tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Sounds like a Dire situation.
This famous lyric came to mind.
Hey maestro expresso
It's just another one just like the other one
Hey maestro expresso
Is this another one just like the other one
(name that tune)
Vegas Says....
- Thread starter tksirius
- Start date
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
The expectations are so high lmfao.
Where did I say Iowa was gonna be great? I simply said 6 wins is totally out of the norm.
BigD
Well-Known Member
This argument is a waste of time. Each person has their own expectations from what level of success they want to see from the football program. If after eighteen years anyone is surprised by the job performance of Iowa’s head coach then there is something wrong with you.
I can see the view point of both sides. We’ve seen some of the best (historically) football programs (Notre Dame, Nebraska, Michigan) go though many coaching changes. Many times they have hired some of the hottest coaching prospects only to get similar results.
It all comes down to what each fan base is willing to accept. For most historically elite programs a five loss season will never cut it and coaches heads will roll. Iowa is not an elite program and likely never will be because it’s not demanded by the general Iowa fan base.
Facing that truth will temper expectations. Having said that doesn’t excuse what appears by our coaching staff is the acceptance of five loss seasons. Each coaching staff should be striving (legitimately) to make improved strides each season to i prove over all performance. Changes in offensive and defensive schemes (tweaking) in an attempt to strive for better results. The same could be said about recruiting more areas across the country in an attempt to improve over all recruiting.
This is where I get frustrated as it seems like ground hog day at Iowa. It just has a stagnant feel to it. Kirk has publicly stated that it is his goal that the Iowa program compete for a big ten title every season. Those are nice thoughts but like everything else if steps and actions aren’t taken to improve in the areas I mentioned above then those words become meaningless, shallow, and empty.
With that attitude maybe Kirk would be more suited to run for politics instead of running the Iowa football program.
I can see the view point of both sides. We’ve seen some of the best (historically) football programs (Notre Dame, Nebraska, Michigan) go though many coaching changes. Many times they have hired some of the hottest coaching prospects only to get similar results.
It all comes down to what each fan base is willing to accept. For most historically elite programs a five loss season will never cut it and coaches heads will roll. Iowa is not an elite program and likely never will be because it’s not demanded by the general Iowa fan base.
Facing that truth will temper expectations. Having said that doesn’t excuse what appears by our coaching staff is the acceptance of five loss seasons. Each coaching staff should be striving (legitimately) to make improved strides each season to i prove over all performance. Changes in offensive and defensive schemes (tweaking) in an attempt to strive for better results. The same could be said about recruiting more areas across the country in an attempt to improve over all recruiting.
This is where I get frustrated as it seems like ground hog day at Iowa. It just has a stagnant feel to it. Kirk has publicly stated that it is his goal that the Iowa program compete for a big ten title every season. Those are nice thoughts but like everything else if steps and actions aren’t taken to improve in the areas I mentioned above then those words become meaningless, shallow, and empty.
With that attitude maybe Kirk would be more suited to run for politics instead of running the Iowa football program.
hawkeyes87
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Hell, any manager should be making (at least) yearly reviews of his group. How are we doing- how do we compare to our competition? What are our strengths? Weaknesses? How can we do better?
We know most years lately the answer to "How is Hawkeye football doing?" is "pretty mediocre". What has KF done to make them better? We know the offense is always a weak link, but it's the same every year.
Every time I hear one of his "we're just Iowa" statements, I think "you're the damn coach- take ownership of it! Mix things up! Play something that resembles a modern offense!"
MiniMoeHawk
Well-Known Member
Iowa is 7 point favorites over the clowns...unfortunately Iowa usually doesn’t cover this game. But I’ll take the hawks by a field goal.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I don't get it.....
Look, I hate the fact that Wisconsin has passed us up as much as anyone. But this continued talk of "average" or "mediocre" when describing KFs accomplishments here are intellectually dishonest.
During KF's tenure, we have the 24th best winning % in P5. And you can take any 5 year period of his tenure and that's about where he'd be at.
It's better than Notre Dame, K-State, Michigan State, Georgia Tech, Stanford, Texas A&M, Arkansas, etc, etc. And maybe other than K-State, his recruiting class rankings are below all of those teams.
We all want better, but to act as if it's some sort of birthright to get 9 wins every year is assinine. The number of teams in the last 5 years that have won 9 games each year is exactly 4.....Alabama, OSU, Wisconsin, and Clemson. That's it. For 8 wins each year, add only 6 more teams....Georgia, Oklahoma, Stanford, Louisville, USC, and LSU. So 10 total teams have won 8 or more games each of the last 5 years. We were one win away in 2013 from being part of that select group.
So be pissed that Wisky keeps winning...I know I am. But can we not also be intellectually honest when discussing KF's tenure?
Look, I hate the fact that Wisconsin has passed us up as much as anyone. But this continued talk of "average" or "mediocre" when describing KFs accomplishments here are intellectually dishonest.
During KF's tenure, we have the 24th best winning % in P5. And you can take any 5 year period of his tenure and that's about where he'd be at.
It's better than Notre Dame, K-State, Michigan State, Georgia Tech, Stanford, Texas A&M, Arkansas, etc, etc. And maybe other than K-State, his recruiting class rankings are below all of those teams.
We all want better, but to act as if it's some sort of birthright to get 9 wins every year is assinine. The number of teams in the last 5 years that have won 9 games each year is exactly 4.....Alabama, OSU, Wisconsin, and Clemson. That's it. For 8 wins each year, add only 6 more teams....Georgia, Oklahoma, Stanford, Louisville, USC, and LSU. So 10 total teams have won 8 or more games each of the last 5 years. We were one win away in 2013 from being part of that select group.
So be pissed that Wisky keeps winning...I know I am. But can we not also be intellectually honest when discussing KF's tenure?
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Assuming your stats are correct.... that puts KF right in the middle of the pack for winning percentage, which is exactly where he has been in the Big Ten. Middle of the pack = Average.
hawkeyes87
Well-Known Member
There are so many ridiculous parts to your argument, I hardly know where to start.
Since "average" & "mediocre" are subjective terms, "intellectually dishonest" doesn't really apply- we'll each have our own criteria.
But, having said that,
this is pretty close. You pull a fairly meaningless stat, on which high-floor / low-ceiling KF will rate well, and act like it's a critical "measure of success".
Personally, I don't care how many wins the Hawks get. To me, it's all about national relevancy- are you in the Top-25, Top-10.
Here's how the Hawks compare to those 4 teams in wins, Top-10's, Top-25's over those last 5 years.
Team..W's..top10..top25
BAMA...64....5.../
OSU....61....5.../
WISC...54....2...3
CLEM...61....4...1
IOWA...43....1...0
Clearly those teams are out of the Hawks' league.
Team..W's..top10..top25
BAMA...64....5.../
OSU....61....5.../
WISC...54....2...3
CLEM...61....4...1
IOWA...43....1...0
Clearly those teams are out of the Hawks' league.
Right. So we must be at least close to that 2nd tier, right?
Team..W's..top10..top25
UGA....49....2...1
OKLA...53....4...0
STAN...50....2...2
LOU....46....0...3
USC....48....1...3
LSU....44....0...4
IOWA...43....1...0
So those teams all have more wins, and at least 2 more appearances in the polls.
By my criteria, they're not that close to that group.
Who are they close to? Here they are compared to the other B1G West mediocrities.
Team..W's..top10..top25
IOWA...43....1...0
NEB....37....0...1NW.....37....0...2
MIN....36....0...0
ILL....20....0...0
PUR....16....0...0
I'm sticking w/ mediocre, thanks.
To be great...the coach has to set expectations high...and do what it takes to get it done...the 7-5, 8-4 is a decent year talk is loser talk...and when it comes from the mouth of the head coach...well...that's about what you get...(along with life long tenure/family hires/and nice raises...)
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
The goal every year for Iowa is to win the B1G. I'm not sure WTF you are talking about pretending to act like the Iowa coaches goals are 7 wins.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
7 games and a Pinstripe bowl is nothing to beat your chest over. That's basically showing up.
BigD
Well-Known Member
Dean, is it really a serious goal if serious changes aren’t made across the board to reach those goals? We all know the answer to that question. A 7-5 record is not going to get you there. So what serious changes has KF made that DEMONSTRATES he is serious about winning a conference title? Remember Greg retired and was not fired as the offensive coordinator. It was totally unrealistic to expect to compete for a title as long as he was the OC. Kirk was talking out of his ass when saying he is setting a goal to win the title every year. He is playing the fans.
It really is an insult to human intelligence. We are going to play the same type of offense, the same type of defense, recruit the same level of players and then pretend to get different results. The only way that is going to happen is if the conference turns to shit. Then we will win by default. Alabama and Stanford showed what the Big Ten was really about in 2015. You can live in denial all you want. If the results had been just the opposite and Iowa and MSU had done the throttling then you would be standing on higher ground and could make a legitimate case. That didn’t happen.
As a life long Hawkeye fan of over fifty years I have suffered through some tough things to my “sports ego”. I want nothing more then for Brian to tear it up and make Iowa an offensive juggernaut. I would be all behind him being Iowa’s next head coach when Kirk retires or dies (which ever comes first). If Brian can’t get it done then both him and his dad need to leave. Thanks for a few good seasons and I hope that your family enjoys the one hundred million dollars you have gotten from the Big Ten network. If Brain can bring it all together on a regular basis then I hope your family enjoys the TWO hundred million dollars your family will get from the Big Ten Network. More power to yah bro.
Kirk's default setting is to do a lot of "job security" coaching...for him and his family...does he have the heart of a winner? Willing to make tough decisions of change? Voice the clearly defined goals? Has he made personal steps to improve his game time coaching? Demonstrated a burning passion for recruiting (the key to winning on a high level) Hire coaches with talent (smarter than he is) who have a voice in the winning plan?
I guess I haven't seen much of that...poorly defined goals, safe seasons, excuses when the talented teams pop up on the schedule and most often leave Iowa speechless and with no answers...other than the post game rationalizations and blame.
Hiring his inexperienced son to "fix" a yearly chronic weakness (offense/creativity) is case in point...can't be much clearer than that, can it?
Another default setting is to limit the "ideas of others"...clamping down on "new think" and smothering it with Kirk Vanilla.
As a fan and coach...being content with that 7-5 season...8-4 season beating up on cupcakes might be perfectly fine for many...I am most often left unimpressed...I prefer the heart of a winner...who is all in...
I guess I haven't seen much of that...poorly defined goals, safe seasons, excuses when the talented teams pop up on the schedule and most often leave Iowa speechless and with no answers...other than the post game rationalizations and blame.
Hiring his inexperienced son to "fix" a yearly chronic weakness (offense/creativity) is case in point...can't be much clearer than that, can it?
Another default setting is to limit the "ideas of others"...clamping down on "new think" and smothering it with Kirk Vanilla.
As a fan and coach...being content with that 7-5 season...8-4 season beating up on cupcakes might be perfectly fine for many...I am most often left unimpressed...I prefer the heart of a winner...who is all in...
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
I'm an optimist with a bit of a different take on what I get out of Iowa Football. I actually look at if the team is competitive and how close they are to a 2015 type season. It's really all I care about leading into the season. Ok, so we were 8-5 last year. If you look closer, of the 5 losses, 4 of the games could have gone either way without turnovers or maybe someone making a play on defense. So...in my opinion, 8-5 left you optimistic heading into this year.
At the end of the day, this is entertainment. Are you entertained and does the team represent the University in the fashion you respect? I look forward to every game and I know they can win every game if they execute. Positive.
Vegas wants money period...they set the line to get everyone excited about winning based on their negative or positive impression of the team. I'm betting the over.
- That was the youngest offensive football team we have ever put on the football field. Positive.
- We return a QB with a legitimate chance to be an NFL QB. Positive.
- Phil Parker coaches the defense and we have recruited well there recently. We also have potential impact stars on the defensive line. Positive.
- The schedule sets up much differently this year...and it's much easier. Positive.
At the end of the day, this is entertainment. Are you entertained and does the team represent the University in the fashion you respect? I look forward to every game and I know they can win every game if they execute. Positive.
Vegas wants money period...they set the line to get everyone excited about winning based on their negative or positive impression of the team. I'm betting the over.
The Iowa is entertainment angle is fine...but doesn't seem to fit with paying a head coach 4 million (or whatever a year)...to produce 7-5...
Iowa football is big business for all involved...$$$ is coming in...flush salaries throughout...which is fine...just tough to sell as another form of "entertainment"
two cents...
Iowa football is big business for all involved...$$$ is coming in...flush salaries throughout...which is fine...just tough to sell as another form of "entertainment"
two cents...
1hawkeye1
Well-Known Member
You do realize that this is a fan forum on the interwebs, right. Reason and logic have no place here.
BigD
Well-Known Member
Of course I hope you are right and we have a great year. It sure makes the winters seem shorter. With last season in football and basketball it felt like a nuclear winter
Just a few things you overlooked
*We lost our NFL bound defensive back
*We lost the Big Ten’s leading linebacking crew
*We lost our entire starting backfield. Wadley was worth at least two or three wins in and of himself.
You are correct about a favorable schedule.
Also the linebacking position is one of the easiest position to teach, HOWEVER you can’t teach speed. Hopefully the new guys can run like the wind.
Would love to see the Hawks go on a tear like they did in 2015. It certainly wasn’t expected and that is when Kirk is the most dangerous when little is expected of the team. This would be one of those years.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
Of course I hope you are right and we have a great year. It sure makes the winters seem shorter. With last season in football and basketball it felt like a nuclear winter
Just a few things you overlooked
*We lost our NFL bound defensive back
*We lost the Big Ten’s leading linebacking crew
*We lost our entire starting backfield. Wadley was worth at least two or three wins in and of himself.
You are correct about a favorable schedule.
Also the linebacking position is one of the easiest position to teach, HOWEVER you can’t teach speed. Hopefully the new guys can run like the wind.
Would love to see the Hawks go on a tear like they did in 2015. It certainly wasn’t expected and that is when Kirk is the most dangerous when little is expected of the team. This would be one of those years.
I get the losses on defense...but no one thought Jackson was an all-American CB heading into last year. The cupboard is not bare (Rugumba, Hankins, Ojemudia to name a few). You also have a few highly rated recruits. There are three or four safeties also...the back four are a not a concern in my opinion...neither are the front starting four in the d-line. Is the depth good enough on the DL? We have guys like Reiff and others that have to make a step forward...but I'm thinking the DL is going to be very good. LB is the issue and rightly so...but we have athletes there...several of them. I trust Phil Parker to have them ready to play.
Wadley was special...but guys graduate and you have to replace them. We aren't replacing him with Sam Brownlee...no offense Sam. IKM and Toren Young proved last year they belong...they just need reps. I think this could be a much different running team...they are going to wear teams out. Our offensive line is going to be bigger than I can honestly ever remember. If you start Jackson, Reynolds, Render, Paulson, and Wirfs...thats 325, 308, 310, 310, and 320 up front. You put a back like Toren Young behind that size...with a fullback at 245 or so...you better have some beef upfront because a power running game is coming. I also think Ivory Kelly Martin is special. He is my pick to surprise some people. Good size, great burst, and he can make people miss.
