Trump supporters, how do you square this?

HawkIowa44 said:
Maybe start blaming Russia for invading Ukraine instead of getting pissed at the guy trying to defend his country. Did he asked to be invaded?

The Putin love affair is almost as bad as the orange turd love affair
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This. The Orwellian lies that Trump is putting forth are just crazy.

Trump indicated that Ukraine brought this war on itself. WTAF? Trump stated Zalensky is a dictator.


FACTS:

Putin is a dictator.
Russia invaded a another country, killed women and children, and took their land.

Trump is aligning with a bad actor (Russia), and thumbing his nose at our REAL allies in Europe.

If you support this, I have questions about your values and morals. Since when have Americans supported Russian aggression? Since when have Americans wanted their own leaders to be above all alwas? FFS the guy has hats and flags and a whole cult following. I guess we grew tired of democracy?

I personally feel that this will not go well for America, eventually. Maybe not right away, but if Western European allies don't trust us, they won't give us important intelligence info. This idea that America can go it alone might work in the short run, but making everyone hate us is a bad plan in the long run.

I believe Trump also said that there is a big ocean between Europe and the US, as if that somehow insulates us. It's not 1900, Mr. Neville Trump Chamberlin.

My faith would be restored if Trump tightened the screws on Russia, but I won't hold my breath. What do they have on him? Why does Trump always compliment Putin? Something is really wrong here.
 
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ajdwhs87 said:
Biden was so weak with giving China everything they wanted. Russia was able to go to war and had no sanctions enforced to try even to deter them and a nice influx of oil money thanks to Biden. Iran got billions freed up to use for nice stuff like funding their terrorist proxies. You should wise up on who was the friend and/or benefactor of dictators and terrorists. Real world stuff not I hate this guy over that guy. Russia behaved under Trump and got richer off oil and waged war under Biden. Oct. 7th happened under Biden and a historic rise in antisemitism.

Perhaps even they didn't want to negotiate with him. Calling him a dictator and war criminal. Great foreign diplomacy there. These crazy dictators. You can't do that. Insult them is what we should do not the president. Then the media goes on the fake Trump is in the pocket of Russia and bends over for Putin thing. Again real life where you need to coddle people like Rocketman, Xi, and Putin cause of how they are. Keeps your friends close and your enemies close too is real life not insult them in your media so you look good at home. Of course China is way worse than Russia and Biden is such great friends with Xi is totally ignored and not the same thing with Russia and Trump. Big hypocrisy there.
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Except what China wants most: Taiwan.
 
PCHawk said:
There is a commonly used method when downsizing a business where you error on the side of cutting too much and then adding back when needed. Seems to me like a pretty darn good way to cure money problems.

I can see how it seems off the cuff when you're an outsider looking in. We have no idea how much is going on behind the scenes. When you start looking through the lense of "if Trump is doing it it has to be bad" you will never be happy about anything. I'm not saying you're looking through that lense. You seem reasonable to be. But some other guys in this thread.....
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I totally get that on the business side of things you'd err on cutting too much and then adding back, but when dealing with human lives you cut too much people could die. It's not a Trump or Republican vs. Democrats thing at this point. Regardless of what side I'm on, the change cannot continue to be so abrupt and needs to be analyzed and thoroughly looked into. Based on how rapidly they're operating there is no way that they're asking all the questions that need to be answered or finding answers to the questions they should be answering. All it takes is one call, to the suicide hotline, to go unanswered because of budget cuts for it to become lethal.

And as I've said time and time again, I despise Trump, but the fact is if he fails we all do, and I don't think he nor Musk have the decency or integrity to fix something that may could be detrimental, unless it gets to the point that it costs lives and they cannot sweep it under the rug. I have no faith what so ever in our government (either side) but what I have even less faith in is the belief that the elitists of the world give two shits about the rest of us and are acting in our best interest. Money and power corrupt. And as a "have not" I can't fathom why the "have's" would look out for those that they have nothing in common with if, first and foremost, it doesn't benefit them.
 
ajdwhs87 said:
And what if he gets it stopped. Say whatever but stop the people dying. Biden admin lollygagged and this was their new forever war after leaving Afghanistan. No peace table, only helping Ukraine only so much while at the same time not enforcing stuff against Russia that would hurt them. Both are really dictators actually and corruption on both sides and of course the last administration not keeping track of where a bunch of our money was ending up.

If the fighting stops under Trump there is nothing else to say. Same with the hostages like Biden got out Brittney Griner out of Russia but left the dude there that the trump administration had to get him out for .6 oz of medicinal.

Trump loves to troll and you all give him the reactions he wants. He wouldn't say dictator on day 1 or even do the Gulf of America thing but he is giving back all the 95% or whatever negative coverage and names calling and Hitler this and that. Even trolling Zalensky after he gets all bent out of shape when Trump is doing exactly what you do. Take them separate and Russia goes first. No way it works nor would anyone who knows do it another way. You think they could all sit at a table right away. That would be a shit show.

Guess what Russia gonna get something. No way a deal gets done where Russia gets nothing. It is how the world works. Even Isreal releases more hostages than Hamas has to and some bad terrorist dudes. Not they won't stop wanting all Jews dead and they did October 7th so they get the short end isn't how it works in the real world. They don't just give up and take their punishment for being bad.
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And this is the type of thin skin you'd want in a position of power. You're absolutely right that that is why he's doing it and he's doing it solely because he can. Sorry but to me that's no leader that's a child having a temper tantrum. Unfortunately the other "leaders" we've elected are too comfortable and scared to try to keep him in check.
 
kicker22 said:
I totally get that on the business side of things you'd err on cutting too much and then adding back, but when dealing with human lives you cut too much people could die. It's not a Trump or Republican vs. Democrats thing at this point. Regardless of what side I'm on, the change cannot continue to be so abrupt and needs to be analyzed and thoroughly looked into. Based on how rapidly they're operating there is no way that they're asking all the questions that need to be answered or finding answers to the questions they should be answering. All it takes is one call, to the suicide hotline, to go unanswered because of budget cuts for it to become lethal.

And as I've said time and time again, I despise Trump, but the fact is if he fails we all do, and I don't think he nor Musk have the decency or integrity to fix something that may could be detrimental, unless it gets to the point that it costs lives and they cannot sweep it under the rug. I have no faith what so ever in our government (either side) but what I have even less faith in is the belief that the elitists of the world give two shits about the rest of us and are acting in our best interest. Money and power corrupt. And as a "have not" I can't fathom why the "have's" would look out for those that they have nothing in common with if, first and foremost, it doesn't benefit them.
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But like it or not, the money end of our government needs to be run like a business. You say if we cut too much people can die. That's true. But it's also true if we don't cut enough, people could die. Imagine a world where China and/or Russia can do whatever they want, wherever they want because the USA went bankrupt.

If a married couple spend wrecklessly for a decade, eventually they have to make cuts they don't want to make or feel like they can't live without. That's where we are. If a couple could afford to give 20k per year to charity, but instead give 200k per year, eventually they have to stop and can't even give the 20k anymore. At least until they get back on their feet. We need to get back on our feet as a country. Part of me can't believe some people aren't smart enough to see that. But then I think about people I know in my life that are completely irresponsible with money. Some people just can't grasp financing for whatever reason.
 
PCHawk said:
But like it or not, the money end of our government needs to be run like a business. You say if we cut too much people can die. That's true. But it's also true if we don't cut enough, people could die. Imagine a world where China and/or Russia can do whatever they want, wherever they want because the USA went bankrupt.

If a married couple spend wrecklessly for a decade, eventually they have to make cuts they don't want to make or feel like they can't live without. That's where we are. If a couple could afford to give 20k per year to charity, but instead give 200k per year, eventually they have to stop and can't even give the 20k anymore. At least until they get back on their feet. We need to get back on our feet as a country. Part of me can't believe some people aren't smart enough to see that. But then I think about people I know in my life that are completely irresponsible with money. Some people just can't grasp financing for whatever reason.
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So we want the guy who has bankrupted SIX businesses to be in charge of our money? Interesting strategy
 
PCHawk said:
But like it or not, the money end of our government needs to be run like a business. You say if we cut too much people can die. That's true. But it's also true if we don't cut enough, people could die. Imagine a world where China and/or Russia can do whatever they want, wherever they want because the USA went bankrupt.

If a married couple spend wrecklessly for a decade, eventually they have to make cuts they don't want to make or feel like they can't live without. That's where we are. If a couple could afford to give 20k per year to charity, but instead give 200k per year, eventually they have to stop and can't even give the 20k anymore. At least until they get back on their feet. We need to get back on our feet as a country. Part of me can't believe some people aren't smart enough to see that. But then I think about people I know in my life that are completely irresponsible with money. Some people just can't grasp financing for whatever reason.
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There are.many who argue that a country is very much NOT like a business...there is no necessity to make a profit, or to even balance a budget. Nobody argues that printing an infinite amount money forever can work, but having debt, even lots of it, is not the end of the world.

I am not smart enough in Economics to explain why this is the case, but I know many would find your analogy inappropriate.

But beyond all of that, this has never really been about shrinking the debt. If that was the true goal, we would be talking about increasing taxes and better funding the IRS. Instead, they are slashing the IRS and pushing massive tax cut, while also cutting regulatory agencies who have oversight over the businesses of the wealthy, and trying to attack anything that whiffs of progressivism to strong arm his way into getting what he wants. Oh yeah, and trying to hurt those who have offended his sensitive ego at any point.
 
CP87 said:
There are.many who argue that a country is very much NOT like a business...there is no necessity to make a profit, or to even balance a budget. Nobody argues that printing an infinite amount money forever can work, but having debt, even lots of it, is not the end of the world.

I am not smart enough in Economics to explain why this is the case, but I know many would find your analogy inappropriate.

But beyond all of that, this has never really been about shrinking the debt. If that was the true goal, we would be talking about increasing taxes and better funding the IRS. Instead, they are slashing the IRS and pushing massive tax cut, while also cutting regulatory agencies who have oversight over the businesses of the wealthy, and trying to attack anything that whiffs of progressivism to strong arm his way into getting what he wants. Oh yeah, and trying to hurt those who have offended his sensitive ego at any point.
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To some extent I agree. I remember Trump years ago even saying the national debt isn't as big of a deal as its made out to be. But at some point, the debt can get too large to be considered a good thing. When that point is can be debated, but I'm guessing most would agree we've hit that point.

You're right it's not just about eliminating the debt. I'd say it's mostly about getting rid of corrupt and wasted spending. Trump talks about that in has new interview with Musk and Hannity. He basically says a minute of bargaining can cut close to 50% off of things and the government never does it.

Trump's ability to get people to argue in favor of things that are pretty universal considered bad is so impressive. Whether it's killing a terrorist, stopping a war, or lowering government spending, half of the country will make it out to be a bad thing.
 
It's rather simplistic to think a government should run exactly like a for-profit business entity.

In some ways, it should. Government should look for improvements in efficiency, using data to inform decisions, etc.
In other ways, it is definitely not like a for-profit business. For example:

1. The government exists to serve the people. It provides essential services to ensure provide things like healthcare and education. It doesn't necessarily need to do this at a profit, whereas a company has to make a profit, and it's only responsibility is to it's shareholders. It's a different focus.
2. Government should balance the interest of many stakeholders, while a business just answers to owners and shareholders.
3. Government (at least it used to) prioritizes equity over efficiency. Certainly it's a balance, but for profit businesses don't have to think about things like access and equity in the same way that a government does.
4. Government operates in a monopoly atmosphere for things like defense, where a for profit company is in a competitive environment.

If there is a need to improve government performance and efficiency, I don't think one can just go in and slash programs without understanding them. For instance, in the area of health research, firing those researchers is a big deal. You won't find a replacement quickly if you change course. That's a lot different from a social media company, for example. You can have immediate cost savings, which in a corporate environment would impress your shareholders, but in the long run, you may have lost world-leading scientific discoveries, as well as the people who make those discoveries.

I don't personally believe the current administration's goal is to actually reduce the deficit. If so, they'd be doing different things. For example, they wouldn't be decreasing taxes for the top bracket while leaving the others the same. That will REDUCE government income. I would think they would also want to look at bigger things in terms of expenses, like defense.

I also agree with a previous poster who noted that slashing the IRS won't help government income. Try going to an insurance company and slash their billing and collections department. Nope. It's their most efficient operation!
 
Hay Man said:
???? Can you explain that to me as if I was a tRump supporter...really dumb it down
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I said "the money side of the country needs to be run like a business".

You said "so hire the guy who bankrupted six businesses". Clearly insinuating he wouldn't be good at running the country as a business.

Then I said "it should be the guy who became a multi billionaire" insinuating that he ran businesses well enough to get extremely wealthy.

Then you said "yea because billionaires look out for the little guy". We were talking about whether or not Trump can run businesses well enough to trust running the country as a business, then you changed it to billionaires don't look out for the little guy.
 
Westernhawk said:
It's rather simplistic to think a government should run exactly like a for-profit business entity.

In some ways, it should. Government should look for improvements in efficiency, using data to inform decisions, etc.
In other ways, it is definitely not like a for-profit business. For example:

1. The government exists to serve the people. It provides essential services to ensure provide things like healthcare and education. It doesn't necessarily need to do this at a profit, whereas a company has to make a profit, and it's only responsibility is to it's shareholders. It's a different focus.
2. Government should balance the interest of many stakeholders, while a business just answers to owners and shareholders.
3. Government (at least it used to) prioritizes equity over efficiency. Certainly it's a balance, but for profit businesses don't have to think about things like access and equity in the same way that a government does.
4. Government operates in a monopoly atmosphere for things like defense, where a for profit company is in a competitive environment.

If there is a need to improve government performance and efficiency, I don't think one can just go in and slash programs without understanding them. For instance, in the area of health research, firing those researchers is a big deal. You won't find a replacement quickly if you change course. That's a lot different from a social media company, for example. You can have immediate cost savings, which in a corporate environment would impress your shareholders, but in the long run, you may have lost world-leading scientific discoveries, as well as the people who make those discoveries.

I don't personally believe the current administration's goal is to actually reduce the deficit. If so, they'd be doing different things. For example, they wouldn't be decreasing taxes for the top bracket while leaving the others the same. That will REDUCE government income. I would think they would also want to look at bigger things in terms of expenses, like defense.

I also agree with a previous poster who noted that slashing the IRS won't help government income. Try going to an insurance company and slash their billing and collections department. Nope. It's their most efficient operation!
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I agree with most of this. I'm not sure if you are insinuating I said our government needs to run like a for profit business, or just adding to the conversation. To be clear, I didn't say that. I agree with you mostly here.

Also, I keep seeing Trump already decided to cut taxes for the ultra rich and no one else. Is that really a thing or are people just assuming? I even googled it the other day to try to see his new tax plan but didn't find anything on it.
 
PCHawk said:
I said "the money side of the country needs to be run like a business".

You said "so hire the guy who bankrupted six businesses". Clearly insinuating he wouldn't be good at running the country as a business.

Then I said "it should be the guy who became a multi billionaire" insinuating that he ran businesses well enough to get extremely wealthy.

Then you said "yea because billionaires look out for the little guy". We were talking about whether or not Trump can run businesses well enough to trust running the country as a business, then you changed it to billionaires don't look out for the little guy.
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Do billionaires really care about the little guy when they continue to collect more and more money?

Besides, six bankruptcies by someone worth that much is pretty insane. How does that make him a good businessman if he had that many? Are there a lot of billionaires that have had bankruptcies???
 
Westernhawk said:
This. The Orwellian lies that Trump is putting forth are just crazy.

Trump indicated that Ukraine brought this war on itself. WTAF? Trump stated Zalensky is a dictator.


FACTS:

Putin is a dictator.
Russia invaded a another country, killed women and children, and took their land.

Trump is aligning with a bad actor (Russia), and thumbing his nose at our REAL allies in Europe.

If you support this, I have questions about your values and morals. Since when have Americans supported Russian aggression? Since when have Americans wanted their own leaders to be above all alwas? FFS the guy has hats and flags and a whole cult following. I guess we grew tired of democracy?

I personally feel that this will not go well for America, eventually. Maybe not right away, but if Western European allies don't trust us, they won't give us important intelligence info. This idea that America can go it alone might work in the short run, but making everyone hate us is a bad plan in the long run.

I believe Trump also said that there is a big ocean between Europe and the US, as if that somehow insulates us. It's not 1900, Mr. Neville Trump Chamberlin.

My faith would be restored if Trump tightened the screws on Russia, but I won't hold my breath. What do they have on him? Why does Trump always compliment Putin? Something is really wrong here.
Click to expand...

www.bbc.com

How liars create the ‘illusion of truth’

Repetition makes a fact seem more true, regardless of whether it is or not. Understanding the "illusion of truth" effect can help you avoid falling victim to this trick.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
PCHawk said:
I agree with most of this. I'm not sure if you are insinuating I said our government needs to run like a for profit business, or just adding to the conversation. To be clear, I didn't say that. I agree with you mostly here.

Also, I keep seeing Trump already decided to cut taxes for the ultra rich and no one else. Is that really a thing or are people just assuming? I even googled it the other day to try to see his new tax plan but didn't find anything on it.
Click to expand...
 
"Believing that a small group of billionaires are suddenly working tirelessly for the benefit of the working class really does require a spectacular level of stupid..." Brevard Corruption Watch
 
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