The Unknown is worse than Ferentz

@hawkfan33

They all were successful at multiple coaching stops. Do your own google search!


Comparing the Iowa program to Kansas and Minnesota is a problem in itself.

Jerry Kill was also about 11th out of 10 candidates the Gophers wanted to hire. He admitted that himself.

Turner Gill had no major head coaching experience other than Buffalo so that was incorrect.

Dan Hawkins had no major coaching experience outside of Baylor prior to Colorado unless you count Williamette.

Todd Graham has been at Pitt for one frickin' season and is trying to implement a new offense
 
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Comparing the Iowa program to Kansas and Minnesota is a problem in itself.

Agreed, but he's actually comparing Kansas and Minnesota to Michigan and the fact that he was wrong on four of his five examples was also a little bit of the problem too.
 
Don't you think this is one of the deepest roots of the problem?!?
FAT CATS.
I give money. I know people who give a lot more than me. NONE of us is satisfied with the direction of the FB program.
It shouldn't be like this.
One more thought, Vintage and I promise you can have the last word.

Let's assume you are athletic director at Iowa. You have a big donor base. You are selling out your stadium. There is very little scandal in your athletic department. You are going to bowl games. You obviously are not on probation. It looks like you are going to sell out your season tickets next year. Your livelihood depends on the PROFITABILITY of your athletic department. Do you really fire Ferentz now? Is that the "percentage" play? Is that the proper management of risk and reward? I really believe that if you were AD, you would keep Ferentz, just like Barta obviously will do.
 
Actually, I think you have lost this gunfight. You have been exposed.

No one who manages risk successfully adopts the kind of attitude you are displaying. If you are as successful as you imply you are, then you take calculated risks. The same is true in college football - keeping Ferentz and supporting him is the calculated risk and the smart investment. It is the only risk that Barta can take right now.

Ferentz is the hero - he is the one who has the courage to stay at Iowa and continue to chase bowl games, big ten titles, etc. He had many chances to leave Iowa, but chose to stay in Iowa City. His entire book at Iowa has not been written - Iowa will have additional great seasons, IMO.

Have you ever given any thought to the reason Kirk stay's in Iowa City? He knows himself obviously better than most. IMO, he stays because he is comfortable in Iowa City. Do you think if he was at a more "high profile" job, whether it be college or NFL, he would be able to handle the scrutiny that comes with being the head man? I don't, and I think he knows how good he has it in Iowa City. If anything, I think he's snowballed everyone to get raises and pay above what he has actually produced, especially the better part of the last 6 years.
 
One more thought, Vintage and I promise you can have the last word.

Let's assume you are athletic director at Iowa. You have a big donor base. You are selling out your stadium. There is very little scandal in your athletic department. You are going to bowl games. You obviously are not on probation. It looks like you are going to sell out your season tickets next year. Your livelihood depends on the PROFITABILITY of your athletic department. Do you really fire Ferentz now? Is that the "percentage" play? Is that the proper management of risk and reward? I really believe that if you were AD, you would keep Ferentz, just like Barta obviously will do.

Barta couldn't fire nobody at this point. He knows he is one bad hire away from looking for a job himself. He's praying against all hope Fran McCaffery works out because he knows if he doesn't, Barta himself will be unemployed as well. After his debacle of a hire in Lickliter, Gary Barta can't make any moves when it comes to firing anyone. Quiet frankly, if Ferentz ever moved on, I hope like heck that Gary Barta isn't the AD making the next football hire. I have no confidence in him.
 
Well, here is the beauty of it. I think Ferentz will be coach at Iowa until he chooses not to be the coach. Barta will not fire him, so Ferentz will get to prove his worth as a coach over the next several seasons. You may be right, but I believe you are wrong.

Football is pretty black and white - every game results in a win or a loss.
 
Well, here is the beauty of it. I think Ferentz will be coach at Iowa until he chooses not to be the coach. Barta will not fire him, so Ferentz will get to prove his worth as a coach over the next several seasons. You may be right, but I believe you are wrong.

Football is pretty black and white - every game results in a win or a loss.

We hope he proves us wrong, but his mediocre track record since 2005 and the lack of talent on next seasons roster has us believing otherwise.
 
Really MLk comparison?

Really, an inability to recognize the principle? I never once suggested that college football is as big of a deal as the Civil Rights Movement. But whether or not a change is NEEDED is not affected by whether or not it will actually HAPPEN.

Dude who has no insurance might NEED to get his fingers reattached from a shop accident. But because he doesn't have insurance, it won't HAPPEN.
 
Quit talking about $$ - (while not an obstacle at Iowa)

The Fla/Ohio St/Mich/Texas/USC, etc. - compared to Iowa - difficulty in sustainable recruiting - we are & always will be a program dependent on finding some diamonds in the rough that can be developed (and walk-ons).... thinking a 'big-time' coach would come here to have to recruit harder than 'traditional' powers & outwork - not reality based thinking.
 
Turner Gill: Buffalo and ???
Dan Hawkins: Boise St and ???
Jerry Kill: Northern Illinois and ??? (at the FBS level)
Mike Haywood: Miami (OH) and ???
Todd Graham: Rice and Tulsa

So you got one out of five right, might want to stop going off the top of your head LOL.

And good to see that you're judging Graham a failure after one season, way to be consistent there champ.

@hawkfan33

They all were successful at multiple coaching stops. Do your own google search!

I decided to do the Google search for you.

Turner Gill- Only previously served as head coach at Buffalo where he compiled a record of 20-30. Success by Buffalo standards, I'll give you that. But multiple coaching stops? Where?

Dan Hawkins- Had success at Boise State prior to being named coach at Colorado. Multiple stops? Not unless you count coaching at Willamette (NAIA)

Jerry Kill- His only success prior to Minnesota at the FBS level was at Northern Illinois where he compiled a 23-16 record recording zero bowl wins in the two games he coached. Previous coaching stop included Southern Illinois where his teams qualified for the the playoffs five times and losing in the first or second round of the playoffs in four of five appearances. Also had stops at Emporia State and Saginaw Valley State. Multiple stops yes. But at the FBS level, no. Northern Illinois to Minnesota.

Mike Haywood- Head coach of Miami Ohio for two seasons compiling a 10-15 record. Previously coached at a host of other schools in a variety of different roles including a stint as RB coach at Notre Dame from 2005-2008 where the Fighting Irish fought to a record of 29-21, which by Notre Dame standards is very sub par. As far as Head Coaching experience, multiple stops, no.

Todd Graham- Head coach at Rice for a season (7-6) then Tulsa for four seasons. So yes, he had previous head coaching success at multiple stops, i guess.

Previous FBS head coaching experience for 1 out of 5. Solid.

I find it comical that you are willing to take a wait and see approach with Hoke at Michigan but are willing to write off Todd Graham who is implementing an entirely different scheme that what Pitt had previously ran. Also, it's Kill's first year a Minnesota as well, writing him off after one season as well? So let me get this straight--wait and see approach with Hoke because he is playing with Rich Rod's guys, but no wait and see approach with Graham who is playing an entirely different scheme than what his guys were recruited for, and no wait and see approach with Kill at Minnesota playing with the empty cupboard that Brewster left? Consistent.
 
We have one hope. It's this:

Ferentz feels a little bit of the much-deserved heat coming his way. And over the next few months...he has the opportunity to connect with some old friends in coaching.

One of them looks him in the eye and tells him where he needs to improve...and why things have gone wrong. And because it's a guy he respects...Ferentz actually listens. (yeah...i know...but just use your imagination) Then he goes back to IC and starts to implement some changes...including coaching changes.

Otherwise...Mr Excitement will continue to whittle the same old stick of wood, punch the same buttons, walk the same path, bang his head on the same wall...choose your pathetically redundant metaphor... and we're f***ed.
 
The answer your looking for is impossible- there is no coach that would get Iowa to a better place.

And I thought I was a pessimist. At least my glass is still half-full, unlike yours, which has been completely empty for awhile now.

Btw, it's called The Unknown for a really good reason: you DO NOT know. You CAN NOT know.

Anybody out there who claims to know that Iowa would be worse with replacing Ferentz is full of ****.
 
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And if you remember when Alford was hired he was the top up and coming coach in America. There was a buzz around the program that hadn't been felt since the 80's. With that said its a terrible comparison simply because Iowa was way, way behind on facilities for basketball. It did handcuff Alford from that standpoint. All the money was going towards the football program. Iowa football has tremendous facilities and resources, something Iowa basketball didn't have.
FYI, Duke has crappy facilities and they seem to do just fine. Before any of you say, ah Cameron is awesome. It is a tiny, crowded, sweatbox that is on par with a old high school gym.
 
FYI, Duke has crappy facilities and they seem to do just fine. Before any of you say, ah Cameron is awesome. It is a tiny, crowded, sweatbox that is on par with a old high school gym.

Lets just say this year for fun. It couldn't have been much worse only win was Michigan. Then
ULM
Tennesse Tech
Indiana
Purdue
NW
Pittsburg

All these teams .500 or worse. Not to mention two bad losses.
What is the downside maybe lose one more. There has to be upside of this year and last.
 
FYI, Duke has crappy facilities and they seem to do just fine. Before any of you say, ah Cameron is awesome. It is a tiny, crowded, sweatbox that is on par with a old high school gym.

1. Carver was fine. It was the practice facilities (or lack thereof) that has been killing us. What were Duke's facilities like outside of Cameron?

2. Cameron has FAR, FAR more history than Carver. You even highlighted it in your post: "before any of you say Cameron is awesome." That's the general response that people have in regards to Cameron, much like a lot of Iowa fans choose to remember the nice things about the Field House and ignore the reality that it was a dump. And recruits I'm sure love the idea of playing in front of the Cameron Crazies. That kind of atmosphere is insane.
 
Originally posted by Vintage - I really don't think that playing for a BCS nat'l title once every ~7 years is that outrageous. Sh!t, LSU does it every what, 4 years? WTF does LSU offer that Iowa doesn't?? Seriously. Ever been to Baton Rouge, y'all?!? I have. It's a sh!thole!! Iowa City is fackin' Napa Valley compared to Baton Rouge.
We have NO excuses...we should be competing for much bigger stakes than we are.

I'll bite on your "Why?" questions, even though it's in my better judgement not to. Why can't Iowa be an elite program? What does LSU offer?

For one, Iowa doesn't have warm weather all year round. In fact, it's cold half the year. Makes much more difference than you think. Second, Iowa doesn't have the luxury of being in the middle of a recruiting hot bed like most southern schools (LSU, Alabama, Florida, Texas, etc.). Recruiting is the biggest part of the battle in college football, and it's a huge uphill battle at Iowa every single year. The SEC also allows over-signing of recruits, which will ultimately take better players away from teams like Iowa.

You may not like to hear the geography explanation, but it is reality. Take Nick Saban, for example. I think a lot of people (me included) would consider him one of the best college football coaches in the nation. But, what did he do when he didn't have the luxury of coaching in the south where all the talent is in his backyard and he can over sign every year?

Saban went 34-24-1 in five seaasons at Michigan State. He's lost only 4 more games than that in twice the number of seasons at LSU and Alabama. Saban was 48-16 at LSU and is currently 54-12 at Alabama.

Like you, I too would love to see the Hawkeyes become an elite, powerhouse program, but it's just not realistic. That doesn't mean I'm settling for mediocrity either. The fact is, the uphill battle of recruiting great players to Iowa will keep the Hawkeyes as perpetual underdogs to the nation's elite.

The continually rising influence of mass media will make it even more difficult going forward. The aforementioned teams like LSU, Alabama, Florida, Texas, etc. get pimped out on ESPN so much that every kid in the nation would love to go to those schools. They get their pick of the litter.

Originally posted by ChosenChildren - 99% of the Iowa fan base will be happy averaging 7 or 8 wins per season. That means that in some years Iowa will win more than that, and in some years they will win less.

Not sure what side of the coin I fall on. I'm certainly not "happy" with 7-8 wins a year, but I will make an exception taking a look at the circumstances. This year, in my mind, was one of those years considering the number of playmakers we had to replace. I went into the season thinking that if things went exactly right, Iowa could have been playing Nebraska for the right to be in the Big Ten title game.

My expectations for Iowa are to compete for 10 wins every year. My expectations are also for Iowa to beat teams like Minnesota, Iowa State, Indiana and Northwestern every year. This year and last year were unacceptable as far as that is concerned. But, if Iowa puts itself in position to win 10 games every year, I believe the conference titles and contending for BCS games will take care of itself. Laying out a number like 3-4 Big Ten titles every 10 years or 2-3 BCS games every 10 years is pretty difficult.

Originally posted by Vintage
Don't you think this is one of the deepest roots of the problem?!?
FAT CATS.
I give money. I know people who give a lot more than me. NONE of us is satisfied with the direction of the FB program.
It shouldn't be like this.

Then stop going to Iowa home games. And, get A LOT of people to do the same. That's the only way it will change. Do you think Iowa will care if people don't show up to the bowl game this year? No. They get money from the bowl people. Hit them in the pocketbook by not showing up to their home stadium and they might take notice.

I'm not one calling for wholesale changes. I still believe in Kirk Ferentz as the head coach of the Iowa Hawkeyes. And, I've never bought the money argument either. Why do I care? I'm not paying his salary. I also believe it takes a little more for Iowa to get a good/great coach. I do think Kirk needs to make some changes, though. Iowa needs a new defensive coordinator, there's just no other way to say it. Norm Parker has served Iowa very well, but some new blood is needed. I think a fiery personality like Mike Stoops or some young blood like Mark Stoops would be a great hire. As far as Mike goes, it could also help open up a recruiting pipeline in the southwest considering he's a familiar face and did have solid talent at Arizona. Ken O'Keefe also needs to be replaced. I don't think Iowa needs a completely new offensive scheme, this one still works just fine, but his game management of the playbook is not good. He out-thinks himself way too many times, much like he did this weekend on Iowa's two trips to the Nebraska 35-yard line.

Only problem here is that I believe Kirk would promote from within, and I don't know if that's the answer. I also heard from a former Iowa football player buddy of mine who's still relatively in tune with the program that he believes Brian Ferentz will be on the coaching staff at Iowa someday.
 
I do wish Ferentz would try to adjust to the way the game is played and attempt to exploit different strategies that have yet to be discovered (kind of is a similar way that Billy Beane built the A's to exploit how baseball teams are created).

I think if he implemented some new strategies and what not, with his ability to develop players, we would return to the consistent successes of 02-04. Oregon, a mid-level program who is turning into a powerhouse, clearly built their team in a non-traditional way and they have success. I don't think Iowa needs to be too severe with it but I think there are new things to be discovered in football and I would love for Iowa to get in on this.
 
I'll bite on your "Why?" questions, even though it's in my better judgement not to. Why can't Iowa be an elite program? What does LSU offer?

For one, Iowa doesn't have warm weather all year round. In fact, it's cold half the year. Makes much more difference than you think. Second, Iowa doesn't have the luxury of being in the middle of a recruiting hot bed like most southern schools (LSU, Alabama, Florida, Texas, etc.). Recruiting is the biggest part of the battle in college football, and it's a huge uphill battle at Iowa every single year. The SEC also allows over-signing of recruits, which will ultimately take better players away from teams like Iowa.

You may not like to hear the geography explanation, but it is reality. Take Nick Saban, for example. I think a lot of people (me included) would consider him one of the best college football coaches in the nation. But, what did he do when he didn't have the luxury of coaching in the south where all the talent is in his backyard and he can over sign every year?

Saban went 34-24-1 in five seaasons at Michigan State. He's lost only 4 more games than that in twice the number of seasons at LSU and Alabama. Saban was 48-16 at LSU and is currently 54-12 at Alabama.

Like you, I too would love to see the Hawkeyes become an elite, powerhouse program, but it's just not realistic. That doesn't mean I'm settling for mediocrity either. The fact is, the uphill battle of recruiting great players to Iowa will keep the Hawkeyes as perpetual underdogs to the nation's elite.

The continually rising influence of mass media will make it even more difficult going forward. The aforementioned teams like LSU, Alabama, Florida, Texas, etc. get pimped out on ESPN so much that every kid in the nation would love to go to those schools. They get their pick of the litter.



Not sure what side of the coin I fall on. I'm certainly not "happy" with 7-8 wins a year, but I will make an exception taking a look at the circumstances. This year, in my mind, was one of those years considering the number of playmakers we had to replace. I went into the season thinking that if things went exactly right, Iowa could have been playing Nebraska for the right to be in the Big Ten title game.

My expectations for Iowa are to compete for 10 wins every year. My expectations are also for Iowa to beat teams like Minnesota, Iowa State, Indiana and Northwestern every year. This year and last year were unacceptable as far as that is concerned. But, if Iowa puts itself in position to win 10 games every year, I believe the conference titles and contending for BCS games will take care of itself. Laying out a number like 3-4 Big Ten titles every 10 years or 2-3 BCS games every 10 years is pretty difficult.



Then stop going to Iowa home games. And, get A LOT of people to do the same. That's the only way it will change. Do you think Iowa will care if people don't show up to the bowl game this year? No. They get money from the bowl people. Hit them in the pocketbook by not showing up to their home stadium and they might take notice.

I'm not one calling for wholesale changes. I still believe in Kirk Ferentz as the head coach of the Iowa Hawkeyes. And, I've never bought the money argument either. Why do I care? I'm not paying his salary. I also believe it takes a little more for Iowa to get a good/great coach. I do think Kirk needs to make some changes, though. Iowa needs a new defensive coordinator, there's just no other way to say it. Norm Parker has served Iowa very well, but some new blood is needed. I think a fiery personality like Mike Stoops or some young blood like Mark Stoops would be a great hire. As far as Mike goes, it could also help open up a recruiting pipeline in the southwest considering he's a familiar face and did have solid talent at Arizona. Ken O'Keefe also needs to be replaced. I don't think Iowa needs a completely new offensive scheme, this one still works just fine, but his game management of the playbook is not good. He out-thinks himself way too many times, much like he did this weekend on Iowa's two trips to the Nebraska 35-yard line.

Only problem here is that I believe Kirk would promote from within, and I don't know if that's the answer. I also heard from a former Iowa football player buddy of mine who's still relatively in tune with the program that he believes Brian Ferentz will be on the coaching staff at Iowa someday.

Nice post Newbie... welcome aboard.
 
You ARE correct...with Ferentz we know exactly what we have...a .500 coach in the B1G, a very vanilla offense and a style of defense that only Iowa plays anymore, a play not to lose never take a chance coach who has no intentions of adjusting to new styles of play.

Had the Wisconsin QB for some strange reason come to Iowa, the coaching staff would have tried to turn him into a four-step dropback QB and would never have allowed him to be innovative. In other words the Iowa coaching staff would have prevented a great QB from being great and would have tied his hands.

There is a reason Bielma is going to his second straight Rose Bowl while Iowa gets to go to the last bowl the B1G accepts. Bielma has adapted and adjusted his style of play and is very successful; Ferentz has decided never to adapt or change anything is nothing more than a mediocre coach and will remain so.

But as long as he gets 7 wins a season many will bow down to him and treat him like the god he is in Iowa City.

So yes, Iowa KNOWS exactly what they have with Ferentz and it is only going to get worse. It won't be long before the program is back where Ferentz started and he STILL WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING. In fact, if he has to push one of his best friends (Norm) around in his wheelchair so he can remain defensive coordinator and ignore the rest of the team, that is what he will do.

Friendships and loyalties are much more important than the Iowa football program.

So yes we know exactly what we have....
 
Talking about firing Ferentz is dumb because Iowa simply cannot afford to fire Ferentz, not with his contract. No way can Iowa buy out a 10-year $4,500,000 contract that Barta was an idiot to give. Iowa fans could completely quit going to games and it would not matter, Iowa simply cannot buy out Ferentz's contract. Ferentz can do whatever he wants with the program and there is nothing the AD can do about it.

The ONLY thing that Iowa fans can hope for is that the king decides to do things a little differently and changes his coaching style somewhat and folks, that ain't about to happen.
 

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