hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
Where did he live before that? I'm guessing it's not Ohio, Indiana or Michigan.
Where Hawkeyes Head After Missing Out on D.J. Carton
- Thread starter RobHowe
- Start date
Where did he live before that? I'm guessing it's not Ohio, Indiana or Michigan.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
an argument that can never be proved or disproved.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
Tyler Cook = National Rank #72.
Luka Garza = National Rank #105.
Jack Nunge = National Rank #125.
Adam Woodbury = National Rank #46.
Mike Gesell = National Rank #86.
Note: Peter Jok was considered #1 in his class until knee and ankle injuries almost cost him his shot at even playing college hoops.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
I know what you're saying, but his loyalty/love for the Hawks is well known.
("I grew up liking the Hawks and I dreamed of playing for them," Joe said.)
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...igh-school-iowa-hawkeyes-basketball/29712349/
("I’ve always been a Hawkeye fan")
https://qctimes.com/sports/high-sch...cle_04a8e1cc-b90f-5216-8063-2132382587d9.html
("Growing up a Hawkeye fan and always dreaming of playing for the Hawks, proximity to home was a big thing for me," Wieskamp said.)
https://www.hawkcentral.com/story/s...owa-basketball-recruiting-muscatine/28758267/
My biggest complaints with Fran as a coach isn't recruiting misses. It's that he isn't a great game coach. He isn't great at making adjustments in game to what the opponent is doing and when we do have a good thing going and the other team adjusts we keep trying to do the same thing instead of countering the opposing adjustment. Also he has shown very little ability to develop the talent that he gets. Players for the most part seem to top out by junior or even sophomore years. Of course there are exceptions like Aaron White and Gabe Oleseni and a few others but as far as role players go many seem to be a flash in the pan that get expectations up but then under perform. That list is far longer than the continual improvement list.
My point is recruiting failures can be overlooked if your a good game management coach and can develop players. Fran hasnt proved himself to be good at any of the three.
My point is recruiting failures can be overlooked if your a good game management coach and can develop players. Fran hasnt proved himself to be good at any of the three.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
With all due respect, many Hawkeye fans have gotten a taste of what a real basketball program is supposed to be like but those fans would have to be well into their thirties and older. And they have come to expect more than two decent NIT runs and three NCAA victories since the turn of the century.He wouldn’t have been a good fit because we are a fourth place team at best and he could have made us a top two team during his time at Iowa. This could have led to serious problems for Fran as fans would have gotten a taste of what a real basketball program is suppose to be like and then come to expect it more often. So with D.J. out of the picture we won’t ever have to worry about this type of stress in hawkeyeland.
I know there was some sarcasm in your post, but we have the exposure, the facilities, and the fan interest, if not student interest, to do better than that.
Too bad one key person doesn't seem to see that sentiment. Not mentioning Gar by name or anything
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
but we also heard that DJ grew up a hawkeye fan.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
("But unlike Wieskamp, who grew up an avid Hawkeye fan, Carton did not have any particular allegiance.")
https://qctimes.com/sports/high-sch...cle_680a62cb-c199-5abf-8fc3-7fa7d1d1f0fe.html
Right it seems like common sense. What if 4 months ago Fran gave up on him just because he had a gut feeling.. The fans would have destroyed him for that. Or didn't go after him hard because he didn't feel he had a chance. I think in that case he would have rightfully been ripped apart but he didn't. He took the biggest bat he had to the plate and swung and missed. You can be mad he missed but don't be mad he swung.
hawkewilly
Member
Did anyone else watch those highlight tapes for Hutchens and Gordon and think
"wow, they sure don't make high school point guards like the used to.."
Because, same.
"wow, they sure don't make high school point guards like the used to.."
Because, same.
I actually agree with this. Not getting Carton isn't crazy and not unexpected. No offense to Hutchins and Gordon, but one is ranked 294th and the other is not rated at all. Gordon might be the result of being primarily a football prospect for a while. These are guys that are expected to probably commit to a school based on what happens in the next 3 weeks.
Obviously their ratings could improve and likely will over the next few weeks. But we're talking a huge dropoff there.
Adam
Well-Known Member
Try to understand, I am not knocking these guys. These are the guys that Iowa can get and can win with, but not a single one of them is a blue chipper. Fran has recruited and offered 20+ top 25 kids in his time at Iowa and has landed none. That is in fact the definition of failure and might also match up well with the definition of insanity.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I agree with your take on Fran's in-game coaching. I think he and his staff's ability to gameplan an opponent is 2nd to none. They really excel at that. But when a team comes out doing something unexpected or when the game is on the line at the end, Fran and staff are completely lost. Hence our god awful record in games decided by one possession in the last minute.
I don't necessarily agree with your take on the staff's ability to develop talent. Aaron White was a nobody heading to a G5 school and he turned into a 1st team All Big Ten player. Dev was a legacy recruit who no one else really wanted that turned into a 1st Team All Big Ten player. Uthoff was a skinny kid who was redshirting (no one that's got any talent is redshirted in college basketball) at Wisky and transferred back home and turned into a 1st Team All Big 10 player. JBo is going to set pretty much every offensive backcourt record, Olesani was an All Defensive player, Bear Cage was 6th man of the year, etc, etc. Have there been misses? You bet. But I think there were many more developmental hits during his tenure.
At the end of the day, Fran's inability to build on in-season success (see the 3 year period from 2013-2014 thru 2015-2016) is what is ultimately going to doom his tenure here.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
a common thread that i've been weaving is that PG is THE position that fran has recently failed at. we saw last season the importance of high level PG play in the B1G, last season. we can see that fran was building the program towards being a tournament regular. but when gesell and sapp graduated, and fran started "missing" on pg's, we see the fall off. yes, fran has to fix it, but no, he isn't a horsesh*t coach or recruiter. he's had some back luck and had to walk away from a top target, late, and that has hurt. i didn't list trey dickerson because he didn't stay, but he was ranked as the #1 juco pg at the time he committed to iowa.
the above is why i've given fran the benefit of the doubt for last season, but i won't allow it to be an excuse. fran needs to turn it around this season. but i am looking at the totality of events to see how we arrived at 14-19 last season.
Adam
Well-Known Member
Ya I don't think he is a horseshit coach or recruiter either. I think he is punch drunk and seeing stars. 5 of them to be exact. He is in fact window shopping his recruiting time and resources on elite prospects. That's great if you can land 1 every few years. However it is a game of roulette and the penalty can and maybe is what we experienced last season.
Side note. Fran does seem to get these studs at least vaguely interested and it's rumored that we have been red hot close on a couple. Best thing Fran can do for himself is get Cook, Moss and Garza into the NBA. If he can do that then he might actually see some success with a few of these elite recruits. If he can't then he is still selling a pipe dream. He has to show he can develop the skills necessary to make guys pro's. It's pretty much now or never.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
i agree fran needs to get a couple into the NBA. that always helps a program.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
It's not the "swinging" part that's his problem. It's how he swings. He should target 4 or 5 PGs that he likes and offer all of them a scholarship. Then spend plenty of time recruiting them all and take the first 1 that accepts the ride. Right now Fran is recruiting 1 or 2 guys at a time for 2+ years, missing, then scrambling around trying to find a lukewarm body at the last minute. Mark my words, Fran will end up with some 6'5 tweener project.
RobHowe
Administrator
Somewhere in Illinois. Can’t remember the town.
Point is he didn’t grow up in Iowa or as a Hawkeye fan.
Cook is the big one. He's a high-major guy who Fran sold on getting into the NBA as the star of a team. If he goes in the first round, it will be after an NCAA run and could instantly turn around our recruiting woes. If he isn't drafted this year, then I think Connor and two of Wieskamp, Fredrick, and Nunge will have to pan out as all-big ten caliber players in order for Fran's tenure to continue long enough to find out about Garza and Moss.
Didn't he have offers out to the kids that ended up going to Stanford and I'm pretty sure there was another one or two as well besides DJ that had offers that recently had made their choices. So if your talking about only offering one or 2 more it's almost splitting hairs. Look DJ as a local kid was someone he HAD to go all in on. He'd have gotten destroyed more if he didn't or pulled out prior to what ended up happening. There's no debating that I feel. So yeah he's either going to 'settle' on one of the leftovers or sit on the scholly for another year. Now that that domino has fallen we'll see if he even has a snowballs chance of getting Brooks or Foster the year after. Not getting Carton makes that tougher and even more important... A pretty difficult combination to try and maneuver. Fran has his work cut out for him that's for sure
