The "Youth" argument does hold some water

[jparmley3]

Now, we have Todd Lickliter, NATIONAL COACH OF THE YEAR, hello who was more qualified to take over. Take a look at our last two recruiting classes they are as good as we have had for years. With next years good class we will be ok.

What is your definition of 'years' - 30?

Other than Alford's first season, there was not a single class of his recruits I would rank lower than any of Lickliter's. He got in the living room with some top 100 kids, and had a few commit.

Lickliter is not even invited to knock on the door.

As for the NATIONAL COACH OF THE YEAR, that was a wonderful accomplishment for Coack Lickliter.

WAS.

Now, we have the FORMER NCOTY and he has done nothing to show me he deserved the honor.

I was not the biggest Davis fan, but he certainly got the most out of what he had.

We have (1) kid on our roster, one, that could play for any other team in the Big Ten without question (Gatens).

In the next 15 months we will see what the Former NCOTY is made of.

Because, IMHO, the two recruiting classes you speak so fondly of are not what they used to be.

But, I hope we turn the corner.
Matt Gatens deserves better.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

All of this doom and gloom. How about we look at ourselves as fans. Maybe kids do not want to stay at Iowa because we (FANS) have never been satisfied. Like it or not we ran Tom Davis out. Everything was, we can never get by the first round of the tournament. We are sick of watching his style of basketball. Why are we constantly rotating new players in as soon as someone gets hot. Everyone in Iowa had all the answers.
Then we ran Steve off. Yes, the Northwestern State game was a huge melt down. However, he had some very good teams. And it was never good enough. Steve was hard to deal with sometimes. However he was a good coach.
Now, we have Todd Lickliter, NATIONAL COACH OF THE YEAR, hello who was more qualified to take over. Take a look at our last two recruiting classes they are as good as we have had for years. With next years good class we will be ok. In no way was Coach responsible for our defections. These students play for the University of Iowa. Is our coaching staff to cater to spoiled 19 year olds who want to be individuals. The coaches are the leaders. They are the teachers.
Seriously lets get behind this coach. Fill the stands, these kids want and deserve to be cheered for. They are working very hard. Let's embrace what we have and make the best of it. The foundation is being laid. The system works and has worked all over the country.

Sigh.. Can we please stop blaming the fans for the poor state of the basketball program? How about placing the blame where it truly belongs - on the coaches and the AD's who have hired them?

I tell you one thing - if I do poorly at my job, only one person is held accountable. Care to take a guess at who that would be? That's one problem with today's society - no personal accountability. With some people, it's always someone else's fault.

You are seriously blaming the transfers on the fanbase? Are you freaking kidding me? Completely ignore the fact that several of the transfers happened because they were unhappy playing a slow down game, or did not see eye to eye with the coach. Yes, it IS Lickliter's responsibility to keep players in the program. You work with what you've got rather than run them off of the team because you are so inflexible.

The empty arena and lack of fan support is a symptom/result of a poor basketball program, not the CAUSE.

 

[Firehawk11]

Nice, I like it. I do agree with you we are not the cause. However we can be part of the solution. Recruits will not want to come here if there is not stability. Constant negativety from out boards is not what we want. Do you seriously think the kids do not visit these sites. Coming to the University of Iowa will be one of the biggest decisions of their lives. I guarantee recruits and their families research message boards as much as anyone else. University of Iowa held up their end of the bargain to Smith, Peterson, Kelly. They are the ones that put Iowa in the current situation. We will dig out of it. I remember when Kirk Ferentz was the worst hire the University of Iowa had ever made. We will be ok.

 

[parquet]

Another team that is really close to the same "youth" numbers is New Mexico. Three upperclassmen (1 Sr, 2 Jr) then 4 sophs and 4 freshmen.

 

[Thawki]

It holds water in one way, stormin.

It can legitimize the results of the win-loss record in terms of what may be realistic expectations. It doesn't let a coach off of the hook for putting the program in that position, however.

To amplify my example, if the team were the youngest one in the country every year for ten years in a row, we wouldn't give the coach a pass but we would say he is responsible for that predicament. He would be dismissed accordingly at some point.

I am not saying we are in that situation right now. I am simply pointing out that being young is only a good excuse for a certain amount of time, however long it is.

 

[storminspank]

Another team that is really close to the same "youth" numbers is New Mexico. Three upperclassmen (1 Sr, 2 Jr) then 4 sophs and 4 freshmen.

87th least experienced in the nation out of 347 teams.
Bottom 1/4 in experience.

 

[parquet]

Originally Posted by parquet
Another team that is really close to the same "youth" numbers is New Mexico. Three upperclassmen (1 Sr, 2 Jr) then 4 sophs and 4 freshmen.

87th least experienced in the nation out of 347 teams.
Bottom 1/4 in experience.

But their experience is almost identical to ours; that's what I was pointing out.

Iowa one senior NM one senior
Iowa two juniors NM two juniors
Iowa four sophs NM four sophs
Iowa three freshmen NM four freshmen

The difference in experience rankings must be the JC players. Come on, Spank, what is it you don't agree with about this?

 

[Thawki]

Come on, Firehawk.

Your logic infers that other programs that are successful don't have fans as rabid or demanding as Iowa's. We are not unique as a fan base, despite what some would lead you to believe.

Weak analysis. Sorry.

 

[storminspank]

Originally Posted by parquet
Another team that is really close to the same "youth" numbers is New Mexico. Three upperclassmen (1 Sr, 2 Jr) then 4 sophs and 4 freshmen.



But their experience is almost identical to ours; that's what I was pointing out.

Iowa one senior NM one senior
Iowa two juniors NM two juniors
Iowa four sophs NM four sophs
Iowa three freshmen NM four freshmen

The difference in experience rankings must be the JC players. Come on, Spank, what is it you don't agree with about this?

I was agreeing with you, this was data supporting your argument.
Sorry, my fault for being so cryptic. I do agree with people from time to time on here.

 

[storminspank]

How is this figured? A source would be nice!

Source is on the original post.
It's the experience column from Pomeroy's site.

 

[parquet]

I was agreeing with you, this was data supporting your argument.
Sorry, my fault for being so cryptic. I do agree with people from time to time on here.

Yeah, I figured that out later, but that involved subtracting and all that stuff and it was late and that Christmas wine needed to be finished. Never thanked you for turning me on to kenpom; it's a great way to spend time, especially when the mother-in-law is here for a while.