Where Hawkeyes Head After Missing Out on D.J. Carton

WindsorHawk said:
DJC is good...quite possibly elite. He would have had a special year at Iowa...and likely been gone. It's not as if he was going to stay 4 years and win a couple National Championships.
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I'm sure he is a legend in his own mind, and maybe in the mind of a lot of the fans, but I wouldn't think he will end up in the NBA unless he proves himself first. He might not even ever start at Michigan, Ohio State, or Indiana. Those guys always get four or five star players. I hope the best for the guy and any other person, but I wouldn't call myself a fan of the guy.
 
WindsorHawk said:
Fran already turned things around. There is far more evidence that last year was a fluke than the norm if being totally objective and making comments based on Iowa's record and the season by season progression...prior to last year.
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The problem is the lack of consistent evidence. We kind of went through the same thing with KF. He started out great and then floundered for a few years from 05-07 and people were calling for his head, but he righted the ship, had success and then floundered for a few years with more talent before having arguably his best season as a coach and a lot of momentum going forward. Now we know what we're getting with him and we see reason for optimism.

I'd argue that things turn around a lot more quickly in the basketball realm where one player can make or break a team. Fran has had his floundering stint, which I'd argue was only last year because Jok's senior year was a lot of fun with how young of a team we had. There was a sense we could win on any given night. And I'd agree there are more reasons to suggest that last year was a fluke (Pemsl's health, Connor's health, Bohannon's health, CW's departure). But this is Fran's year to prove it. For better or worse, he has the team he built. A team of battle tested, but perhaps not battle hardened Juniors. IMO, in a developmental program like we claim to have, if you have a core of upperclassmen, it should mean a tournament run both years. I love Fran and I truly believe we will do it this year, but I love the Hawks more and it's time for Fran to coach for his job.

(Side note, this would be the best time for Fran to part ways with Iowa if we don't make the tournament. Both of his kids playing for his next school would be an instant boost to any mid major and would allow him to be competing for conference titles year 1. Couple that with a proven track record coaching at that level and some moderately high level success a few years back and he'd have great prospects for a more appreciative fan base with a similar salary.)
 
I know it's limited and all, but I saw DJC play two games against Muscatine. In both games Wieskamp drove around him like he had lead in his shoes and easily shot threes over him - he never guarded Wieskamp inside. The Muscatine guards couldn't stop him from driving (in all honesty, Muscatine's guards couldn't stop anyone in the conference from driving) but DJC had many open shots at the elbow and clanged them. He did get his points but most were on drives to the basket (away from Wieskamp's side) - in the games I watched he didn't shoot 50%. He had good handles but wasn't crisp in his passing. Defensively he dominated Muscatine's guards (but most every other team in the conference did as well). So color me as "not impressed" with what I saw in person. His highlight reels look good, but aren't all highlight reels supposed to make the player look good? Brady Ellingson looked like a world beater in his highlight reels.
 
Knight78 said:
I know it's limited and all, but I saw DJC play two games against Muscatine. In both games Wieskamp drove around him like he had lead in his shoes and easily shot threes over him - he never guarded Wieskamp inside. The Muscatine guards couldn't stop him from driving (in all honesty, Muscatine's guards couldn't stop anyone in the conference from driving) but DJC had many open shots at the elbow and clanged them. He did get his points but most were on drives to the basket (away from Wieskamp's side) - in the games I watched he didn't shoot 50%. He had good handles but wasn't crisp in his passing. Defensively he dominated Muscatine's guards (but most every other team in the conference did as well). So color me as "not impressed" with what I saw in person. His highlight reels look good, but aren't all highlight reels supposed to make the player look good? Brady Ellingson looked like a world beater in his highlight reels.
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Thanks for the first hand take on him. A lot of recruiting is projecting as well though. When they start watching these kids on these summer AAU all star type of teams is when coaches seem to put more stock into evaluating them. Because they get to sit and watch them for one thing compared to during their own season they just can't other than on tape. To me and this is just me but I think losing out on Carton doesn't hurt us as much as not having him for next yr would be but the domino effect of landing other recruits goes... I think getting him would have increased our chances with both Brooks and Foster... The two main studs I'd have liked to get. Now I'd be surprised if we land either of them... Ugh..
 
Well, since Patrick Mac was leading the recruitment here...we may want to help him a bit and win some games this year. Winning will cure all ills. Fran needs to land a Juco point guard who can play...get the team to tournament and recruiting will pick up. Nobody wants to be watching basketball at the end of March...they want a shot.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
In a lot of ways Fran can't win. I mean he HAD to go all out trying to get Carton. No if ands or butts. But some on here made it sound like he shouldn't have because it was 'obvious' he was never coming to Iowa. Well till last night that didn't seem to be the case and Fran had to keep trying. You can't land him if you aren't trying. So I for one am not going to kill Fran over that. I'm surprised OSU is on his list still. Indiana sorta makes sense and so does Michigan. I would suspect Michigan is where he'll end up as it's seemed that way for a few weeks now
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Agree, if your not going after the best recruits you might as well give it up. No true sports enthusiast settles for anything but trying to recruit he best players EXCEPT the participation trophy folks.
 
WindsorHawk said:
Fran already turned things around. There is far more evidence that last year was a fluke than the norm if being totally objective and making comments based on Iowa's record and the season by season progression...prior to last year.
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Seriously? 11-20, 18-17, 19-15 and 14-19. That's half of Fran's tenure here. What do you consider "turning things around"? That's practically identical to Alfraud's record. Turned it around to what? Mediocre?
 
BigD said:
Agree, if your not going after the best recruits you might as well give it up. No true sports enthusiast settles for anything but trying to recruit he best players EXCEPT the participation trophy folks.
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Going after them and never getting them paints a portrait of failure. If you swim in the waters with blue chippers you need to land 1 or 2 or else you really are just wasting your time. Nothing says we have to spend all of our recruiting efforts on top 50 kids. You could target the lower fringe top 100 kids and build a program that wins consistently.

I myself don't fault Fran for going in on elite recruits, but I do fault him for going after so many and landing none leaving us with sub 150 fallback recruits.
 
Adam said:
Going after them and never getting them paints a portrait of failure. If you swim in the waters with blue chippers you need to land 1 or 2 or else you really are just wasting your time. Nothing says we have to spend all of our recruiting efforts on top 50 kids. You could target the lower fringe top 100 kids and build a program that wins consistently.

I myself don't fault Fran for going in on elite recruits, but I do fault him for going after so many and landing none leaving us with sub 150 fallback recruits.
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That’s a fair and reasonable analysis.
 
Knight78 said:
I know it's limited and all, but I saw DJC play two games against Muscatine. In both games Wieskamp drove around him like he had lead in his shoes and easily shot threes over him - he never guarded Wieskamp inside. The Muscatine guards couldn't stop him from driving (in all honesty, Muscatine's guards couldn't stop anyone in the conference from driving) but DJC had many open shots at the elbow and clanged them. He did get his points but most were on drives to the basket (away from Wieskamp's side) - in the games I watched he didn't shoot 50%. He had good handles but wasn't crisp in his passing. Defensively he dominated Muscatine's guards (but most every other team in the conference did as well). So color me as "not impressed" with what I saw in person. His highlight reels look good, but aren't all highlight reels supposed to make the player look good? Brady Ellingson looked like a world beater in his highlight reels.
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If Wieskamp would have waited longer to commit, he would be a 5 star recruit and most fans would be a lot more excited about him.
 
HawkGold said:
Agree about Mike and Jordan. Like them both. Neither are outstanding pt guards, but had strengths.

I do believe Fran has what he wants. Live or die, it's what he wants.

On a bit dif note, I did get to see Iowa recruiting up close. It struck me that the recruitment focused on weaknesses of what needed improved rather than being excited about what the player would bring to the table. There seemed be a disconnect emotionally. Maybe it was just one player they weren't that interested in. But then again, they were coming and talking. I would see other Big coaches at the same game and the style was notably different to the point of seeming indifferent. Maybe a bit insecure. Bruce Weber had the same sort of feel, but with more warmth. Painter, Motta, IU coaches...much more warmth...glad to see you type of stuff. Those guys seemed to want people to know they were there. Iowa and Weber...no, they tried to blend. Different styles. DJ would seem to want more attention and hype to me that Iowa would give based on my limited observations.
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I wouldn't mind having Mike Jordan on this team.:D Sad thing is the real Michael could probably school half our players right now at age 55.
 
HawkGold said:
That is one of the most profound statements I've seen on here in a while. Could me a multitude of things.
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Gene Keady had never recruited overly flashy players. But when Glen Robinson was interested in his program Gene didn't hesitate to tweak a couple thing to accommodate the Big Dog. He increased tempo, and gave Glen the freedom to create. And create in the open court.

Keady was no dummy. He knew most players in the league didn't have a prayer against Robinson.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
In a lot of ways Fran can't win. I mean he HAD to go all out trying to get Carton. No if ands or butts. But some on here made it sound like he shouldn't have because it was 'obvious' he was never coming to Iowa. Well till last night that didn't seem to be the case and Fran had to keep trying. You can't land him if you aren't trying. So I for one am not going to kill Fran over that. I'm surprised OSU is on his list still. Indiana sorta makes sense and so does Michigan. I would suspect Michigan is where he'll end up as it's seemed that way for a few weeks now
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John Beilein has accomplished more in this decade than any other coach in the Big Ten, including his buddy Izzo and Bo Ryan.

If it's Michigan DJ is in good hands.
 
If DJ leads Indiana to a national title...will Fran get a raise, or contract extension, or how does that work?
 
CP87 said:
I haven't read through all of this thread so maybe it was brought up earlier, but isn't it true that Carton did not move to Iowa until high school, and he did not grow up a Hawk fan (though his grandfather was an alum)? If so, then him being "in-state" really means very little, so this is no different from McCafferey missing out on a 5-star recruit from Minneapolis, Chicago, or St. Louis. It stings to not finish first in these very difficult races, but it is not an indication of some fatal flaw in McCafferey's coaching.

As several others have pointed out, the stink-fest that the '14 and '15 classes turned into is much more worrisome to me than McCafferey swinging for the fences on a regional 5-star and coming up short.
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He moved to Bettendorf for ninth grade.
 
If Iowa is painful to watch, for the casual fan, why would a top PG want to go to Iowa? Why would we be surprised if the top PGs look elsewhere, even those who live in Iowa?
 
tksirius said:
If Wieskamp wasn't a huge Hawk fan since birth, he wouldn't be at Iowa.
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That's how most of the big time programs get their players. That's why Iowa is at such a huge disadvantage. Very few difference makers are hawk fans since birth.
 
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