The way some people on this board villify Vandy

[albertyoungisgood]

wait, did someone say JVB can't throw the fade? That's dumb. He's thrown a ton of nice fades, they are a very high percentage throw for him.
Also, wins and losses are a bit overrated when evaluating a QB. There are ten other players on offense, then defense, then special teams, then coaching. How much can one QB really do?
Our record and ranking with Nathan Chandler as a senior was better than with Stanzi as a senior, yet how many people would say Chandler was better? (not meant to rip NC at all, he's underrated, just making the point)

 

[silvanthalas]

People trying to rip this kid are very, very out of touch.

I think the key with a lot of this is to look at his home vs away numbers. BTN showed some of them during the game, and I'm betting it's a pretty drastic difference.

Vandenberg got the job done today. He didn't in previous road games. That's his first road win at all, isn't it? I can see why some would *feel* like Vandenberg wasn't playing well, simply because of our road struggles.

And it doesn't matter where we play: he does have a habit of staring down receivers at times, etc. But then, didn't Stanzi, too? Something about QB coaching seems appropriate right about now...

 

[DTF]

What about last year when Stanzi failed all five times to lead game winning drives at the end against AZ, Wisky, OSU, NW, and Minnesota?

Stanzi was a good QB but not the Joe Montana people seem to remember. He and JVB are very similar overall.

How many of those games were they winning with minutes left in the 4th but the defense couldn't get a stop? How many times was he sacked on those drives? The difference between '09 and '10 was the defense and Iowa's inability to block pass rushers on final drives, I wouldn't say they lost those games because his passes were inaccurate.

In relation to the subject at hand, though, I think Vandy is good, but not great. There are easy passes that he throws poorly (which leads to some of the drops) and impossible throws that are right on the money. He takes care of the ball, which is good. I swear though, he scrambles into sacks more than any QB I've seen. There are times where he's got room to run but runs into a blocker/defender or towards the smallest hole in the LOS, has anyone else noticed that?

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

JVB has fantastic numbers this season. His next step needs to be to get some big wins.

Stanzi who lacked good numbers until his SR year has a laundry list of big wins:

PSU 2008 (first win against top 5 team since 1990)
Outback Bowl 2008 season
@PSU 2009 (another win against top 5 team)
@Wisconsin 2009 (10 win team)
@MSU 2009
Orange Bowl 2009 season (biggest win for the program in 50 years)
MSU 2010 (top 10 team)

That is 5 huge wins outside Kinnick. With the exception of PSU 2009 Stanzi had a huge part of each.


JVB has 1 win away from Kinnick in his career. Like it or, QBs will always be judged first and foremost on wins.

Stanzi also played with great defenses keeping teams out of the end zone. This defense could have protected wins at Iowa State, and at Minnesota, but they didn't. Not exactly signature wins, but wins away from home non the less.

Our Orange Bowl year, Stanzi made bad decisions that almost cost us numerous games. He made them close with bonehead plays, and without the defense those games go the other way.

 

[RocknRollface]

How many of those games were they winning with minutes left in the 4th but the defense couldn't get a stop? How many times was he sacked on those drives? The difference between '09 and '10 was the defense and Iowa's inability to block pass rushers on final drives, I wouldn't say they lost those games because his passes were inaccurate.

In relation to the subject at hand, though, I think Vandy is good, but not great. There are easy passes that he throws poorly (which leads to some of the drops) and impossible throws that are right on the money. He takes care of the ball, which is good. I swear though, he scrambles into sacks more than any QB I've seen. There are times where he's got room to run but runs into a blocker/defender or towards the smallest hole in the LOS, has anyone else noticed that?

Not trying to pin the blame on Rick but in every one of those losses he had a chance to either put the game away or win it on Iowas last offensive possession and failed to do so all five times, and a sixth time in the bowl which we would have lost if not for Hydes pick 6.

People seem to remember every mistake Vandenburg makes, not to mention exaggerate most of them, but they manage to overlook an entire season when it comes to Stanzi.

 

[BSpringsteen]

My point about JVB is that stats can lie.

Ricky had a monsterous statistical year last season, way better than '09, but we all knew that he lost his magic.

JVB hasn't lost us a single game this year. He also single handedly won the Pitt game. But he also hasn't put games away, much like Stanzi last year.

There is a huge difference between having the skill set, and having the skills.

I happen to think that JVB has the potential to be great next season, but he isn't great now, and 13 games into his starting career, there is enough there to say that he is no longer young for a QB. Many QB's only get one season.

 

[hawkfan340]

Stanzi also played with great defenses keeping teams out of the end zone. This defense could have protected wins at Iowa State, and at Minnesota, but they didn't. Not exactly signature wins, but wins away from home non the less.

Our Orange Bowl year, Stanzi made bad decisions that almost cost us numerous games. He made them close with bonehead plays, and without the defense those games go the other way.

We had an outstanding D in 2009, no doubt. But without Stanzi, we're a .500 team. You can't win with half a team, and Stanzi was basically our offense that year. Yes, he made a lot of mistakes, but he also made a lot of great plays. You got to take the good and bad together.

 

[hawkfan340]

JVB has been very good this year. I do think some people over hype him, but he's a strength on this team far more than he is a liability.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

makes me remember Matt Sherman and the abuse he took.

Fans are so fickle.

What is the record today? Are the Hawks going bowling?

Some people just have to complain to make themselves feel relevant.

I remember playing basketball against Matt Sherman at the field house a couple days after he had another horrible game.

I was hack an shaq on him all day... he kept looking at me like "whats your prob dude?"

 

[hawkIhoops]

No idea why people are down on Vandenberg. He is having an excellent year playing in one of the most mundane offenses in the big ten. If our O coordinator had any feel for the game and wasn't afraid to break from obvious tendencies, Vandenberg would have even better numbers.

 

[homes]

he's exactly the qb his statistics would have you believe. he's not putting up "system" numbers. he's running a pro style offense in which he has the responsibility to run it, including audibling out of dead plays, changing protections. etc. he's earned every stat he has, and maybe more. Iowa has more drops than anyone in the big ten.

I knew Iowa had drops this year, but I was surprised to see they had the most drops in the conference - and this is with our best set of receivers in 10 years. Question though - What qualifies as a drop?

I would like to see him learn how to move around in the pocket better without scrambling, my impression is that as soon as he sees heat he scrambles out instead of moving up or sideway to allow a pattern to develop. I think he will learn that for next year.

 

[RocknRollface]

I knew Iowa had drops this year, but I was surprised to see they had the most drops in the conference - and this is with our best set of receivers in 10 years. Question though - What qualifies as a drop?

I would like to see him learn how to move around in the pocket better without scrambling, my impression is that as soon as he sees heat he scrambles out instead of moving up or sideway to allow a pattern to develop. I think he will learn that for next year.

A drop is anything that hits the receiver in the hands and then ends up an incompletion.

I agree he needs work on his pocket awareness.

I wish Iowa would use allot more shotgun, Vandy makes better reads out of the gun than he does under center.

 

[truehawk]

Im surprised we are leading the B1G in drops because Nebraska can't catch an std from a hooker.

 

[NewMexHawk]

To be considered a good QB, one has to play well on the road as well as play well at home. Vandenberg simply has not been a good QB when playing on the road for whatever reason.

And in Ferentz's system backup QBs just don't get a chance after he has annointed a QB. It took many many games before Ferentz even considered letting an underclassman challenge Jake Christensen, even though the entire Hawkeye Nation could see that Christensen was a very very bad QB.

In other words, Vandenberg has been annointed starting QB and no one else will play in any games, regardless of potential.

What Iowa has is a solid QB at home (in most games) and a very poor QB on the road. Thus, Iowa will lose most games on the road with a poor QB at the helm.

Perhaps the Purdue game has changed things??? Guess we will see Friday won't we. Against a pretty solid defense, I don't look for Vandenberg to do much...he hasn't in most games so why would he here. The OSU game was outstanding but it was Ferentz who didn't allow Iowa or Vandenberg to win that game.

 

[BackNBlk]

Up until today he's played mediocre to poor away from Kinnick. I think most of the criticism has come after those away games. Although I also think you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. I wouldn't say he's even in the top 5 as far as critical discussions on these message boards.

Boy I REALLY disagree here Jon. He has played some terrible football this season. He was basically flat out bad, hell terrible, against Iowa St, Penn st, Minnesota, and Michigan St.
He had ONE good quarter (maybe 1.5) against Pitt. Was okay against Michigan and NW.

What Iowa has is a solid QB at home (in most games) and a very poor QB on the road. Thus, Iowa will lose most games on the road with a poor QB at the helm.

The numbers don’t back you guys up though.



ISU (16/28 for 207 and 2 TDs vs 0 ints)
Penn St (17/34 for 169 and 0 TDs vs 2 ints)
Minnesota (16/24 for 177 and 1 TD vs 0 ints)


So he really had only one bad game on the road and every QB has one of those now and then. Look at Kirk Cousins last year at Iowa. Even the MSU game wasn’t that bad (22/47 for 262 and 2 TDs vs 1 int). When you couple that with leading the Big 10 in dropped balls and the fact that they allow over 2 sacks a game, those numbers are far above terrible. Sure, JVB is guilty of some of those sacks, but not more than half. They had 23 dropped passes heading into the Purdue game and I think they dropped 3-5 more in that game.

He takes care of the ball, which is good. I swear though, he scrambles into sacks more than any QB I've seen. There are times where he's got room to run but runs into a blocker/defender or towards the smallest hole in the LOS, has anyone else noticed that?

…and how many times has he scrambled for a first down or gotten away from a tackler? Plenty.


He’s no Ricky as a scrambler, but he’s way better as a pure passer.
At WORST, he has been average on the road, but more likely he’s in the above average category if you give him a mulligan against Penn State. Why give him a mulligan you ask? Well, when you consider how good Penn State’s defense has been and who they have shut down:
JVB, McCarron, TerBush, Scheelhaase, Persa, Martinez and Miller combined for (86/149 57% for 908 yards (153 a game) and 5 TDs to 3 ints). Persa is the only one who looked even remotely good against them.

 

[David79]

Vandenberg is a good QB but he also has the benefit of having the best wide receiver in Iowa football history along with Coker and Davis. His problem is that sometimes he panics when he starts to feel pressure in the pocket. I think if Iowa is not first it is close to in in sacks allowed and a lot of seems to be on Vandenberg either panicking or waiting too long and taking a sack instead of getting rid of the ball. Just look at that play in the endzone against Purdue. He got pressured and istead of trying to just throw it away he starts getting happy feet and tries to run it out of the endzone.

 

[azhawkeyefan]

I think Vandy has been very good. We are very fortunate to have had 2 straight multi-year good starters in Stanzi and Vandenberg. This experience and skill at QB is why our "down" season is at 7 wins currently. With a Christinsen at QB this team is probably at 4 wins right now.

 

[BackNBlk]

Vandenberg is a good QB but he also has the benefit of having the best wide receiver in Iowa football history along with Coker and Davis. His problem is that sometimes he panics when he starts to feel pressure in the pocket. I think if Iowa is not first it is close to in in sacks allowed and a lot of seems to be on Vandenberg either panicking or waiting too long and taking a sack instead of getting rid of the ball. Just look at that play in the endzone against Purdue. He got pressured and istead of trying to just throw it away he starts getting happy feet and tries to run it out of the endzone.

What game were you watching? He was in the tackle box....if he throws it away, it's intentional grounding and a safety. The pressure from his right was forcing him back in and when he tried to head for the hole between LT and LG, Short forced him back towards the middle.

 

[Clark]

What game were you watching? He was in the tackle box....if he throws it away, it's intentional grounding and a safety. The pressure from his right was forcing him back in and when he tried to head for the hole between LT and LG, Short forced him back towards the middle.

You can throw it away to a spot that's near a receiver so they won't call it grounding.

If you're standing in your endzone you have to know you can't take a sack.

 

[BackNBlk]

You can throw it away to a spot that's near a receiver so they won't call it grounding.

If you're standing in your endzone you have to know you can't take a sack.

...and if he forced a throw that is "near" a WR and it gets picked for a TD, he is still a goat to people. He wasn't trying to "take" a sack, he was trying to get out of the endzone. Sorry, but that situation was untenable both in terms of what JVB could have done that would have made people happy and more importantly what play could have been called that wouldn't have resulted in disaster.