This sucks

[bogeyman]

To ease the pain of this basketball season I suggest you all jump on board the Hawkeye Baseball Wagon! We have a thread in the Big 10 Sports Forum and they are a fun team to watch. Play the game the right way and have one of the best staff's around. Perhaps the one program in the entire University playing above expectations and that has actually performed well at the end of their seasons. Welcome aboard everyone

 

[HuckFinn]

Patrick McCaffery is only a junior in high school

I was talking about Conner. Sorry.

 

[lightning1]

This OMG. Even middle of the pack conference teams had players like Scott Skiles, Dennis Hopson. In January 1987 Iowa, Purdue, Illinois, and Indiana were all ranked in the top ten and Iowa beat them all in eight days. Dick Vitale made regular visits to town because Iowa was frequently playing in the biggest game in the country that night. Students had no trouble finding Carver back then. And the blue hairs were told to take their bridge tournaments elsewhere.

Don't forget Michigan. They were loaded as well and won 2 Big Ten titles in the mid 80s.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Don't forget Michigan. They were loaded as well and won 2 Big Ten titles in the mid 80s.

And a NC in 1989 (speaking of loaded big ten's.) And that was before the Fab Five Days. Good call.

BTW no opposing coach was more fun to make fun of than Bill Frieder. And that includes Knight, Heathcote, Henson, Keady, Orr, all of them. He was constantly putting his foot in his mouth by making derogatory comments toward Iowa. It was like giving Bryce Harper a center cut fastball.

 

[lightning1]

And a NC in 1989 (speaking of loaded big ten's.) And that was before the Fab Five Days. Good call.

BTW no opposing coach was more fun to make fun of than Bill Frieder. And that includes Knight, Heathcote, Henson, all of them. He was constantly putting his foot in his mouth by making derogatory comments toward Iowa. It was like giving Bryce Harper a center cut fastball.

I'm sure Bill wasn't happy with Michigan kids like Bill Jones, Roy Marble and BJ Armstrong playing at Iowa. Lol.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I'm sure Bill wasn't happy with Michigan kids like Bill Jones, Roy Marble and BJ Armstrong playing at Iowa. Lol.[/QU
Loved Jones. Swiss army knife type player. At 6'7" 190 he ended up playing power forward his senior year after Lorenzen went down. Reminds me of Maishe Dailey and looked like him too. Once backed up BJ at the point. Played a trapping small forward on Ravelings best team. Gave Ricky Calloway FITS!

Loved Jones. Swiss army knife type player. At 6'7" 190 he ended up playing power forward his senior year after Lorenzen went down. Reminds me of Maishe Dailey and looked like him too. Once backed up BJ at the point. Played a trapping small forward on Ravelings best team. Gave Ricky Calloway FITS!

 

[theboat]

I don't disagree with that. It's just crazy that one terrible season can be enough to make someone root against the hawks. Especially since the coach has shown he can win here at a pretty good level.

Your definition of pretty good is different than mine. But then again some people are content with average and then tout their average body of work like its special.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Points well taken. One of the reasons the half court struggled, like you say, is because Cordell was dribbling the ball of his leg or getting it stripped from his hands when he tried to make his move. One of the 178 ways he wasn't as effective this year. JBo was trying. And I like Cordell. He just needs to get his head in a good place, accept his role (he's no Garza), and come back strong.

Pemsl is just another body unless and until he starts taking and making the mid-range jumper; which I believe he is capable of doing. Otherwise, he has minimal success underneath because he is undersized...and can't really dunk. And by virtue of that, he plays below the rim. Cook, Garze (barely) and Nunge are our guys that play above the rim. Being honest, I don't mind JBo running the fast break, he is good at that. but, as I've stated, its the half court off/def where we see his limitations.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Oh yeah. We lost to Louisville and the Purdue game was consolation. I thought something about that scenario didn't feel right. It's been a long time to go off memory. My apologies. I was 9 years old when I started watching Lute Olsen's teams. I don't have a great recollection of them. I suppose my adult opinion of his results might differ from my opinion of them when I was a kid.

and, that was the last consolation game ever played. And yeah, Ronnie Lester was that good. Unstoppable in his era. legit dominant player.

 

[PCHawk]

Your definition of pretty good is different than mine. But then again some people are content with average and then tout their average body of work like its special.

What do you call a top 30ish season then? I assume you call it average by your response?

 

[PCHawk]

You're the one "questioning" it. Most of us already know the answer.

So PCHawk questioning whether he doesn't know how to coach defense or doesn't choose to spend time on it is the reason he has to be fired NOW? I didn't know my opinion was so important.

If you know the answer, which one is it? Does he not no how to coach it, or does he choose not to?

 

[Northside Hawk]

Pemsl is just another body unless and until he starts taking and making the mid-range jumper; which I believe he is capable of doing. Otherwise, he has minimal success underneath because he is undersized...and can't really dunk. And by virtue of that, he plays below the rim. Cook, Garze (barely) and Nunge are our guys that play above the rim. Being honest, I don't mind JBo running the fast break, he is good at that. but, as I've stated, its the half court off/def where we see his limitations.

Pemsl slimmed down this year with the idea that it would improve his game but I think it hurt his game. How many times at the lighter weight did you see him run the floor and fill a lane? When he was at 250 he could seal his defender with his rear end and make his move. Unfortunately it's been decades since Wes Unseld types were effective; there is very little back to the basket in today's game. You're right about expanding the mid range game. He had it on two high school championship teams; he has to do it on this level or he will fall further down the bench. Garza has passed him up in the rotation and in NYC Kreiner seemed to move ahead of him as well. It's not difficult to see why. They're taller more mobile and harder to defend.

 

[dahlhawk]

With a healthy Lester, we don't play that Purdue team because we would have played (and beat) UCLA for the championship. But you already knew that. I'm not down on Lute, but think Kirk Ferentz with me for a minute. Lute pissed away several NCAA games and late season Big Ten games (in the pre shot clock era, and that's critical in this argument) because he stalled late in games and let lesser competition hang around. Remember Toledo in 1979, Wichita State in 1981, and Idaho in 1982. But you are right. While the last 25 years haven't been complete misery, sometimes it's better to have lost in love than to have not lost at all, so to speak.

Just to point out that lessor Wichita State team had two 10 years plus NBA forwards on that team.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

Pemsl slimmed down this year with the idea that it would improve his game but I think it hurt his game. How many times at the lighter weight did you see him run the floor and fill a lane? When he was at 250 he could seal his defender with his rear end and make his move. Unfortunately it's been decades since Wes Unseld types were effective; there is very little back to the basket in today's game. You're right about expanding the mid range game. He had it on two high school championship teams; he has to do it on this level or he will fall further down the bench. Garza has passed him up in the rotation and in NYC Kreiner seemed to move ahead of him as well. It's not difficult to see why. They're taller more mobile and harder to defend.

and they both take and make the 15 ft jumper. you're right on.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Just to point out that lessor Wichita State team had two 10 years plus NBA forwards on that team.

Levingston and Carr, absolutely. I do believe we were the higher seeded team. In 1981 the field was 48 teams, necessitating byes. We had one. WSU played in the opening round. Remember that game being played on Wichita State's home floor? And blowing a fifteen point halftime lead? And Lute being assessed the technical for calling a Chris Webber timeout? And the WSU coach's son shooting the daggers from the line? Nightmare scenerio, but as good as the two NBA ten year pros were, we were the higher seeded team. Last game in a Hawk uniform for Vince Brookins, who after his performance in the 1980 postseason has probably never had to pay for a meal in the state of Iowa ever since.

 

[dahlhawk]

Maybe I'm crazy but Big 10 road wins have always been like finding 4 leaf clovers, Iowa even under the legendary Lute Olson lost many road games. Iowa was always good about defending the home court though. Usually, one or two home losses were normal under Lute, Tom, and even Steve did a good job there, I guess we need to ask what is our expectations for Iowa basketball and are they realistic? Big Ten titles are rare for programs like Iowa who are not geographically located next to a major urban area. I guess if we want to be like the Big Dogs of college basketball how many on this board would be comfortable being on the infamous list of cheaters from the FBI list. It's basically the list of today's top 25 programs. I just want to know what people on this board are willing to accept for more wins. Chances are nothing is going to happen to these programs that will matter. They will lawyer it all away and back to business as usual. Meanwhile, Fran loses out on players he identified in 5th grade and recruited to senior year and then another program swoops in and poof , they gone. Given the lack of punishment should we get a coach who plays the game, or stick with Fran?

 

[dahlhawk]

Levingston and Carr, absolutely. I do believe we were the higher seeded team. In 1981 the field was 48 teams, necessitating byes. We had one. WSU played in the opening round. Remember that game being played on Wichita State's home floor? And blowing a fifteen point halftime lead? And Lute being assessed the technical for calling a Chris Webber timeout? And the WSU coach's son shooting the daggers from the line? Nightmare scenerio, but as good as the two NBA ten year pros were, we were the higher seeded team. Last game in a Hawk uniform for Vince Brookins, who after his performance in the 1980 postseason has probably never had to pay for a meal in the state of Iowa ever since.

I still have nightmares on the TO, and Brookins is still my favorite Hawkeye, sweet sweet jump shot.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Maybe I'm crazy but Big 10 road wins have always been like finding 4 leaf clovers, Iowa even under the legendary Lute Olson lost many road games. Iowa was always good about defending the home court though. Usually, one or two home losses were normal under Lute, Tom, and even Steve did a good job there, I guess we need to ask what is our expectations for Iowa basketball and are they realistic? Big Ten titles are rare for programs like Iowa who are not geographically located next to a major urban area. I guess if we want to be like the Big Dogs of college basketball how many on this board would be comfortable being on the infamous list of cheaters from the FBI list. It's basically the list of today's top 25 programs. I just want to know what people on this board are willing to accept for more wins. Chances are nothing is going to happen to these programs that will matter. They will lawyer it all away and back to business as usual. Meanwhile, Fran loses out on players he identified in 5th grade and recruited to senior year and then another program swoops in and poof , they gone. Given the lack of punishment should we get a coach who plays the game, or stick with Fran?

Ironically Fran, before this year, has had a decent road record in the conference for several years. You win close to half your raod games in this league and you should be near the top echelon of the conference.

 

[N8theGr8]

Ironically Fran, before this year, has had a decent road record in the conference for several years. You win close to half your raod games in this league and you should be near the top echelon of the conference.

And Fran did that with spare parts and leftovers on the recruiting trail. He's finally getting a roster full of high 3 and more 4 stars. This was a bad season for a number of reasons that honestly would have been ameliorated if Connor would have been healthy and Baer would have played at the same level as the last two years. Instead, one was out and the other regressed. Next year we're adding Wieskamp and Fredrick to that mix. We're going to win our share of games.

 

[theboat]

What do you call a top 30ish season then? I assume you call it average by your response?

Losing in the first round of the BIG tournament and being a 7 seed is above average. It is also the exception to the Fran rule. I don’t get how some people are dumb enough to think Fran will become something at 60 years old that he has never been. After 8 years at Iowa, he is what he is. We may get a 3 year build to an above average result. That isn’t enough. I would have more respect for you if you admitted that that is all you expect out of Iowa basketball. But when you think they are gonna magically be good consistently with zero evidence to support that, it is just silly.