post as well as outside. He's good with post moves and when you're along the post, you can't be shooting threes like Uthoff likes and is better suited. Uthoff is not like Kaminsky. Uthoff doesn't have any of the post moves Kaminsky has.

White didn't have many post moves, I'll give you that, but it's also apparent Iowa's 4 will go more to the basket than Iowa's 1, 2, or 3 and Uthoff, if he's the 4 next season, will go more to the basket than he did this season. Will going more to the basket detract from Uthoff's game? Can Iowa afford to allow Uthoff's inside game to detract from his game?

 

[RocknRollface]

Sigh. A 4 - a power forward - goes to the basket with enough regularity and effectiveness to be.. effective. The stature and weight of a player has nothing to do with being a power forward. Seth Tuttle is a power forward. He's got the moves down low and is willing to go to the basket. Charles Barkley would've made a great power forward in the pros (he was one at Auburn). That player from ISU who lost all that weight in his boobies was a good power forward. Still is to some degree - still has those down low moves.

Many on this board want to make Uthoff Iowa's next 4. That means Uthoff has to devote a good part of his game to post play. Also means when down near the post, he can't shoot from the outside. And this is what you want???

Sidenote: while Uthoff learns to be effective in the post, he'll be ineffective. Which means he'll be more comfortable shooting from the outside which means Iowa will have less FT attempts than this season and this is, also, something you want???

Considering that Iowa has a first team all big ten player at the 4 who basically never plays with his back to the basket, is out beyond the 3pt line constantly, and has recently been killing it from 3pt range, would to me suggest that you may not be paying close enough attention.

Iowa hasn't run post looks for its 4 other than a few times a season since Melsahn Basabes freshman year.

 

[RocknRollface]

Barkley was a freak of nature, a 6'4 power forward, with long arms and a gigantic rear end. Backing people down on the block with a gigantic rear end on a iso - the game is no longer played that way. That type of iso basketball was more prevalent in the NBA than college, but even the NBA has moved away from it.

The illegal defense rule was a big part of why the NBA game went that way. Now that its gone the iso game has mostly gone away.

Barkley was also incredibly athletic with huge hops.

 

[RocknRollface]

White forces his way to the basket. Granted, many times he's thwarted. Many other times he's fouled. And an alley-oop is a move to the basket..one of just of few of White's post moves.

Driving to the basket is in no way what so ever a post move.

Seriously, just stop.

 

[RocknRollface]

There really isn't that many traditional 4(s) in the NBA anymore. Tim Duncan and he is about 160 years old. Randolph is the only other one I could think of. Cousins/Noah are debatable if you consider them traditional 4(s).

Not many have post moves any more period.

Pau Gasol probably has the best post moves in the leauge and is technically a 4.

Al Jefferson

Lamarcus Aldridge kind of, he plays back to the basket but its allot of fade away 12-15 footers, which hes incredibly good at.

Nene kind of. He faces up but also has good post moves.

Kevin Love used to play in the post.

Julius Randle will be a good back to the basket player if he comes back healthy.

Thats about all I can think of.

 

[RocknRollface]

Kaminsky is not a good example. Kaminsky (is a freak) who dedicates a good portion of his offense (and defense) along the post as well as outside. He's good with post moves and when you're along the post, you can't be shooting threes like Uthoff likes and is better suited. Uthoff is not like Kaminsky. Uthoff doesn't have any of the post moves Kaminsky has.

White didn't have many post moves, I'll give you that, but it's also apparent Iowa's 4 will go more to the basket than Iowa's 1, 2, or 3 and Uthoff, if he's the 4 next season, will go more to the basket than he did this season. Will going more to the basket detract from Uthoff's game? Can Iowa afford to allow Uthoff's inside game to detract from his game?

Uthoff actually has a much better back to the basket game than White.

Yes White shot 52 3s, he also probably passed on the chance at 50 more wide open attempts, up until the last 5 games of the season when he finally got the confidence to shoot.

Iowas 4s don't "go to the basket more". White goes to the basket because thats what he does, the same exact stuff he did playing the 3 the previous two years. Hes actually shooting far more 3 pointers now at the 4 spot.

White and Uthoff are basically interchange in this motion offense, the only difference is Uthoff is generally guarded by a smaller player allowing him to shoot more jumpers. Next year with slower bigs on him he will put it on the floor allot more and then shoot 3s when they start backing off.

The one difference is against a zone you will probably see Uhl running the baseline with Uthoff either at the high post or at the wing.

 

[HomerChampless]

Indiana had a perimeter game this past season. Had 4 guys shooting from the outside. You want Iowa to have the same type of offense as Indiana with your proposal of the 1, 2, 3, and 4 with Uthoff as the 4? With Iowa's band of mighty outside shooters? Not to mention the lower amount of FT attempts that type of offense will produce?

If Uthoff had a "better back against the basket (than White)", it was because Uthoff was backing down 3s or 2s not 4s. Meaning Uthoff was backing down his man with height and not power moves or strength (neither was White).

Face it, face, if Uthoff is the 4, he is going more inside.

 

[deanvogs]

Indiana had a perimeter game this past season. Had 4 guys shooting from the outside. You want Iowa to have the same type of offense as Indiana with your proposal of the 1, 2, 3, and 4 with Uthoff as the 4? With Iowa's band of mighty outside shooters? Not to mention the lower amount of FT attempts that type of offense will produce?

If Uthoff had a "better back against the basket (than White)", it was because Uthoff was backing down 3s or 2s not 4s. Meaning Uthoff was backing down his man with height and not power moves or strength (neither was White).

Face it, face, if Uthoff is the 4, he is going more inside.

How about Wisconsin's swing motion offense that plays with 4 out, that is a pretty good offense isn't it? Lets look at that offense, I mean that would be absolutely CRAZY to imagine Uthoff in this type of offense with Uthoff as the 4 (oh yeah Bo Ryan had Uthoff as his 4, and thought this might work out ok for them). You are crazy outdated on your idea of what a 4 or PF is in todays college BB game. Bo has been doing this for 15 years and more. The 4 hasn't been a traditional 4 in a long time.

Coach Ryan developed his Swing Offense at UW-Platteville. The Swing offense is a 4-out patterned offense that has continuity. All five players are interchangeable, and spacing, screening, cutting and good passing are paramount. All five players learn to post up inside.

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/BoRyanSwingOffense.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMji_Oz9fUk

 

[RocknRollface]

Indiana had a perimeter game this past season. Had 4 guys shooting from the outside. You want Iowa to have the same type of offense as Indiana with your proposal of the 1, 2, 3, and 4 with Uthoff as the 4? With Iowa's band of mighty outside shooters? Not to mention the lower amount of FT attempts that type of offense will produce?

If Uthoff had a "better back against the basket (than White)", it was because Uthoff was backing down 3s or 2s not 4s. Meaning Uthoff was backing down his man with height and not power moves or strength (neither was White).

Face it, face, if Uthoff is the 4, he is going more inside.

Next game, pay attention to where White is and what he does on offense. He spends just as much time in the perimeter as does Uthoff.

 

[PCHawk]

Next game, pay attention to where White is and what he does on offense. He spends just as much time in the perimeter as does Uthoff.

This has already been said like 5 times in this thread. No idea why he keeps ignoring it.

 

[lightning1]

LSU had Chris Jackson taking most of the shots when both Stanley Roberts and the smaller Shaquille O'Neal were both playing in the post area.

The coach of that team should have been drawn and quartered, for allowing that to go on. What a waste.

 

[Knight78]

Considering that Iowa has a first team all big ten player at the 4 who basically never plays with his back to the basket, is out beyond the 3pt line constantly, and has recently been killing it from 3pt range, would to me suggest that you may not be paying close enough attention.

Iowa hasn't run post looks for its 4 other than a few times a season since Melsahn Basabes freshman year.

I beg to differ. White has had a lot of post ups this year, especially in our run in the last six games. Against Indiana and Penn St we were running high/low to White as the low post and Woody feeding him perfect passes. When we played Nebraska and Rutgers he was posting up and making moves across the middle. He didn't get such looks against Northwestern as Olah rarely leaves the lane (on defense or offense).

He DOES get back-to-the-basket sets, especially when there is a mismatch; we have finally began to take advantage of those mismatches.

 

[Knight78]

The coach of that team should have been drawn and quartered, for allowing that to go on. What a waste.

In Dale Brown's defense, Chris Jackson shot 48% from the field and averaged almost 30 points a game. Both O'Neal and Roberts were excellent offensive rebounders and had great FG% but it was the SEC that first used the "Hack-a-Shaq" defense. Both O'Neal and Roberts shot about 40% from the line in college.

Jackson's game didn't translate well to the NBA as he was a short, scoring point guard who basically shot mid-range jumpers. Roberts was often injured or coming off an injury; he did get drafted and did play in the NBA but again, was often injured. O'Neal was a great pro because of his size, strength and athleticism, and he managed to play most of his career without a major injury.