This sucks

[lightning1]

So PCHawk questioning whether he doesn't know how to coach defense or doesn't choose to spend time on it is the reason he has to be fired NOW? I didn't know my opinion was so important.

If you know the answer, which one is it? Does he not no how to coach it, or does he choose not to?

He chooses not to. He's got a "Championship Defense" DVD....didn't ya know?

 

[theboat]

He chooses not to. He's got a "Championship Defense" DVD....didn't ya know?

Fran and Matt Campbell. Championship coaches without the championships

 

[Knight78]

If the deciding factor on whether a coach should be fired or not is if fans on a message board question if he can do his job, there would be a lot of job openings as of right NOW!!!!!!!!!

I'll bet a lot of Kansas fans are angry with Bill Self this year....

 

[Knight78]

Losing in the first round of the BIG tournament and being a 7 seed is above average. It is also the exception to the Fran rule. I don’t get how some people are dumb enough to think Fran will become something at 60 years old that he has never been. After 8 years at Iowa, he is what he is. We may get a 3 year build to an above average result. That isn’t enough. I would have more respect for you if you admitted that that is all you expect out of Iowa basketball. But when you think they are gonna magically be good consistently with zero evidence to support that, it is just silly.

You do realize that John Wooden didn't really do well in the NCAA until he was 51 (finished 4th). UCLA did OK by finishing second or third in the regional (equivalent of making the Sweet 16) and having winning seasons but they only appeared in the NCAA tournament 3 times in his previous 12 years. Two years later he began his historic sweep.

No, I'm not comparing Fran to Wooden. Just pointing out that he could get better as it's happened before.

 

[theboat]

You do realize that John Wooden didn't really do well in the NCAA until he was 51 (finished 4th). UCLA did OK by finishing second or third in the regional (equivalent of making the Sweet 16) and having winning seasons but they only appeared in the NCAA tournament 3 times in his previous 12 years. Two years later he began his historic sweep.

No, I'm not comparing Fran to Wooden. Just pointing out that he could get better as it's happened before.

Name one coach that has done that in an era close to now. Wooden wouldn’t be able to do that now, why would Fran ?

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Fran and Matt Campbell. Championship coaches without the championships

Fran actually has won championships in three different conferences. So, that's probably why he put out a DVD of "Championship Defense." Now, if you're talking about B1G championships, nope, Fran ain't got one.

 

[Knight78]

Name one coach that has done that in an era close to now. Wooden wouldn’t be able to do that now, why would Fran ?

Here's two:

Jim Larranaga didn't make the NCAA tournament until after he had coached for 15 years and was 50. He didn't make it past the first round of the NCAA until he was 57.

Greg Kampe has only made the NCAA tournament once, in 2005 his team lost in the first round. He's been coaching for 32 years at Oakland University.

 

[theboat]

Here's two:

Jim Larranaga didn't make the NCAA tournament until after he had coached for 15 years and was 50. He didn't make it past the first round of the NCAA until he was 57.

Greg Kampe has only made the NCAA tournament once, in 2005 his team lost in the first round. He's been coaching for 32 years at Oakland University.

Your examples suck. Larranega worked his way from Bowling Green, took George Mason to the final four, and now has Miami as a threat every year. The other guy I had to google because who the hell cares who coaches at Oakland. Is that really what you strive for Iowa to be?

 

[Knight78]

Your examples suck. Larranega worked his way from Bowling Green, took George Mason to the final four, and now has Miami as a threat every year. The other guy I had to google because who the hell cares who coaches at Oakland. Is that really what you strive for Iowa to be?

Your exact line posted was "Name one coach that has done that in an era close to now. Wooden wouldn’t be able to do that now, why would Fran ?"

You didn't say anything about where they coached (although I gave you two D1 coaches and there are a number of D2 and D3 coaches with the same scenario). You also didn't ask about what we should strive for at Iowa. You only asked me to name one coach and I named 2.

 

[theboat]

Your exact line posted was "Name one coach that has done that in an era close to now. Wooden wouldn’t be able to do that now, why would Fran ?"

You didn't say anything about where they coached (although I gave you two D1 coaches and there are a number of D2 and D3 coaches with the same scenario). You also didn't ask about what we should strive for at Iowa. You only asked me to name one coach and I named 2.

Congrats. You named 2 coaches that have zero similarities to Fran.
My point is that Fran is who he is. I couldn’t care less what he did at Sienna. That matters as much as what Lick did at Butler or Alford did wherever. He has been at Iowa 8 years. He has NEVER been anything but above average. Anyone that expects that to change in years 9-16 are lying to themselves.
I have looked to see if I could find any coach that is at a power 5 school as long as Fran where they exceed their previous ceiling after year 8. I couldn’t find one. Wooden is actually an example I didn’t know, so now Fran just needs a bag man.

 

[PCHawk]

Congrats. You named 2 coaches that have zero similarities to Fran.
My point is that Fran is who he is. I couldn’t care less what he did at Sienna. That matters as much as what Lick did at Butler or Alford did wherever. He has been at Iowa 8 years. He has NEVER been anything but above average. Anyone that expects that to change in years 9-16 are lying to themselves.
I have looked to see if I could find any coach that is at a power 5 school as long as Fran where they exceed their previous ceiling after year 8. I couldn’t find one. Wooden is actually an example I didn’t know, so now Fran just needs a bag man.

So you don't think coaches ever put together their best group of players after year 8? Basketball is a sport where all it takes is one really good player to make a good team. Is it that hard for you to fathom that Fran either lands an average recruit who turns out like Tre Burke, or an instate kid who turns out like Harrison Barnes? (He may have already done that). This whole "year 8" thing people grasp onto is a joke. So is the "Fran hit his ceiling" agruement. Especially since he is one player from having a really good team. And it just so happens that a top 50 recruit plays that position of need. In 2 years, Bohannon, Wieskamp, Cook, and Garza will surpass this "ceiling" you are so sure Fran has reached. And no matter how good they finish, it won't mean Fran is out of nowhere a great coach. All it will mean is a good coached pieced together a great team, which happens all the time in basketball. Even after year fucking 8.

 

[PCHawk]

Congrats. You named 2 coaches that have zero similarities to Fran.
My point is that Fran is who he is. I couldn’t care less what he did at Sienna. That matters as much as what Lick did at Butler or Alford did wherever. He has been at Iowa 8 years. He has NEVER been anything but above average. Anyone that expects that to change in years 9-16 are lying to themselves.
I have looked to see if I could find any coach that is at a power 5 school as long as Fran where they exceed their previous ceiling after year 8. I couldn’t find one. Wooden is actually an example I didn’t know, so now Fran just needs a bag man.

I thought your point was that no one has their best season after the magic number 8th year?

 

[PCHawk]

Losing in the first round of the BIG tournament and being a 7 seed is above average. It is also the exception to the Fran rule. I don’t get how some people are dumb enough to think Fran will become something at 60 years old that he has never been. After 8 years at Iowa, he is what he is. We may get a 3 year build to an above average result. That isn’t enough. I would have more respect for you if you admitted that that is all you expect out of Iowa basketball. But when you think they are gonna magically be good consistently with zero evidence to support that, it is just silly.

And I don't get how Fran has gotten us within 2 plays of winning a Big 10 title. (A Nigel Hayes missed 3 pointer and a Yogi Ferrel missed 3 pointer) yet you somehow think that is the highest he can possibly get us. Like he couldn't get us in the exact same situation again and the opponent actually misses the shot at the end. He doesn't even have to do anything better. Just get a little lucky in 2 games and he wins a conference title. Yet it's impossible because it wasn't in the cards that time.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I'm not going to enter a dog into this fight. Both sides of the argument bring up good points. The gist of it seems to be how there is such a fine line between elite and mediorce in college sports and how winning and losing can come down to a simple mindset. That's what makes or made Izzo, Keady, and Ryan so tough year in year out. They seem to win two or three close ones every year that they easily could have lost if one play turns out different. And in the Big Ten, that's easily the difference between a solid NCAA seed vs a second round beatdown or the NIT. Even getting a critical call to go your way can add up and accrue compound interest over time.

Late 2014. The SAFO game. Oglesby hits jumper 55 seconds left. Hawks up one. Bucky comes down for what should have been their last possession. Everyone in Johnson County knew it was going to Kaminsky. Wiscy cooly took their time, knew there would be no weakside help in the post becuse they had the floor spread properly, waited until Frank sealed
Gabe, and he converted with about 27 seconds left. Fran calls TO and Bo may as well have been his huddle. When Marble made his move to the hoop, three Badgers were waiting for him and he got stripped. Ball game. Iowa had open guys on the perimeter. Wisconsin didn't respect them. Another preposterous loss.

Want scientific data (for those who use that to base their arguments). Go to KenPom and look at the category of "luck". Iowa has finished in the bottom 10%, out of 351 division one teams, four of the eight years Fran has been here. From a basis of pure chance, the odds of that occurring have to be next to impossible. Yet you can look it up. Yogi and Nigel not withstanding, there's something other than bad luck going on here. And why so many fans are beyond frustrated.

Simple mindset. Ever think of how things might have turned out if Devon Mitchell doesn't tackle McNabb of Indiana on the two yard line in 1982? That team would have missed a bowl game, may have been labeled as a one year wonder, affected recruiting, may have lost key in state talent to Iowa State and Nebraska, on and on I could go. Mental mindset. When the game is on the line, make the play. Don't flinch.

 

[Drakebulldog93]

Are you f'ing serious?!! He has been here 8 years. Don't you think he should have figured out by now "he just needs to focus more time on it" ??

He either doesn't know how to coach defense or doesn't care. Which is it? Because he has a history. What is the common denominator because the last time I checked no player has 8 years of eligibility?

 

[SCHawkeye2]

Just to be clear, I'm not even arguing whether or not Fran should keep his job. All I'm saying is it has to be really really bad to want to root against him, just for the sake of change.

I think Fran needs to go. I would prefer the program not deteriorate to make that happen, but as long as Barta is AD and giving contract extensions for mediocre performance, it may necessary for that to happen before Fran is shown the door.

 

[Hawk5656]

At this point I am hoping my patience will be rewarded. Similar to Villanova sticking with Jay Wright on multiple occasions. A deep run in the tournament in 19-20 and all of this would have been worth it.

Did you just compare Fran to Jay Wright? Haha!

 

[trj]

Did you just compare Fran to Jay Wright? Haha!

They wanted to run him out of Dodge on multiple occasions and he was able to figure it out. Yeah, I am hoping Fran can figure it out. Will he? That’s the million dollar question and a lot of people have their doubts.

Sorry, not everyone can be as great as Fred Hoiberg.

 

[Hawk5656]

They wanted to run him out of Dodge on multiple occasions and he was able to figure it out. Yeah, I am hoping Fran can figure it out. Will he? That’s the million dollar question and a lot of people have their doubts.

Sorry, not everyone can be as great as Fred Hoiberg.

What years did Villanova fans try to run him out of dodge? Fred Hoiberg sucks, the sooner the Bulls realize that the better.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

And Fran did that with spare parts and leftovers on the recruiting trail. He's finally getting a roster full of high 3 and more 4 stars. This was a bad season for a number of reasons that honestly would have been ameliorated if Connor would have been healthy and Baer would have played at the same level as the last two years. Instead, one was out and the other regressed. Next year we're adding Wieskamp and Fredrick to that mix. We're going to win our share of games.

Ameliorated. Well played.