Who plays the 4 next year?

With Fran's motion offense there's never really 2 people in the post at the same time anyway. That's why the Gabe/Woody experiment never stuck. So the 4 in Fran's offense isn't a pure post player in the first place. Think about how many times Aaron White gets thrown the ball beyond the arch. Probably 75% of the time if you don't count the alley-oops. The 4 in Fran's offense needs to be able to drive the ball to the hole and finish or get fouled and also hit the 10 foot jumper. Uthoff can fill in there, and hopefully Uhl and Wagner can do that as well.

The biggest need next year is a Center who can backup Woody. I think they'll go hard after a post player transfer/JUCO who they really believe can come in right away and backup Woody. They can't really sell a starting gig, but they can point to Gabe's minutes (and hopefully 6th man of the year award) and show that the guy will still play a who ton of minutes.
 
The four is a problem, but the 5 might be bigger. We know Woody is not a star and tends to get in foul trouble ( so slow) who plays the 5 when he is out?

i like the idea of pressure D and pushing the tempo with any five that doesn't include him.
 
The 5 will be the problem for sure.

I don't know how many minutes Woody can log and I don't know anyone else that can play that spot.
 
My worry isn't the 4 position on the offensive end. It's on the defensive end. We killed teams inside that didn't have the post presence and struggled against teams that did. We'll be on the other end of that next season. Teams like Purdue will pound it into the paint, get Woody in early foul trouble. Then we'll have problems.
 
Fran will play the best 5 and adjust positions accordingly. There’s little difference between the 3 and 4 in a motion offense anyways.
 
lightning1 said:
Nicholas Bear? Will Uthoff and Uhl end up in some hybrid role? I don't know if either are big enough to defend a classic 4. Can Ukah play the 4?
Just curious what people's thoughts are?
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This exact same discussion was had last year about who would play the 4 because Aaron White was to small to guard "classic" 4s.

Heres a list of power 4s in the conference this year.

1. Nigel Hayes
2. Some guy on Ruttgers who sucks.


Uthoff will be our 4 next year.
 
STILLBUSTER said:
While I expect (hope) this will ultimately be the case, the first attempt to build the 4 will be with Uhl. He was the main sub for White at the 4, this year.

Ideally, you just get 30+ from JU and it really doesn't matter if at the 4 or the 3. You can still emphasize his outside shooting from the 3 with Woody, Uhl, Jok and Clemmons / Gesell. Would love to see him assume the role of White against the zones -- sneak in from the back-side baseline for the lob-dunk, by going Woody, Jok, Gesell, Clemmons.

Looking at next year, the bigger concern is who is going to be the backup 5. While Woody works hard, I can't see him out growing his incredible inconsistency to produce.

It's one thing to have the guards have an off night -- you still have Uthoff and Jok to offset that. It's quite scary to think that the entire team will go as Woody goes. Based on this year, it's a crap shoot, or, at best, 2 forward / 1 back. Hopfully, either Moss or Fleming can contribute to allow JU to help out inside, when those inevitable nights occur.
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Lots of seniors have before.
 
HomerChampless said:
Which leads to the bigger problem, IMO. Who's gonna go to the basket in 2016? Who's gonna give Iowa all those FT chances in 2016? Woody? He'd better become a better inside player. Uthoff? An outside guy? Who? IMO, Iowa FTs will be wildly lower than 2015 with Whitey and Gabe gone.
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Why do we have to shoot allot of freethrows? What if we spread the floor out with 4 guys that can shoot from the outside and make allot of 3s and layups?

We've had this discussion every year since Fran got here, how will we replace Cole, then Gattens then Marble? Every year the team has gotten better. Now its how will we replace White?

It will be a different team next year, there are lots of ways to play basketball, well just have to see how it works.
 
RocknRollface said:
This exact same discussion was had last year about who would play the 4 because Aaron White was to small to guard "classic" 4s.

Heres a list of power 4s in the conference this year.

1. Nigel Hayes
2. Some guy on Ruttgers who sucks.


Uthoff will be our 4 next year.
Click to expand...
I remember the conversation a lot differently than you do. I recall most people saying that White should have been playing the 4 all along, as he wasn't quick enough or a good enough shooter to be an effective 3.
 
lightning1 said:
My worry isn't the 4 position on the offensive end. It's on the defensive end. We killed teams inside that didn't have the post presence and struggled against teams that did. We'll be on the other end of that next season. Teams like Purdue will pound it into the paint, get Woody in early foul trouble. Then we'll have problems.
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Teams like Purdue? Who would that list include in conference other than Purdue?

Theres one team in conference who has a bigger center than us next year, Purdue.

Theres one team with a banger 4 thats any good. Wisconsin.

You can't ever match up perfectly with every team.

Uthoff as our 4 will provide more problems for opponents than vice versa.
 
lightning1 said:
I remember the conversation a lot differently than you do. I recall most people saying that White should have been playing the 4 all along, as he wasn't quick enough or a good enough shooter to be an effective 3.
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There was more than one view point in the conversations.

I was definitely pro White at the 4 but there were plenty of people convinced he was too small to play the position. Which of course was ridiculous if you actually payed attention to what players were playing on other teams.

Just like this.
 
The traditional "4" or Power forward is gone from todays game anyway. How many good ones are in the B1G anyway? Hayes is all I can think of, and he is only 6'7 but is strong. You don't have to have a 6'9, 6'10 power forward, you need a guy who can defend in space and can still rebound (White, Uthoff, Uhl). That is who Fran seems to prefer to recruit

It seems to me Fran prefers to build his roster around to have these types of players:

Forwards he seems to prefer length and the versatility of a stretch 4 type over a back to the basket type (White, Uthoff, Meyer, Uhl)
Wing he likes to bring in 6'5 or 6'6 wings that are athletic and can create their shot, a Marble, Jok, Moss, Hutton
3 Pt. specialists he likes two shooters on the roster Ogs, Ellingson, Fleming
PG he likes to have 2 PG, and possibly even 3 of them
C he seems to like 2 true C's on the roster

How many "true power forwards" has Fran recruited? Not many that I can think of, and the reason is you just don't need them in todays game.
 
RocknRollface said:
This exact same discussion was had last year about who would play the 4 because Aaron White was to small to guard "classic" 4s.

Heres a list of power 4s in the conference this year.

1. Nigel Hayes
2. Some guy on Ruttgers who sucks.


Uthoff will be our 4 next year.
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Will Hayes even spend much time at the four next year? I don't know what Wisconsin has coming in but without Kaminski, it wouldn't surprise me to see Hayes be the five man in a lot of lineups for them next year.
 
Sigh. A 4 - a power forward - goes to the basket with enough regularity and effectiveness to be.. effective. The stature and weight of a player has nothing to do with being a power forward. Seth Tuttle is a power forward. He's got the moves down low and is willing to go to the basket. Charles Barkley would've made a great power forward in the pros (he was one at Auburn). That player from ISU who lost all that weight in his boobies was a good power forward. Still is to some degree - still has those down low moves.

Many on this board want to make Uthoff Iowa's next 4. That means Uthoff has to devote a good part of his game to post play. Also means when down near the post, he can't shoot from the outside. And this is what you want???

Sidenote: while Uthoff learns to be effective in the post, he'll be ineffective. Which means he'll be more comfortable shooting from the outside which means Iowa will have less FT attempts than this season and this is, also, something you want???
 
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HomerChampless said:
Sigh. A 4 - a power forward - goes to the basket with enough regularity and effectiveness to be.. effective. The stature and weight of a player has nothing to do with being a power forward. Seth Tuttle is a power forward. He's got the moves down low and is willing to go to the basket. Charles Barkley would've made a great power forward in the pros (he was one at Auburn). That player from ISU who lost all that weight in his boobies was a good power forward. Still is to some degree - still has those down low moves.

Many on this board want to make Uthoff Iowa's next 4. That means Uthoff has to devote a good part of his game to post play. Also means when down near the post, he can't shoot from the outside. And this is what you want???
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Tuttle plays 5 for UNI. Plenty of teams use their 4 to help space the floor as well, there are very few teams that consistently run an offense with two post players anymore. White gets plenty of looks from 3 at the 4 spot, he just hasn't taken them until recently. Your post is a very outdated notion of what a 4 should be.
 
HomerChampless said:
Sigh. A 4 - a power forward - goes to the basket with enough regularity and effectiveness to be.. effective. The stature and weight of a player has nothing to do with being a power forward. Seth Tuttle is a power forward. He's got the moves down low and is willing to go to the basket. Charles Barkley would've made a great power forward in the pros (he was one at Auburn). That player from ISU who lost all that weight in his boobies was a good power forward. Still is to some degree - still has those down low moves.

Many on this board want to make Uthoff Iowa's next 4. That means Uthoff has to devote a good part of his game to post play. Also means when down near the post, he can't shoot from the outside. And this is what you want???

Sidenote: while Uthoff learns to be effective in the post, he'll be ineffective. Which means he'll be more comfortable shooting from the outside which means Iowa will have less FT attempts than this season and this is, also, something you want???
Click to expand...


There's a pretty big difference between saying "that's what we want" and "we will be fine".
 
No one clogs the middle with 2 players. Even when Artis Gilmore and Pembroke Burroughs III started for Jacksonville State in the early 70's and both were 7 footers.

Your notion that 2 players play in the post, simultaneously, is incorrect (unless it's an offensive mistake).
 
And we won't be fine with Uthoff at the four, either. Taking arguably the best outside shooter Iowa has and forcing him inside where he's not so good is not fine for Iowa.
 
HomerChampless said:
No one clogs the middle with 2 players. Even when Artis Gilmore and Pembroke Burroughs III started for Jacksonville State in the early 70's and both were 7 footers.

Your notion that 2 players play in the post, simultaneously, is incorrect (unless it's an offensive mistake).
Click to expand...

Are you arguing with yourself now?
 
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